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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:19 am 
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Mr Goodcat wrote:
The community should come together and agree on one shard provider. Wheather that be an individual or a group, it does not make a difference. Then each user can submit their creations. You can also set up a system that would allow the individual creator to decide if they wish to coose a payment option for their content or make it free. Kind of like an application store except for ages. I could go into more detail of how I think it could work if anyone is interested! :)

Not going to happen. This community has already proven there is too much distrust of fans having power over other fans. In an ideal world, this would be a good solution, but it is unrealistic in practice.

It's a miracle the Guilds are standing as they are (partially because they are the only sources for gratification at the moment), and even that was not a smooth road.

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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:13 am 
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Shards… we use various definitions of the term. Several other games use the term too. In the simplest concept it means all the players in a ‘shard’ can see each other. Whether a ‘shard’ is one or more physical computers and whether multiple computers are located together or remotely… really does not matter to the players.

We have been told MOUL scales well. We were not told if it scales down to one machine. Many are hoping and expecting it to. We’ll find out. If it does scale down to one machine and can handle 20 or so concurrent players decently then I think we are likely to have an initial flock of servers, otherwise, not so many.

I think Chogon meant that it would be possible for all the fans, with some work, to link servers in various locations together in one large shard (single game instance). I don’t get that all MUST connect to the same shard.

If you have played with Open Simulation you know it can run stand alone. Or one can configure it to connect to a larger grid. It still runs in your computer to furnish your ‘land’ to the larger grid/contient. I am guessing Chogon meant something similar.

Mr. Googcat, there are some people in the fan community that work with game servers as their day job. There are others that are college kids and others that are IT professionals and all have their ideas of what would be best and what they want to do. I doubt we can blend all those thoughts and desires into a single consensus. I’ve never seen the community come together and unanimously agree on anything other than liking Uru. Building consensus here is like using a sheep dog for herding cats.

Deledrius, the guilds are just collections of fans with similar interests. They are mostly made up of core fans and they tend to be the more active fans working on projects. OpenUru.org is mostly outside the guild circle and I think that was intentional. They are getting lots of planning done, figuring how to best change Uru to work for new players to quickly get them into the multiplayer part of the game and not spoil the Cleft puzzle. Also, they are looking at how to add some of things that current day MMO players expect and still keep the Myst feel. Those in the GoW, well those that post there, fuss and moan and even flame from time to time. But on a whole they are forming teams and helping individuals build ages. They are in no danger of evaporating. It is not luck or that they are the only playgrounds that keep people participating in the guilds.

In other games new guilds are forming. A player in GW just posted about starting a new Uru-fans guild there. The New Guilds of Eder D’Uru has built a guild hall and is having regular meetings and providing language and building classes. Spoken Word and story nights groups have formed. It is natural for fans to form into groups of similar interests. In the Uru community we tend to call them guilds. It’s not luck, it human nature.

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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:56 pm 
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I have posted a discussion based upon an article entitled "Designing a 'Single Server' MMORPG" by James Portnow. It's more about design under the assumption of a single shard than the choices we'll be making about joining Uru shards, but thought I'd mention it for those who might be interested.

Discussion with link to article:
http://forums.openuru.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=196

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:53 am 
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1) Everyone falls back on the Until Uru pattern because that is all that they know.

2) Cyan has stated in a few places that the current Uru Servers scale well and "Shard" as we know the term isn't a very good fit anymore.

Those are the only two facts that I have ever seen regarding the newer MOUL era servers.

If Uru gets a decent Server Browser tucked into the Nexus system all of this could be as simple as a star configured Lan. As long as the satellite servers hosting custom (Relto/Private Ages/Hoods/Citys) keep registered with whatever login server they choose to affiliate with people may never know anything past the name of the "Shard" portal they login from. That's the dream anyway that keeps me interested in hosting my own shard; that I could get away with being a minor satellite in a larger cluster.

It will be interesting seeing how Cyan's code ends up unfolding.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:34 am 
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I do know they have (Or had) a "Server selection" system in place - It was in use inside Live to choose which server-set you connected to, if you had access to the "Rehearsal" system. For those that didn't, it went straight through.

I believe the "Rehearsal" system had a separate Vault, but they both used the same Authentication system (So a single login could get you into either). That implies there was a central server with a list of allowed users, and which server-set each user had. Probably nothing more than a site with HTTP Basic authentication, which returned a descriptive file (XML, CSV, plain text) detailing what server addresses were available. I'm sure it'd be a simple task to change that into an open-access file hosted somewhere public that server-sets can add themselves to. Perhaps it could even be modified with an "Advanced" option to allow private server users to type-in their own address.

So, something like a URL for the server-sets to send a standard HTTP GET to every x minutes (To indicate they're still alive), and a second URL for the clients to lookup that simply lists the server-sets (And a name/description for them).

A matter of 5 minutes - No DB required (Until, that is, we get several hundred server-sets all checking in at once. Then a simple flat/XML file may be a little overwhelmed with all the locks).

Note: I'm using "Server-sets" rather than "Shard", as I'm envisioning something like an IRC system, with branch and leaf servers. No matter how it's done, though, the authentication/server list doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:50 pm 
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If open source works the same way as URU multiplayer to date, authentication and the data server form a common, single gateway onto a shard (one or many). Ultimately, the number of shards will be driven by the number of vaults (databases) we end up with.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:53 pm 
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We can have many servers per 'shard'.. but the end result is each vault (heh.. shame it's not based on the Fallout mythos instead of Myst :wink:) will be a server set unto itself. There'll probably be stuff for communicating across vaults (that have been suggested elsewhere already) but as it goes there will be many. Everyone has their own opinions, and since there's no official group like Cyan was, we can't have a single 'official' vault. Only a lot of unofficial ones that will vary in ages included, code versions (maybe), tricks, abilities (userKI was the least of what you could do with open source coming) and so on.
Even just pure vanilla using MOUL at end will result in many for different things.. and many will be story-based.

It'll prune itself, much like UU did. You'll get a blossoming of vaults for everything, with enough overlap to remake the game many times over. Then over time people will settle down to a few. An official testing vault for just code revisions of trunk etc, and bugtesting. A handful (not just one, but a few) 'story' ones with some people. A few free vaults with all the goodies enabled that has no relation to a 'stodgy story', instead somewhere to do the wacky things you can't do elsewhere. It won't be a massive scattering, but it won't be one thing.


Seriously, I've often grumbled that to paraphrase Terry Pratchett if you gave explorers a rope they'll instinctively pull it in every direction, while a few will unravel the rope to see how it's made. The only thing a small group trying to create a "one true server" will do will mean you'll guarantee a few more. The only way to ensure only one vault is to not make it open-source, to not let us change it. And heck, as we know even that won't stop people.


Embrace the diversity people.. it may fracture the community a bit but our community is centered around what Cyan makes. If they're not making, we drift, and no matter what we do we're not Cyan. It's not a matter of quality or agreements or what.. it's that Cyan started it, founded it, gave us our focus and our stories.


My hope is one day Cyan finds some way to set up their own vault or cluster of servers, or even appropriate someone's with permission.. and make a newer D'mala with some story woven around what content *we* create, instead of them. But I don't know if it could happen.. Cyan keeps their cards close for good reason, and doing too much out of house may involve more giving away of secrets than they can cope with.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:04 pm 
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Quote:
My hope is one day Cyan finds some way to set up their own vault or cluster of servers, or even appropriate someone's with permission.. and make a newer D'mala with some story woven around what content *we* create, instead of them. But I don't know if it could happen.. Cyan keeps their cards close for good reason, and doing too much out of house may involve more giving away of secrets than they can cope with.
That's MORE. I hope it happens too.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Quote:
I do know they have (Or had) a "Server selection" system in place - It was in use inside Live to choose which server-set you connected to, if you had access to the "Rehearsal" system. For those that didn't, it went straight through.

Well, that is intersting. So such a system is already there.

Quote:
My hope is one day Cyan finds some way to set up their own vault or cluster of servers, or even appropriate someone's with permission.. and make a newer D'mala with some story woven around what content *we* create, instead of them

Once the code is released, it can be done me problems. Better than it would have with restricted more :)

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