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 Post subject: Sharper Debate - 6/28
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:32 am 
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The full logs of the debate we held today concerning Sharper and his mission to Noloben can be found at the DRC forum here: http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?t=2365


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:37 am 
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How are we (well, alright, NOT me, but I mean you guys who I will be soon joining) involved in the war? I thought wars were fought with spears, at the least, not by standing around and yelling "SHARPER YOU NEED MEDS"

?

That said, thank you for the log.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:42 am 
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I just meant that in the sense that the Bahro killed Wheely, and so we're involved instead of just spectators in a Bahro Civil War.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:46 am 
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Well, that assumes that Wheely was "one of us" (nope), and that we can truly be involved. Again, if there's a war with the Bahro, you're really just going to spectate (at best). It's probably going to come down to trying to convince Sharper not to go apes, paint himself with camouflage and run into the jungle with assault rifles akimbo, bayonets fixed. Of course, as far as we're concerned the result would be "oh, Sharper's missing for some reason." Then we'd stand about some more.

I'm not trying to belittle what you're doing and talking about, which is great; my comment is about how the story is being presented.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:49 am 
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Well, we're involved in the deliberation and discussion end of things. Our opinions affect what the DRC does; we've seen this many times. If the Bahro have it in for us, yes, maybe we won't be involved in actively fighting them, if that's what you're noting, but we'll be involved in talking about how to defend ourselves, etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:19 am 
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Pryftan wrote:
Well, we're involved in the deliberation and discussion end of things. Our opinions affect what the DRC does; we've seen this many times.

I know, but it's significantly less than a lot of us had hoped for.

Quote:
If the Bahro have it in for us, yes, maybe we won't be involved in actively fighting them, if that's what you're noting, but we'll be involved in talking about how to defend ourselves, etc.

Which is the same as posting on a Forum. Of course, doing it in-Cavern just means that you also have to deal with chat scroll (although in-game voice is a great thing). But still, where's the feeling of danger - I don't see the wisdom in bringing up situations where there supposedly could be harm to the explorers because obviously there won't be. We've had a discussion elsewhere about whether it's part of the Cyan Way to show violence onscreen, but everything I know about Uru indicates that it's not designed for that. You can't kill off the player and say "oops, time to start over, but just keep all your memories and pretend you're not yourself but...a clone." See? No real tension there (and who joined up for a tense game anyway?)

Talking about how to defend ourselves - that reminds me of Morrowind. "Tell me where to put the house" is the latest quest I tried out in the game's last expansion, Bloodmoon. It's crap, but sadly it's still more involved - and responsive - than what we have here. Everything gets filtered through a sieve twenty times over and we only stop talking when the change actually happens - and I'm not even aware we have come up with a coherent, widely accepted course of action and had time to consider it thoroughly and bring it up to the folks at Cyan and say "here, this is our final considered request." They're on a schedule and so the discussion is at least half people trying to keep abreast of a quickly moving situation.

Anyway, thanks for not yelling at me for the threadjack, although it would've been warranted :p


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:07 am 
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For those that really, really hate having to go to other sites to see logs, and also hate unformatted logs:

[spoiler]
(06/29 02:11:39) Chat.log started...
(06/29 02:12:18) Serephina: okay I' m thinking like a poliitcal debate , each gets a question then a chance to replyy to the others' respnse
(06/29 02:12:38) Pryftan: we're in the auditorium, everyone
(06/29 02:13:04) Vormaen: Auditorium
(06/29 02:13:13) Kaelri: Alright... obviously, timed responses don't really work with text chat, so will you limit responses to, perhaps, the length allowed in a single message?
(06/29 02:13:33) Pryftan: That works.
(06/29 02:13:43) Serephina nods her head
(06/29 02:13:44) Frisky Badger: so what is being debated?
(06/29 02:14:08) Pryftan: If we can, I think we should have say, two messages worth of an openign statement each
(06/29 02:14:16) Pryftan: First picked by a coin toss or something
(06/29 02:14:19) Frisky Badger: Coke vs. Pepsi?
(06/29 02:14:32) Fell the Librarian offers to toss a coin
(06/29 02:14:35) Atheni33 waves to Azia
(06/29 02:14:46) Pryftan: Sharper's mission. Coke/Pepsi is too grand for this scale ;p
(06/29 02:14:47) Serephina: okay Pryftan asked me to moderate and I agreed, thought we could start wiht Pryftan saying why he wanted Vormaen to debate with him and then let Vormaen reply
(06/29 02:14:56) Pryftan: Oh that's fine.
(06/29 02:15:12) Frisky Badger: Ok, Thanks Pryftan (Coke wins in a landslide anyway)
(06/29 02:15:20) Kaelri chuckles.
(06/29 02:15:20) Vormaen: Leave colas out of this one, they stain your teeth anyhow.
(06/29 02:15:31) Serephina: lol vormaen
(06/29 02:15:56) Vormaen: Hola Kedry
(06/29 02:16:05) ireenquench: is this meeting public?
(06/29 02:16:07) Vormaen: Someone have any coffee?
(06/29 02:16:12) Serephina: yes it is ireen
(06/29 02:16:14) Vormaen: yes it's public
(06/29 02:16:16) Time: Yup.
(06/29 02:16:23) Pryftan: Alright.. well, Vormaen is enjoyably impassioned about his cause, namely, that Sharper is foolish and may cause all our doom. He's established himself as the foremost critic of Sharper, even going so far as to be granted a private audience with Laxman.
(06/29 02:16:48) Vormaen: Foremost...wow that is grand.
(06/29 02:17:05) Vormaen: Sorry. Shutting up now.
(06/29 02:17:30) Serephina: Pryftan aside from describing Vormaen, why did you want to debate with him? please stick to the reason
(06/29 02:17:37) Inanna: have a seat, Atheni :)
(06/29 02:17:40) Vormaen: May I make a statement real quick guys?
(06/29 02:17:44) Atheni33: :)
(06/29 02:18:11) Pryftan: Vormaen has a lot of excellent points. But I feel I have responses. And my side is poorly represented in the cavern.
(06/29 02:18:18) Pryftan: Sharper's style drives crowds crazy :P
(06/29 02:18:44) Serephina: Okay, and Vormaen's response?
(06/29 02:18:46) Pryftan: So I want to defend my viewpoint against Vormaen's in a public debate. That's about it.
(06/29 02:19:03) Serephina: Sorry and thanks Pryftan
(06/29 02:19:18) Pryftan nods
(06/29 02:19:25) Vormaen: My point? Let Pry speak on it first and I will respond
(06/29 02:19:54) Vormaen: Or should I began?
(06/29 02:19:55) Pryftan: Would you like to just go to questions then?
(06/29 02:19:56) Serephina: Vormaen, why did you want to debate Pryftan?
(06/29 02:20:11) Serephina: or go ahead as you choose
(06/29 02:20:37) Vormaen: Well, to be honest it was the other way around. If Pry feels he has the need to debate, I am open to it. I just want people to hear.
(06/29 02:20:49) Vormaen: What I feel is true.
(06/29 02:20:57) Vormaen: And to hear others' responses
(06/29 02:21:10) Vormaen: This is after all an open discussion
(06/29 02:21:30) Tai'lahr: I'm late; what's the topic you're debating, please?
(06/29 02:21:39) Pryftan: Sharper.
(06/29 02:21:48) Serephina: TO clarify I meant why you agreed to the debate Vormaen
(06/29 02:22:03) Serephina: and the mission to Noloben
(06/29 02:22:11) Vormaen: I agreed because he was pretty adamant about it.
(06/29 02:22:16) Pryftan: haha
(06/29 02:22:17) ireenquench: maybe you two could just state your positions on sharper, then we could discuss, instead of dancing around right from the start?
(06/29 02:22:30) Vormaen: heh.
(06/29 02:22:35) Vormaen: Pry?
(06/29 02:22:42) Pryftan: Well we're going to do that.. just starting formally ;p
(06/29 02:22:55) Serephina: Is that okay with you two because that was the first question I wanted to ask you two
(06/29 02:23:07) Vormaen: yeah, ok.
(06/29 02:23:12) Pryftan: Yeah that's a fine beginning.
(06/29 02:23:26) Pryftan: Vormaen, you want me to start?
(06/29 02:23:30) Vormaen: Take questions from the audience as well.
(06/29 02:23:36) Vormaen: I just wanna start....
(06/29 02:23:44) Pryftan: Yeah PM Seraphina questions you have
(06/29 02:23:50) Pryftan: Serephina^
(06/29 02:23:51) Serephina: I have a suggestion Vor and Pry, can you type END at the end of your remarks please
(06/29 02:24:09) Keith Hemari sighs
(06/29 02:24:10) Vormaen: By saying that my ideas are mine own and they do not represent the UH hood in any manner....as is usually the case.
(06/29 02:24:25) Ravenclaw: crazy over here
(06/29 02:24:50) Vormaen: Sharper is again taking matters into his own hands.
(06/29 02:25:07) Vormaen: He was given permission to gather intel and no more
(06/29 02:25:38) Vormaen: His need to kill is his own, and I, in my mind, doubt the sincerity of why he is doing it.
(06/29 02:26:27) Vormaen: He has not changed, is still the destructive force he once was, and I feel he needs to be removed from this expidition before he cause ireversible harm to us or others.
(06/29 02:26:31) Vormaen: END
(06/29 02:26:45) Fell the Librarian claps his hands
(06/29 02:26:49) Pryftan: Alright, I'll give an opener.
(06/29 02:26:56) Ravenclaw claps hands
(06/29 02:27:03) Atheni33 claps
(06/29 02:27:04) Serephina: thank you Vormane.. to clairfy pm me with the word Question to be in the queue but not with the question itself
(06/29 02:27:13) Serephina: *Vormaen
(06/29 02:27:31) Vormaen lights a smoke shakenly
(06/29 02:27:45) Serephina: Pryftan your turn
(06/29 02:27:54) Pryftan: Sharper has always talked big and brash. He appears gung ho and forward for everything.
(06/29 02:27:55) Ravenclaw thinks no smoking ic
(06/29 02:28:16) Pryftan: Criticisms to his policies are met with sarcasm and mockery.
(06/29 02:28:18) Time agrees with Ravenclaw... it IS a cave after all. air vents or not.
(06/29 02:28:27) Ghost Girl sigh
(06/29 02:28:59) Pryftan: But I urge everyone here to look past all his offensive words to the core of the matter: the Bahro killed one of our own.
(06/29 02:29:18) Vormaen puts out the smoke aggressively
(06/29 02:29:24) Time cheers
(06/29 02:29:27) Ravenclaw: but he's going after ANY bahro....
(06/29 02:29:32) Rih'ki: Killed 2
(06/29 02:29:32) Pryftan: We know so little about the Bahro. But we know this: they killed one of our own. And we know how to react when that happens.
(06/29 02:29:36) Ravenclaw thanks Vormaen
(06/29 02:29:47) Atheni33: A Bahro ..not The Bahro
(06/29 02:29:52) Pryftan: We don't know for sure; it could still be two
(06/29 02:29:52) Keith Hemari twitches
(06/29 02:30:02) Tai'lahr: Vigilante Justice, eh?
(06/29 02:30:04) Serephina: please hold the comments until after the opening statements thanks
(06/29 02:30:08) Kaelri reminds our guests to PM the moderator, Serephina, if you want to ask a question.
(06/29 02:30:24) Serephina: thx Kaelri
(06/29 02:30:29) Ravenclaw sorry ... gets excited when it comes to protecting the bahro
(06/29 02:30:44) Pryftan: I think I'm going to want to respond to direct questions in order to defend myself..
(06/29 02:30:44) Atheni33 shuts up
(06/29 02:30:51) Fell the Librarian also reminds them to PM word question and they will be added to list
(06/29 02:30:53) Pryftan: So, we should move forward.
(06/29 02:30:56) Pryftan: END.
(06/29 02:30:59) Serephina: Pryftan is that your opening statement?
(06/29 02:31:00) Kachada claps his hands
(06/29 02:31:01) Serephina: thanks
(06/29 02:31:01) Mystified cheers
(06/29 02:31:04) Kaelri nods his head
(06/29 02:31:10) Fell the Librarian claps his hands
(06/29 02:31:33) Rih'ki thanks you very much!
(06/29 02:31:35) Serephina: If you are ready, lets' open it to audience questions Vormaen and Pryftan
(06/29 02:31:40) Pryftan: Alright.
(06/29 02:31:50) H'udd: Question...
(06/29 02:32:00) Serephina: Vormaen is that okay?
(06/29 02:32:07) Vormaen: yeah.
(06/29 02:32:19) Serephina: pm me with the word Question to be in the queue please
(06/29 02:32:30) Serephina: First up is Kaelri
(06/29 02:33:18) Kaelri: It has now been a full month since the death of Wheely Engberg. Since that time, there have been no further sightings of the Bahro, and according to the DRC, their activity has moved out of the cavern, away from areas accessible by explorers. Pryftan, doesn't this imply that the "bad" Bahro, as we call them, do not seem to have an active hostile intent toward us?
(06/29 02:33:50) Vormaen: Ahem......who first?
(06/29 02:33:50) Pryftan: The "bad" Bahro seem to chiefly have an active hostile intent against the "good" Bahro.
(06/29 02:34:04) Pryftan: (I'll go first as it was directed to me, then you can respond)
(06/29 02:34:08) Vormaen: k
(06/29 02:34:14) Adventure Dan: That is adduming that there are bad and good
(06/29 02:34:18) Adventure Dan: Asuming*
(06/29 02:34:33) Adventure Dan: We know little of the bahro
(06/29 02:34:43) Adventure Dan: Who are we to state their culture
(06/29 02:34:48) Adventure Dan: or values
(06/29 02:34:51) Serephina: Please hold that thought Dan so all get their questions asked
(06/29 02:35:02) Pryftan: Sharper told us there was a Bahro civil war going on while he was in Negilhan.
(06/29 02:35:06) Serephina: you are in the queue
(06/29 02:35:19) Adventure Dan: pardon
(06/29 02:35:23) Serephina: no :)
(06/29 02:35:26) Serephina: np
(06/29 02:35:36) Pryftan: If there are Bahro who want to kill us, they can. We know this. They are powerful.
(06/29 02:35:36) Vormaen: Go on Pry
(06/29 02:36:21) Pryftan: We also know Bahro attacked Wheely, Rose, and Sharper. We know there are Bahro who want to kill us. So why don't they? They can link at will.
(06/29 02:36:38) Pryftan: The Bahro Civil War scenario makes perfect sense.
(06/29 02:37:28) Pryftan: So, sorry to be so long, but the answer to your question is that the Bad Bahro are currently fighting the Good Bahro. And I feel the "good Bahro" need our help.
(06/29 02:37:31) Pryftan: That is all.
(06/29 02:37:40) Mystified cheers
(06/29 02:37:49) Serephina: Vormaen?
(06/29 02:38:05) Vormaen: Ahem....I thought this was a debate....hehe.
(06/29 02:38:14) Vormaen: The fact is
(06/29 02:38:35) Vormaen: In Sharper's own words, it has been three weeks......three weeks without incident
(06/29 02:38:48) Migo: Pryft/sit
(06/29 02:38:59) Vormaen: We know nothing of their customs, we have no idea why Wheely and Rosette were attacked.
(06/29 02:39:15) Vormaen: We have no idea why the crack appeared in the first place
(06/29 02:39:39) Vormaen: And we have no idea what happened when those girls touched those Bahro glyphs
(06/29 02:40:32) Vormaen: If there has been no repeat, why the needs to seek them out and kill one of their ranks? Why is there this inherent need to add to the conflict though we are not properly prepared?
(06/29 02:41:12) Vormaen: We do not know a darn thing, yet Sharper has to take this on himself, with or without our sayso, or the DRC's for that matter.
(06/29 02:41:54) Vormaen: We risk everything, and Sharper is acting out without regard to anyone else's safety
(06/29 02:42:05) Vormaen: It's selfish in my eyes.
(06/29 02:42:15) Vormaen: That's it.
(06/29 02:42:20) Kedran Cor: Here, here!
(06/29 02:42:23) Serephina: In the interests of time, I'd like to move to the next question, unless either of you wants to respond to what the other has said?
(06/29 02:42:23) Mystified shakes her head in disagreement
(06/29 02:42:32) Fell the Librarian claps his hands
(06/29 02:42:34) Vormaen: nope.
(06/29 02:42:45) Serephina: Pryftan?
(06/29 02:42:48) Pryftan: We're taking awhile.. lets move forward.
(06/29 02:42:52) Ravenclaw claps hands
(06/29 02:42:57) Kaelri welcomes those who just arrived to the Unbound Hearts' Bevin. If you wish to ask a question to the debate participants, Vormaen and Pryftan, please PM our moderator, Serephina, with the word "question" to be added to the queue.
(06/29 02:42:59) Serephina: Ghsot Girl you are up
(06/29 02:43:05) Serephina: Ghost Girl :)
(06/29 02:43:12) Ghost Girl: My question is why was Sharper allowed to go alone in the first place? Isn't the whole point to learn as much as possible, to go in a group without as much bias? This is to both of you.
(06/29 02:43:32) Serephina: Vormaen take the first reply please
(06/29 02:43:43) Vormaen: Me personally?
(06/29 02:43:53) Vormaen: I believe they are afraid...the DRC
(06/29 02:44:41) Vormaen: Sharper is the only one equipped to defend himself. No matter what he has in mind, the DRC are scientists, not warriors or hunters or scouts.
(06/29 02:45:30) Vormaen: It would be folly to step into a warzone unprepared. I must remind you this is speculation, we are not affiliated with the DRC.
(06/29 02:45:56) Vormaen: I don't think it's the right idea though. Sharper is unstable. DONE.
(06/29 02:46:01) Ravenclaw: down in front
(06/29 02:46:09) Serephina: Pryftan
(06/29 02:46:57) Pryftan: I don't know if there's much disagreement on this question. Sharper is definitely well-equipped.
(06/29 02:47:10) Curty: Hey:)
(06/29 02:47:38) Serephina: new arrivals please pm me with word Question if want to be in the queue
(06/29 02:47:39) Pryftan: He's also ridiculously patient, which people seem to forget. If you read his account of Negilhan, he can wait for hours and hours, simply watching.
(06/29 02:47:56) Vormaen: I disagree, but go on.
(06/29 02:48:26) Pryftan: The DRC know he's not going to rush in there, guns blazing. They wouldn't still send him if they thought his trip would cause all our deaths, or something.
(06/29 02:49:26) Pryftan: Again, Sharper talks big. His "I will kill a Bahro!!" was him puffing himself up a little. It isn't to be taken as a sign of madness, which we can see from his account of Negilhan.
(06/29 02:49:35) JWPlatt: Well, hi to you too. ;)
(06/29 02:49:51) Pryftan: So, I think he was allowed to go because the DRC trust him more than we as explorers do.
(06/29 02:49:55) Pryftan: END.
(06/29 02:50:10) Curty: hey Vormaen :)
(06/29 02:50:10) Serephina: Vormaen a response?
(06/29 02:50:15) Fell the Librarian reminds new arrivals to PM Serephina with the word question and you'll be added to the queue.
(06/29 02:50:16) Vormaen: May I respond?
(06/29 02:50:21) Serephina: yes
(06/29 02:50:21) Vormaen: Hey Curty
(06/29 02:50:23) JWPlatt: Oh. Sorry folks. It must be my ghost. I'm in the auditorium.
(06/29 02:51:00) Vormaen: I do not believe Sharper's patience as a hunter translates to his patience as a DRC member or explorer.
(06/29 02:51:24) Vormaen: Hunting is like an instinct. You have to have the skill to wait.
(06/29 02:51:42) La'Fitte: it comes from experience
(06/29 02:51:47) Vormaen: But in matters such as these, I do not doubt nor deny what Sharper says is LAW in his mind
(06/29 02:52:04) Vormaen: When he says he's going to do something, he does it. Period.
(06/29 02:52:11) Kedran Cor nods his head
(06/29 02:52:17) Vormaen: No matter who it hurts, no matter who it effects.
(06/29 02:52:31) Ravenclaw nods
(06/29 02:52:38) La'Fitte: he's a man with some cahones
(06/29 02:52:45) Vormaen: He's not much different from me, but what sets us apart is my love and respect for those around me.
(06/29 02:52:46) Adventure Dan raises his fist in agreement
(06/29 02:52:48) Ravenclaw starts to laugh
(06/29 02:52:57) Curty: he he he
(06/29 02:53:04) Vormaen: He does not share that sentiment. DONE.
(06/29 02:53:28) Serephina: Pryftan a response then to the next Q?
(06/29 02:53:32) Pryftan: Alright.
(06/29 02:54:10) Pryftan: I don't have much to say, Vormaen. Just this: Don't confuse drive and willpower with selfishness.
(06/29 02:54:18) Vormaen twitches uncontrollably
(06/29 02:54:58) Pryftan: Sharper's willpower is certainly intense. But he's not doing it simply because he wants to. Or because it's fun. He's doing it for Wheely. For Rose. For Phil.
(06/29 02:55:13) Mystified agrees
(06/29 02:55:15) Ravenclaw: smile
(06/29 02:55:17) Vormaen: Willpower......he's like an egg with legs running into a brick wall.
(06/29 02:55:32) Ravenclaw starts to laugh
(06/29 02:55:40) Vormaen: sorry.
(06/29 02:55:45) Serephina: np
(06/29 02:56:04) La'Fitte: This is Sharper's job, and he's dedicated to the job. He's not just doing it for wheely and Rose. He's doing it because he's dedicated to the restoration and cares of our safety.
(06/29 02:56:12) Fell the Librarian reminds new arrivals to hold your questions until called upon. If you have a question please PM Serephina with the word "Question" and you will be added to the queue
(06/29 02:56:19) Pryftan: Amusing visual. ;P And maybe that is what will happen. But we are discussing intention. And Sharper's running into what could be his brick wall for all of us.
(06/29 02:56:27) Vormaen shakes his head
(06/29 02:56:47) Ash Sidious: PORK
(06/29 02:56:48) Pryftan: I don't want to make you twitch anymore, lest we lose all semblence of civilized debate :P So: END.
(06/29 02:57:11) Vormaen: Pry.......this is the same man who told us to break down barriers to meet his own needs.
(06/29 02:57:17) Vormaen: He does NOT care about us.
(06/29 02:57:30) Ash Sidious: And you said this was real
(06/29 02:57:38) Ash Sidious: Hmmmm
(06/29 02:57:39) Vormaen: His own agenda, his own rules
(06/29 02:57:48) Vormaen: but next question.
(06/29 02:57:57) Pryftan: Vormaen, I picked you to debate because you were impassioned, and I'm glad you are fighting me so thoroughly. But please, lets try to stay within these boundaries of discussion.
(06/29 02:58:08) Vormaen: I am.
(06/29 02:58:21) Serephina: Pryftan lets go to the next question please
(06/29 02:58:24) Vormaen: Next?
(06/29 02:58:26) Pryftan: Yes, lets.
(06/29 02:58:30) Serephina: Keith Hemari
(06/29 02:58:39) Keith Hemari: thank you
(06/29 02:59:08) Keith Hemari: this is directed at Pryftan...
(06/29 02:59:21) Pryftan: Oh boy. =)
(06/29 02:59:39) Vormaen nods at Keith
(06/29 02:59:54) Keith Hemari: In your opening remarks, you mentioned the need to react to the attack on those unfortunate girls, am I right?
(06/29 03:00:22) Pryftan: Well that's just a facet of my argument. But yes, I feel a response is necessary.
(06/29 03:00:50) Kachada agrees
(06/29 03:01:18) Keith Hemari: Then let me ask you, are you familiar with the situation currently transpiring in the middle-east, up on the surface? Particularly that of the Paelistine/Israeli conflic?
(06/29 03:01:28) Vormaen: Oh boy....
(06/29 03:01:33) DukeMan: oh, for the love of...
(06/29 03:01:38) Mystified: let's leave surface OUT of this
(06/29 03:01:40) Mystified: please
(06/29 03:01:41) Eirerogue: and that applies here... how?
(06/29 03:01:42) Frisky Badger: Come on
(06/29 03:01:43) Keith Hemari: No
(06/29 03:01:46) Pryftan: Oh dear.. yes I am Keith, but..
(06/29 03:01:47) Vormaen: guys...
(06/29 03:01:48) Ghost Girl oy.
(06/29 03:01:52) Fell the Librarian reminds new arrivals to hold your questions until called upon. If you have a question PM Serephina with the word "question" and you will be added to the queue.
(06/29 03:01:58) Atheni33 shakes her head
(06/29 03:01:59) Serephina: let's keep this focused people please :)
(06/29 03:02:15) Vormaen: what is the point Keith?
(06/29 03:02:31) Keith Hemari: The need to 'react' has driven this conflict for years
(06/29 03:02:43) Vormaen: ok.
(06/29 03:02:45) Pryftan: You speak of escalation.
(06/29 03:02:45) La'Fitte: The need to relalitate
(06/29 03:02:47) Vormaen: Pry?
(06/29 03:03:00) Keith Hemari: some extreemist takes matters into their own hands, then the other side retaliates
(06/29 03:03:10) Keith Hemari: and then the other side
(06/29 03:03:23) Ghost Girl thinks it's about Ishmeal and Isaiac, not Bahro and Human.
(06/29 03:03:40) Serephina: Keith did you have a specific question about the bahro and Sharper?
(06/29 03:03:42) Vormaen: I think what he's getting to is an unending back and forth conflict
(06/29 03:03:55) Keith Hemari: Yes, Vormaen
(06/29 03:04:03) Adventure Dan nods his head
(06/29 03:04:07) Pryftan: The fear of escalation is real. But we have options of diplomacy on the surface we don't have here. We don't know eachother's languages ;P
(06/29 03:04:17) Pryftan: And therefore I would argue the analogy is flawed.
(06/29 03:04:18) La'Fitte: no, vormean was accusing sharper of having something to do iwth phils death
(06/29 03:04:21) La'Fitte: sry
(06/29 03:04:35) Serephina: LaFitte thanks
(06/29 03:04:36) Vormaen: hmmmm.
(06/29 03:05:03) Pryftan: With that, I'll let Vormaen tell you all how we can try to contact with the Bahro, and respond when he's done.
(06/29 03:05:07) Pryftan: END.
(06/29 03:05:32) Vormaen: Well. Don't look to me for all the answers, I don't have them all.
(06/29 03:05:52) Keith Hemari shakes his head
(06/29 03:05:52) Serephina: Let's move to the next question unless you have a comment Vormaen?
(06/29 03:06:00) Vormaen: There is heat rising from the caverns. People want blood, eye for an eye stuff.
(06/29 03:06:06) Ash Sidious yawns
(06/29 03:06:17) Vormaen: But what works on the surface does NOT work here
(06/29 03:06:21) Adijike: That is what gets in trouble
(06/29 03:06:32) Keith Hemari: Not that it works on the surface either
(06/29 03:06:39) Adijike: Never did
(06/29 03:06:42) peni thinks it is a huge mistake
(06/29 03:06:43) Ravenclaw: not blood ...justice
(06/29 03:06:53) Pryftan: Please, lets not get into a political discussion gentlemen :P
(06/29 03:06:56) Vormaen: You grow tired of the discussions but the fact it a response is needed, not just in the way some want.
(06/29 03:06:57) Keith Hemari: Who are we to deal out death and justice!
(06/29 03:07:03) Ash Sidious thinks people speculate too much
(06/29 03:07:04) Vormaen: We are not
(06/29 03:07:14) Adventure Dan is remindsed of the Munich olympics
(06/29 03:07:20) Fell the Librarian reminds new arrivals to hold your questions until called upon. If you have a question PM Serephina with the word "question" and you will be added to the queue.
(06/29 03:07:25) Vormaen: Ash, do you have the answers?
(06/29 03:07:37) Vormaen: Speculation is all we have right now
(06/29 03:07:40) Serephina: please stop folks for the purpose of the debate going forward
(06/29 03:07:45) Ash Sidious: You need to look at facts and stick with them
(06/29 03:07:52) Vormaen: WHAT FACTS?
(06/29 03:08:00) Serephina: Ash you are in the queue
(06/29 03:08:01) Vormaen: NAME ME ONE!
(06/29 03:08:09) Kaelri: Vor.
(06/29 03:08:10) Ash Sidious: No one actually has seen a bahro attack a human
(06/29 03:08:17) Pryftan: Ash, please
(06/29 03:08:22) Vormaen: All we have are two little girls dead and a race beyond our limits
(06/29 03:08:25) Pryftan: We need to be civilized.
(06/29 03:08:29) Serephina: Vormaen please this is a debate not a fight
(06/29 03:08:50) Vormaen: Sorry folks, I am on empty here...I have not slept in almost a month.........
(06/29 03:08:56) Vormaen: on and off
(06/29 03:09:03) Vormaen: I knew this was a bad idea
(06/29 03:09:09) Vormaen: anyhow
(06/29 03:09:13) Fell the Librarian: ash, an open debate may be available at a later date
(06/29 03:09:15) Serephina: I understand Vor and I'm glad you came here
(06/29 03:09:23) Keith Hemari digs his pipe from his pocket and fidgets nervously with it
(06/29 03:09:24) Vormaen: We do not know why or how or what.
(06/29 03:09:25) Fell the Librarian claps his hands
(06/29 03:09:27) Ghost Girl suggests Ambien.
(06/29 03:09:48) Serephina: next question is from Adventure Dan if we may
(06/29 03:09:56) Fell the Librarian claps his hands
(06/29 03:09:58) Adventure Dan: A pleasure
(06/29 03:10:02) Pryftan: Sure.
(06/29 03:10:04) Vormaen: But it's possible we infringed on their beliefs or sacred ground or whatever. I am not saying it's Wheely's fault
(06/29 03:10:12) sachiko: i just got here
(06/29 03:10:26) Adventure Dan: So far I have heard about "Good and bad" bahro
(06/29 03:10:39) Adventure Dan: That there was a civil war between them
(06/29 03:10:44) sachiko: Ty
(06/29 03:10:47) Adventure Dan: and the comment
(06/29 03:10:49) Vormaen: But a child should not be running around without and adult watching, and the Bahreo probably do not distinguish us from each other
(06/29 03:10:56) Adventure Dan: "Perfect sense"
(06/29 03:11:11) Adventure Dan: What grounds do we base that on
(06/29 03:11:20) Adventure Dan: The testimonials aof a mere few
(06/29 03:11:24) Vormaen: That's all. I do not have the answers
(06/29 03:11:29) Vormaen: an.
(06/29 03:11:31) Adventure Dan: A few people that we barely know
(06/29 03:11:32) Vormaen: dan
(06/29 03:11:41) Ravenclaw claps
(06/29 03:11:48) Vormaen: I still have my hope
(06/29 03:11:49) Adventure Dan: But we do kn ow much abouit the one with a vendeta
(06/29 03:11:54) Esahc: woot i just finished yeeshas quest!
(06/29 03:11:56) Adventure Dan: I have heard that..
(06/29 03:11:57) Vormaen: No.
(06/29 03:11:57) Serephina: DAn please rephrase that as a one statement question
(06/29 03:12:04) Fell the Librarian: please rephase your question in one statment dan
(06/29 03:12:07) Adventure Dan: "WHe is doing it for the ons that died"
(06/29 03:12:25) Adventure Dan: When I here that I am reminded of the reichstag fire
(06/29 03:12:33) Adventure Dan: To spare the details
(06/29 03:12:33) Vormaen: What?
(06/29 03:12:51) Pryftan: Dan, your question seems directed at me, but you're invoking Nazis or something like that, so I'm having trouble following =/
(06/29 03:13:01) Fell the Librarian: dan, your question is too difficult to follow in many small statements
(06/29 03:13:07) Serephina: Dan what is the questtion and who is it for?
(06/29 03:13:18) Adventure Dan: Itwas a terrosist attack that instigated the death of many on the grounds that one group commited such an act
(06/29 03:13:28) Vormaen fiddles with his box of cigarettes
(06/29 03:13:33) Adventure Dan: Who are we to say that it was in fact the Bahro
(06/29 03:13:37) Keith Hemari nods
(06/29 03:13:43) Adventure Dan: and that they have what we call
(06/29 03:13:59) Adventure Dan: a factions that include "Good and Bad"
(06/29 03:14:05) Fell the Librarian: Dan? do you have a question?
(06/29 03:14:06) Adventure Dan: we know so little of them
(06/29 03:14:10) Vormaen: Dan, maybe you should be here in my place.....you seem to know what is on your mind.
(06/29 03:14:11) Adventure Dan: or their culture
(06/29 03:14:16) Adventure Dan: Pry, go
(06/29 03:14:23) Pryftan: ..go?
(06/29 03:14:35) La'Fitte: i believe thats what sharpers trip is for, recon.
(06/29 03:14:39) Adventure Dan: respond?
(06/29 03:14:50) Kedran Cor is a bit puzzled...
(06/29 03:14:51) Serephina: Make a response if you have one Pryftan or Vormaen
(06/29 03:14:56) Pryftan: Look Dan, you're doing what Keith did and making an analogy to surface events
(06/29 03:14:57) Serephina: or both
(06/29 03:15:04) Pryftan: And as I said any such analogy has no place here.
(06/29 03:15:06) Adventure Dan: your point
(06/29 03:15:15) Adventure Dan: so is the concept of Good and Bad
(06/29 03:15:18) Vormaen: I have said what I need to on that. We do not know if they felt wronged somehow
(06/29 03:15:20) Adventure Dan: they are human concepts
(06/29 03:15:32) Adventure Dan: yet we apply them to analien force
(06/29 03:15:32) JWPlatt: Laterz!
(06/29 03:15:34) La'Fitte yawns
(06/29 03:15:40) Pryftan: They are sentient being concepts. Do you not believe the Bahro are sentient?
(06/29 03:15:44) La'Fitte: smell ya later
(06/29 03:16:00) Vormaen: Seems some don't take this seriously.
(06/29 03:16:00) Adventure Dan: But they are vastly different when compaired to us
(06/29 03:16:05) Serephina: One more statement each and then we need to go to the next question because there is along queue
(06/29 03:16:33) Pryftan: So? Good and bad are sentient concepts. Again. We really need to move on, Dan
(06/29 03:16:38) Keith Hemari chews on his pipe-stem
(06/29 03:16:39) Pryftan: Vormaen, anything to say?
(06/29 03:16:47) Vormaen: No. Move on.
(06/29 03:16:51) Adventure Dan: Human concepts, quit dodging
(06/29 03:17:06) Keith Hemari: Move on... move on... what good is a debate that doesn't?
(06/29 03:17:10) Serephina: Next q is from Frisky Badger
(06/29 03:17:19) Pryftan: I'm not dodging, I'm sticking to the rules.
(06/29 03:17:20) Vormaen: You base this on some ill concept that we understand them
(06/29 03:17:30) Adventure Dan: mozel tov!
(06/29 03:17:45) Frisky Badger: Are you both operating under the assumption that the DRC is lying, that Sharper's trip is only about revenge and not gathering info?
(06/29 03:17:52) Vormaen: Is that funny?
(06/29 03:17:56) Adventure Dan: rules, rules of ill Blase' assumptions
(06/29 03:18:09) Vormaen: Are you mocking my Jewish heritage? Please let's move on.
(06/29 03:18:10) Fell the Librarian reminds dan that an free for all debate may be available at a different time.
(06/29 03:18:19) Serephina: Vormaen and then Pryftan please respond to Frisky
(06/29 03:18:30) Vormaen: The DRC is not lying.
(06/29 03:18:39) Ravenclaw: no need for thast type of comversation
(06/29 03:18:41) Vormaen: And Sharper IS out for revenge.
(06/29 03:18:56) Ravenclaw: heritage is not the issue
(06/29 03:19:01) Frisky Badger: those statements kind of contradict each other
(06/29 03:19:15) Vormaen: Though I believe for the wrong reasons.
(06/29 03:19:20) Vormaen: What?
(06/29 03:19:22) Frisky Badger: Sharper has said he will only kill in self defense, either you believe that or you don't
(06/29 03:19:25) Vormaen: How?
(06/29 03:19:26) Fell the Librarian wants frisky to give vor a chance to finish
(06/29 03:19:31) Vormaen: I don't
(06/29 03:19:39) Vormaen: He has a hunter's heart and mind
(06/29 03:19:44) Vormaen: This is a hunt to him
(06/29 03:19:48) Frisky Badger: Then you think he has tricked the entire DRC?
(06/29 03:19:56) Frisky Badger: Or do you think they don't care?
(06/29 03:19:57) ~~meadow~~: you dont know if its a hunt to him
(06/29 03:20:00) ~~meadow~~: thats speculation
(06/29 03:20:01) Vormaen: Hence my discussion with Laxman
(06/29 03:20:13) Vormaen: Oh, they care.
(06/29 03:20:14) ~~meadow~~: was he talking out his ***** too
(06/29 03:20:23) Ravenclaw: I've heard he's out to kill one indiscrimately
(06/29 03:20:24) Vormaen says DOH!
(06/29 03:20:24) Fell the Librarian reminds newcomers to hold their questions until called upon
(06/29 03:20:27) Serephina: please let Vormaen answer the question and meadow language
(06/29 03:20:31) Kaelri would like to remind our guests to PM our moderator, Serephina, if you'd like to raise a point for debate.
(06/29 03:20:37) ~~meadow~~: that wasnt me
(06/29 03:20:39) Frisky Badger: so, they care, but they have authorized him to go kill whatever he wants
(06/29 03:20:42) Ravenclaw: sorry agian Serephina
(06/29 03:20:45) Serephina: thanks Kaelri
(06/29 03:20:47) Vormaen: No.
(06/29 03:21:05) Serephina: hold on Vormaen
(06/29 03:21:06) Vormaen: They want recon. Sharper wants more if possible. From his mouth
(06/29 03:21:10) Vormaen: ok
(06/29 03:21:16) Serephina: Thanks
(06/29 03:21:27) Serephina: FRisky, have you finished your question?
(06/29 03:21:36) Frisky Badger: I guess....
(06/29 03:21:48) Serephina: okay Vor please go on
(06/29 03:22:12) Vormaen: Frisky, I don't know what you want from me, but what I want is the promised safety of the explorers.
(06/29 03:22:26) Ravenclaw says HERE HERE!!
(06/29 03:22:30) Vormaen: I have dealt with Sharper before i have my reasons for not trusting him.
(06/29 03:22:51) Vormaen: He has shown no respect for us or for the restoration
(06/29 03:23:00) Vormaen: People look up to him...fine
(06/29 03:23:09) Vormaen: He has a certain quality.
(06/29 03:23:27) Vormaen: If he had that respect...for others, I think he could lead us to what we desire
(06/29 03:24:00) Vormaen: But he has ALWAYS acted out of selfishness, and I am sorry but I cannot trust him.
(06/29 03:24:13) Vormaen: Phil was a prime example.
(06/29 03:24:24) Vormaen: But that is another time, another discussion
(06/29 03:24:29) Vormaen: Pry?
(06/29 03:24:42) Pryftan: To get back to your question, Frisky, I don't think the DRC are blind to Sharper's alterior plans. They know him well enough.
(06/29 03:24:42) Serephina: go ahead Pry
(06/29 03:24:52) Vormaen: Yes.
(06/29 03:25:15) Pryftan: They just really don't want to think about it, I suspect. They'd rather ignore the Bahro problem, which isn't surprising. This is the DRC.
(06/29 03:25:41) Pryftan: As for Sharper, I would argue he has more of a "quality" for pissing people off, but that's neither here nor there..
(06/29 03:25:43) Vormaen collapses to the floor from exhaustion
(06/29 03:25:54) Vormaen: whew
(06/29 03:26:32) Serephina: you want to finish this later Vormaen? i know you are tired
(06/29 03:26:36) Serephina: :)
(06/29 03:26:46) Vormaen: No, but maybe Kaelri can continue for me in a bit
(06/29 03:26:59) Serephina: Kaelri?
(06/29 03:27:01) Vormaen: In fact
(06/29 03:27:13) Vormaen: Kaelri, all I ask is tell them....tell them my hope
(06/29 03:27:16) Eirerogue: Agendas... People with agendas seem to steer public sentiment fairly regularly. Do we have proof that the bahro killed anyone? Or hearsay.. Coincidence? Circumstantial evidence? Same with Sharper. He killed Shroomie. We know that. But I think his journey may have been different than ours. He may have learned something. I have a hunter's heart, Vormaen and I haven't killed anyone in 30 years... we know the difference between indifferent killing, remorse, and SOP.
(06/29 03:27:30) Serephina: hey Eire you need to wait please
(06/29 03:27:33) Vormaen: As do I
(06/29 03:27:39) Pryftan: o.o;
(06/29 03:27:40) Eirerogue: Tried that... waited 30 minutes...
(06/29 03:27:40) Serephina: you are in the queue
(06/29 03:27:41) Vormaen: I am ex military
(06/29 03:27:55) Serephina: I know but there are others ahead of you Eire
(06/29 03:27:55) Vormaen: We're not making excuses....
(06/29 03:28:10) Vormaen: Kaelri.....I have to rest.....can you?
(06/29 03:28:13) Pryftan: Eire we will get to you. It's just hard.. people keep going out of turn and speaking for very long.
(06/29 03:28:14) Ravenclaw: they will get to everyone...
(06/29 03:28:23) Pryftan: Kaelri, would you like to take over for Vormaen?
(06/29 03:28:23) Vormaen: I am sorry Pry.
(06/29 03:28:36) Kaelri: I'm willing, I suppose. But I'd want consent from both our moderator and your opponent.
(06/29 03:28:38) Pryftan: It's alright, Vormaen. I don't mind you speaking, you were meant to.
(06/29 03:28:40) Serephina: Let us do one reply to a question now it is hard as there is a lot to say
(06/29 03:28:51) Vormaen: Just remember this folks, there may be another way.....Kaelri will tell you.....
(06/29 03:28:59) Serephina: It is okay with me Kaelri
(06/29 03:29:12) Pryftan: It is just that "other way" I have been eager to speak against..
(06/29 03:29:13) Fell the Librarian reminds everyone to keep your questions until you are called upon.
(06/29 03:29:22) Pryftan: So I am fine with Kaelri taking over.
(06/29 03:29:31) Vormaen: Sorry folks
(06/29 03:29:37) Fell the Librarian claps his hands
(06/29 03:29:41) Vormaen: Shorah....thanks kaelri
(06/29 03:29:43) Pryftan: Thank you Vormaen. Go get some sleep =)
(06/29 03:29:50) Kaelri: I'll speak the truth as I see it, Vormaen. For the most part, I believe we're on the same side. I hope I don't disappoint you.
(06/29 03:29:53) Keith Hemari claps his hands for Vormaen
(06/29 03:29:53) Vormaen bows
(06/29 03:29:53) Vormaen: take care....I need rest
(06/29 03:29:56) Serephina: thanks Vormaen
(06/29 03:29:58) Kaelri claps his hands
(06/29 03:30:00) Pryftan claps his hands
(06/29 03:30:00) Vormaen waves hello
(06/29 03:30:02) Serephina claps her hands
(06/29 03:30:03) Maire claps her hands
(06/29 03:30:04) Atheni33 claps
(06/29 03:30:07) Vormaen: You have all done well.
(06/29 03:30:09) ~~meadow~~ claps her hands
(06/29 03:30:09) Rih'ki claps his hands
(06/29 03:30:15) Dr. Burne claps his hands
(06/29 03:30:20) Vormaen: Shabbat Shalom Dan
(06/29 03:30:22) Adventure Dan raises his fist
(06/29 03:30:25) Vormaen: since I'll miss it
(06/29 03:30:33) Adventure Dan: It's Friday?
(06/29 03:30:36) Kedran Cor claps his hands
(06/29 03:30:40) Vormaen: almost lol
(06/29 03:30:45) Serephina: Kaelri welcome
(06/29 03:30:47) Adventure Dan: lol
(06/29 03:30:48) Eirerogue shrugs in disgust.
(06/29 03:30:50) Kaelri: Thank you.
(06/29 03:30:50) Adventure Dan: peace
(06/29 03:30:56) Serephina: next Q is from Uileag
(06/29 03:31:22) Vormaen: post the log on the DRC forums please
(06/29 03:31:32) Serephina: yes Vormaen
(06/29 03:31:35) Pryftan: I will.
(06/29 03:31:37) Kaelri nods his head
(06/29 03:31:45) Serephina: Uileag?
(06/29 03:31:47) Uileag: I just want some clarity, here. We've heard from a number of people now (including Sharper) that Bahro killed Rose and Wheely. And it seems that the position is that this is fact. Is it? Are we certain to absolute about that?
(06/29 03:32:06) Serephina: Pryftan then Kaelri
(06/29 03:32:27) Pryftan: I believe it was Cate who first said for sure that "The Bahro did it."
(06/29 03:32:51) Pryftan: Then later, Kodoma said he thought, unofficially, but he believed the Bahro also caused the collapse that killed Rose.
(06/29 03:33:46) Pryftan: We know the Bahro killed Wheely, and that her death was horrible. Messy. Worse than the bodies in Negilhan killed by Bahro.
(06/29 03:33:59) Pryftan: We're not positive about Rose but it is likely the Bahro killed her as well.
(06/29 03:34:01) Pryftan: END.
(06/29 03:34:13) Serephina: Kaelri
(06/29 03:34:52) Kaelri: It does seem most likely that Wheely was murdered by the Bahro in that cave. For one thing, there's no other suspect. For another, it's... I hate to be macabre, but it's consistent with what was done to the Bahro's other... prey... on Negilahn.
(06/29 03:35:04) Kaelri: What I dispute, though, is what you're readin into that fact.
(06/29 03:35:15) Kaelri: *reading
(06/29 03:35:43) Uileag: I myself haven't read anything into it. It's what we've been told.
(06/29 03:35:46) Kaelri: Assuming the Bahro did murder Wheely, we still don't have the slightest idea *why* it was done, aside from a cryptic ranting of the name "Noloben."
(06/29 03:35:59) Kaelri: We don't know if the Bahro was acting of its own free will.
(06/29 03:36:05) Atheni33 nods
(06/29 03:36:14) Kaelri: We don't know if it was doing it on behalf of whatever Bahro "faction" it's a part of, whether the good or the bad.
(06/29 03:36:24) Kaelri: We don't know whether it was some kind of cataclysmic accident.
(06/29 03:36:24) Pryftan bites his tounge
(06/29 03:36:27) Adventure Dan agrees
(06/29 03:36:41) Pryftan can also spell tongue
(06/29 03:37:03) Kaelri: And most importantly, we don't know if striking back against the Bahro - any Bahro - will quell the crisis, or make things much, much worse.
(06/29 03:37:14) Kaelri: But if human history is any indicator, it's the second that we can expect.
(06/29 03:37:15) Kaelri: End.
(06/29 03:37:21) Fell the Librarian reminds newcomers to hold your questions until called up by our Moderator Serephina. If you have a question PM her the word "question"and you will be added to the queue
(06/29 03:37:27) Uileag: Thank you.
(06/29 03:37:31) Keith Hemari: *glaces at his KI* I beg your pardon, everyone, but I must leave. I am being called for... I apologize for my poor behavior tonight.
(06/29 03:37:34) Pryftan: May I respond, or do we want to try and get through more questions?
(06/29 03:37:44) Pryftan: Thanks for coming, Keith
(06/29 03:37:50) Kaelri: Thank you indeed, Keith.
(06/29 03:37:50) Serephina: I know you want to respond Pry can we move on or did you have a bried reply?
(06/29 03:37:50) Ravenclaw chugs down some cooling water
(06/29 03:37:53) Serephina: brief
(06/29 03:37:55) Pryftan: Okay brief
(06/29 03:37:58) Keith Hemari nods
(06/29 03:38:07) Serephina: ty
(06/29 03:38:08) Pryftan: We do know they were acting of their free will; the DRC said Myst V was accurate.
(06/29 03:38:17) Pryftan: The Bahro are free. That is all. END.
(06/29 03:38:30) Kaelri: May I respond, just as briefly?
(06/29 03:38:36) Serephina: Kaelri yes
(06/29 03:39:15) Kaelri: I believe you're referring to a statement from Richard A. Watson. In my opinion, that statement was cryptic. Moreover, I have not heard a statement on the subject from an actual DRC member.
(06/29 03:39:39) Pryftan: No, they recently confirmed all of it. I asked them myself.
(06/29 03:39:43) Pryftan: Sorry to speak out of turn.
(06/29 03:39:52) Pryftan: But there are logs available.
(06/29 03:39:59) Kaelri: My mistake, then.
(06/29 03:40:04) Serephina: thank you both for working with the time and number of questions that make it hard to spend much time on all these questions :)
(06/29 03:40:14) Pryftan: Yeah, lets move on.
(06/29 03:40:17) Kaelri nods his head
(06/29 03:40:18) Fell the Librarian claps his hands
(06/29 03:40:26) Serephina: Migo next Q
(06/29 03:40:29) Migo: So you both agree that a plan to deal with the bahroYour basic disagreement is Sharper's suitability for the mission of fact finding? and your agreement is on the FEAR of action or inaction...or appropriateness/consequences?
(06/29 03:40:43) Serephina: Kaelri then Pry
(06/29 03:40:54) Migo: and my question is....Sharper is gone?
(06/29 03:41:09) Mystified laughs
(06/29 03:41:24) Pryftan coughs
(06/29 03:41:26) Migo: Then it is done, and we shall see
(06/29 03:41:46) Kaelri: I don't think Sharper's inherently unsuitable... I think that the plan of action he declared a few days ago was ridiculous, foolish, narrow-minded and dangerous. But I suppose I have some faith that he can be made to see reason.
(06/29 03:42:03) Adventure Dan agrees
(06/29 03:42:09) Ravenclaw nods head
(06/29 03:42:15) Adventure Dan cheers
(06/29 03:42:28) Kaelri: I don't really understand the second part... I'm sure we both *acknowledge* that action or inaction alike can have consequences, but clearly, we disagree on some of the specifics. ;)
(06/29 03:42:48) Kaelri: As for whether Sharper's gone, I do believe he left this land for Noloben this afternoon.
(06/29 03:42:55) Kaelri: End.
(06/29 03:43:15) Migo: thank you
(06/29 03:43:26) Kaelri nods his head
(06/29 03:43:46) Serephina: Pry?
(06/29 03:44:07) Pryftan: Well.. my viewpoint differs in that I don't think Sharper's plan is ridiculous or foolish. I think those viewpoints are mostly gleaned from the reckless style in which he announced his plan.
(06/29 03:44:48) Pryftan: Sharper does that. He talks big and reckless, but he is a smart and capable hunter. The plan is not reckless; Nick confirmed he had been working on it these three weeks. Planning.
(06/29 03:44:59) Carwyn Jen: Thank you. Has the DRC stated their po
(06/29 03:45:08) Carwyn Jen: Sorry,
(06/29 03:45:14) Serephina: hold that thought please :) Jen
(06/29 03:45:34) Migo: Thank you both, well done :-)
(06/29 03:45:46) Fell the Librarian welcomes newcomers and reminds everyone to please hold their questions until called upon by our Moderator Serephina. If you have a question please PM her the word "question" and you'll be added tot he queue.
(06/29 03:45:47) Pryftan: I'm afraid I don't really know how to respond to the question and that I'm really just responding to Kaelri, so we might as well move on.
(06/29 03:45:50) Pryftan: END.
(06/29 03:45:53) Kaelri: May I respond?
(06/29 03:45:56) Migo: Serephina, you to...I must go...
(06/29 03:46:04) Serephina: thx Migo
(06/29 03:46:12) Migo: :-)
(06/29 03:46:15) Serephina: yes Kaelri briefly :)
(06/29 03:46:37) Kaelri: My judgment of Sharper's plan has nothing to do with his attitude. He stated his purpose quite clearly. If I may quote:
(06/29 03:46:45) Kaelri: "I will come back with a body. If I come back at all."
(06/29 03:47:11) Kaelri: No matter how meticulously Sharper has planned that operation, it's the purpose of it that is fundamentally reckless.
(06/29 03:47:14) Kaelri: End.
(06/29 03:47:22) Fell the Librarian claps his hands
(06/29 03:47:23) Atheni33 nods
(06/29 03:47:35) peni nods her head
(06/29 03:47:49) Serephina: Next Q is from Atheni33
(06/29 03:48:09) Atheni33: my question has been asked by another thanx
(06/29 03:48:19) Pryftan: Yay!
(06/29 03:48:21) Serephina: okay thx
(06/29 03:48:24) Serephina: :)
(06/29 03:48:25) Atheni33: :)
(06/29 03:48:53) Serephina: Kaelri you originally had a Q? did you want to add someting and Pry could resond to it
(06/29 03:49:05) Serephina: *respond
(06/29 03:49:11) Kaelri: I covered it in my response to the first question I was asked. go on. :)
(06/29 03:49:16) Serephina: okay
(06/29 03:49:34) Serephina: next Q is from Eire thx for waiting
(06/29 03:49:45) Serephina: if still here?
(06/29 03:49:54) Kaelri: She seems to have left.
(06/29 03:49:59) Pryftan: Yeah.
(06/29 03:50:11) Serephina: okay then that is the end of the queue
(06/29 03:50:19) Pryftan: Oh. Wow.
(06/29 03:50:22) Kaelri blinks.
(06/29 03:50:24) Fell the Librarian weclomes newcomersa and would like to remind everyone to
(06/29 03:50:29) Pryftan: Anybody else? If not, I guess we'll just have closing statements.
(06/29 03:50:30) Serephina: yeah wow indeed
(06/29 03:50:32) Fell the Librarian claps his hands
(06/29 03:50:32) Adventure Dan cheers
(06/29 03:50:38) Adventure Dan claps his hands
(06/29 03:50:39) Professor Tish claps her hands
(06/29 03:50:41) Sacred: shorah
(06/29 03:50:42) Rih'ki cheers
(06/29 03:50:44) Serephina: okay there is another one
(06/29 03:50:49) Kaelri: Excellent.
(06/29 03:50:53) Pryftan: Good =)
(06/29 03:50:54) Dr. Burne: as i see it,
(06/29 03:50:54) Serephina: Dr. Burne
(06/29 03:50:56) Serephina: :)
(06/29 03:51:08) Dr. Burne: the barho are acting of their own accord
(06/29 03:51:30) Dr. Burne: so that means that they are to be recongnised as a whole entity
(06/29 03:51:37) Dr. Burne: regaurdless of faction
(06/29 03:52:01) Kaelri raises an eyebrow.
(06/29 03:52:11) Professor Tish is a bit puzzled...
(06/29 03:52:12) Dr. Burne: if sharper tries to commit genoside aganist the bahro, he will be killed by them in self defence
(06/29 03:52:12) Adventure Dan slaps his hand on his chest and pushes them outward in disagreement with the ignorance
(06/29 03:52:28) Serephina: Dan please be respectful
(06/29 03:52:37) Adventure Dan: pardon
(06/29 03:52:41) Dr. Burne: they are stronger than they look. i have the scars to prove it.
(06/29 03:52:55) Pryftan: Dr. Burne I'm not sure what your question is.
(06/29 03:53:03) Serephina: Dr. Burne is there a question?
(06/29 03:53:06) peni: what if Sharper kills an innocent bahro child
(06/29 03:53:10) Kaelri: Nor am I. Though you've already said plenty I can respond to...
(06/29 03:53:26) Dr. Burne: it's that is battle a truly justifiible otion
(06/29 03:53:32) Serephina: peni please join the queue if you have a Q :)
(06/29 03:53:40) Pryftan: May I take this first, Serephina?
(06/29 03:53:46) Dr. Burne: sorry, justfiyable option
(06/29 03:53:48) Serephina: yes you may
(06/29 03:53:54) Serephina: then Kaelri
(06/29 03:53:54) peni: oh sorry i thought it was empty :(
(06/29 03:54:09) Serephina: peni we will start a new one with you
(06/29 03:54:15) Pryftan: Sharper is not committing genocide, he's only killing one Bahro.
(06/29 03:54:33) Adventure Dan raises his right eyebrow
(06/29 03:54:34) Dr. Burne: is he?
(06/29 03:54:35) Pryftan: The question is really, I think, which Bahro.
(06/29 03:54:56) Dr. Burne: god help him if he's after a cheiftain
(06/29 03:55:25) Pryftan: And the answer to that question is simply that Sharper's good at this. We've heard his accounts.
(06/29 03:55:40) Adventure Dan raise his eyebrow once agian
(06/29 03:55:47) Dr. Burne: you have NEVER seen a bahro cheiftain
(06/29 03:55:52) Serephina: Pry hold on.. Dr. Burne are you done with the question?
(06/29 03:55:56) Dr. Burne: they are too strong
(06/29 03:56:23) peni: oh go ahead
(06/29 03:56:28) Sacred: i wonder if the bahro practice infanticide?
(06/29 03:56:29) Serephina: please state a question and then wait for the answer Dr. Burne
(06/29 03:56:38) Dr. Burne: he is walking into his grave!
(06/29 03:56:54) Sacred: oh sorry didnt mean to interrupt
(06/29 03:57:01) Serephina: np Sacred
(06/29 03:57:03) Dr. Burne: do what you will but you have been warned
(06/29 03:57:14) Pryftan: Dr. Burne.. I really don't know what to tell you.
(06/29 03:57:17) Serephina: please hold everyone
(06/29 03:57:21) Atheni33 sighs
(06/29 03:57:27) Pryftan: I mean, I'm not Sharper.
(06/29 03:57:29) Mystified: Dr. Burne left
(06/29 03:57:38) Kaelri: Hm.
(06/29 03:57:39) Pryftan: ..okay. hahd
(06/29 03:57:41) DukeMan: I hope he's off to take his meds
(06/29 03:57:42) Serephina: if you recently PM'd me I need you to resubmit please
(06/29 03:57:52) Pryftan: I guess move on? Or do you want to say something, Kaelri
(06/29 03:57:59) Serephina: Kaelri?
(06/29 03:58:10) Kaelri: I did, actually. Pity he isn't here to hear it, but no matter.
(06/29 03:58:32) Serephina: go for it
(06/29 03:58:45) Kaelri: The first thing Dr. Burne mentioned was that now that the Bahro are "fre" - and I'm still not convinced of that, but I'll accept it for the moment - that we must treat them as a single entity.
(06/29 03:59:01) Kaelri: I say their freedom implies exactly the opposite.
(06/29 03:59:13) Adventure Dan nods in agreement
(06/29 03:59:14) Atheni33 nods
(06/29 03:59:24) Dagny: I agree with Kaelri
(06/29 03:59:34) Kaelri: Now, more than ever, we must be prepared for schisms and conflicts within the Bahro - different beliefs, different factions, and individuals taking matters into their own hands.
(06/29 03:59:51) Ravenclaw agrees
(06/29 04:00:00) Kedran Cor nods his head
(06/29 04:00:34) Kaelri: It is for exactly that reason that Sharper's action may not only be unnecessary, but destructive in ways that Sharper probably has not taken the time to consider.
(06/29 04:00:39) Kaelri: End.
(06/29 04:00:51) Pryftan: Can I respond?
(06/29 04:01:04) Serephina: one statement pls
(06/29 04:01:48) Fell the Librarian reminds newcomers to hold your questions until called upon, if you have a question PM Serephina with the word "question" and you will be added to the queue
(06/29 04:02:07) Pryftan: Well I agree the Bahro should not be treated as one entity. But I don't think that's what Sharper's doing. He took the Journey, he has as much reason to believe there are good Bahro as we do. He will find a Bahro who is part of the faction who is against us - because there certainly is such a faction - before he acts.
(06/29 04:02:18) Pryftan: Sorry for abusing "one statement" =D
(06/29 04:02:19) Pryftan: END.
(06/29 04:02:22) Serephina: :)
(06/29 04:02:33) Serephina: Kaelri? one statement?
(06/29 04:02:48) Kaelri: Thank you.
(06/29 04:04:08) Kaelri: You seem to think it's a certainty, Pryftan, that there is a faction that is against us - against us in the sense of having a hostile intent toward us. Wanting, in other words, to kill us and drive us out. I am not convinced of that. The evidence for that belief is circumstantial at best - not nearly enough to justify Sharper's mission.
(06/29 04:04:14) Kaelri: End.
(06/29 04:04:38) Serephina: peni has the next question, first Kaelri then Pry for answers
(06/29 04:04:44) peni: ty my concern it the retaliation factor, they are stronger and faster than we are. if they wanted to hurt us they would have. and didn't they help Wheely?
(06/29 04:06:00) Kaelri: A Bahro did seem to help Wheely, yes. Gave her water and helped heal her leg injury. It may even have been the same Bahro that later killed her, which is why I'm not ready to accept that they are all freed from their old bonds.
(06/29 04:07:19) Kaelri: As for the first part, I think you're right - if a Bahro faction *has* declared war on us, their strategy is lost on me. A full month without a sighting of them, so much as an attack? And a shift in activity away from the cavern, and into precisely those Ages on which explorers cannot set foot?
(06/29 04:08:23) Kaelri: Taking this "Bahro Civil War" into account, that makes me wonder if Wheely's death *was* a monumental accident on that Bahro's part, and this shift in activity is an attempt - agreed upon by both sides - to keep the humans out of it, for everyone's sake. This may not be our fight.
(06/29 04:08:24) Kaelri: End.
(06/29 04:08:30) Serephina: Pry
(06/29 04:08:52) Pryftan: Again, I refer you to Sharper's account of the Bahro fighting in Negilhan.
(06/29 04:09:12) Pryftan: Sharper was saved by Bahro. They protected him from other Bahro trying to kill him.
(06/29 04:09:42) Pryftan: This isn't a situation where you can say that he misread their intentions. Sharper knows when an animal is ready to kill, sentient or not.
(06/29 04:10:32) Pryftan: We are being helped by one side and attacked by another. That's a much more simple solution to the puzzle of why Bahro healed Wheely, Bahro killed Wheely, rather than assuming "they're not in control."
(06/29 04:10:42) Kachada agrees
(06/29 04:11:53) Pryftan: It is easy to say that in this solution the Bahro may not really have us in mind as direct targets. Their priority is to stop the other side of Bahro. In this sense, too, I feel throwing our hat into the ring on the "good" side is a smart move.
(06/29 04:12:10) Kachada agrees
(06/29 04:13:02) Pryftan: You and Vormaen talk of the idea of getting the Bahro to help us do things we cannot do - such as turn back time and maybe recover some of those lost. Allying ourselves to Bahro is the only way that could even be possible. Plus, we get to examine their biology and learn about their habits and social structure.
(06/29 04:13:22) Pryftan: In any event, we learn more.
(06/29 04:13:24) Pryftan: END.
(06/29 04:13:33) Kaelri: I'd like to respond, and I don't think it'll be brief...
(06/29 04:13:50) Serephina: okay with you Pry?
(06/29 04:14:05) Pryftan: Yes, but I want to ask you how long the queue is now
(06/29 04:14:25) Serephina: 3 more Qs and that will be about it for me I have to say :)
(06/29 04:14:34) Kaelri: It won't be any longer than what I'm replying to. ;)
(06/29 04:14:42) Serephina: okay heh
(06/29 04:14:50) Serephina: Pry?
(06/29 04:14:51) Pryftan: Kaelri, do you think we can do those questions and you can respond in your closing statement?
(06/29 04:15:02) Serephina: hmm good idea
(06/29 04:15:04) Pryftan: I'm just worried people are losing interest
(06/29 04:15:14) [b:83d9885

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In other words, my posts, views and opinions are completely unrelated to those of 'islander1'.

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