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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:50 am 
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ommadawn wrote:
Uhh.. could somebody paraphrase this thread for some-one (like me) who loves MO:UL but hasn't quite bought into the whole Myst universe?


The Book of D'ni mentions a different type of slaves, also called "Bahro," in a setting of a different city, with which D'ni shares ancestry.

Myst V's storyline involves a "tablet" which apparently is involved with control over the (Uru) Bahro. These Bahro can apparently link at will, and control the weather, among other seemingly-supernatural powers.

To go into much more detail would result in massive spoilers. None of the other games or books (except, of course, Uru) seem to mention the Bahro at all.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:33 pm 
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A Short History of the Bahro containing massive spoilers:

[spoiler]
The Bahro are an insectoid species most notable for thier ability to travel in a manner similar to linking through Ages at will without the benefit of a linking book, and seemingly unrestricted by their limitations (such as only having a certain spot in each Age they can link into.) This allows the Bahro to go virtually anywhere they want to go throughout the Ages at whim.

There are possibly some places they cannot link into or out of, but that remains under debate and is not fully clarified as of yet.

Most information concerning the Bahro is derived from messages left by Yeesha for the explorers who take up her journey. However, the veracity of her claims has become highly suspect.

Yeesha claims the Bahro were slaves, held in bondage for 10,000 years and insinuates they that the slave pens on Teledahn serve as evidence to the fact.

However, examining the physical evidence available in Teledahn shows human skeletal remains not Bahro. (As the Bahro appear to possess an exoskeletal structure rather than an internal one, Bahro remains would be very easy to identify.

The length of the Bahro slavery is also suspicious as it was only just 10,000 years ago today that the D'ni faction of the Ronay came to the cavern seeking a life of humility and cut themselves off from their slave holding bretheren.

Further, the complete lack of mention of any creature resembling the Bahro in D'ni records is suspicious. It is however noteworthy that after many generations, the D'ni did come to have a slave class in their society, which is sometimes confused for the Bahro creatures due to a confusion of names.

The D'ni slave class was known as "the least" and sometimes "bahro" (meaning "beast people") however all evidence seems to indicate they were humanoid peoples from other Ages.

The journey Yeesha tasks explorers with is a quest to "free" an individual Bahro from whatever forces seem to control them. Somehow the act of moving four "bahro pillars" from caves in the Star Fissure to caves in the cavern ceiling of D'ni frees the creatures.

As for what force controls them and why, this is still enigmatic.

Myst V: End of Ages claims that a magical device known as The Tablet binds the Bahro and forces they to obey the commands of its owner. However whether or not this is considered cannon for Uru remains unclear.

Regardless, D'ni involvment with the Bahro seems minimal, as no record of them appears in the Cavern before the Fall of the D'ni civilization, (particularly no record of Bahro being used as a labor force.) slavery would not have been an early D'ni practice, nor could it have been implimented on such a large scale even in the latter years of the D'ni civilization.

Ultimately there are many more questions than actual facts concerning the Bahro, and while I have made many conjectures as to what the remaining facts might be, I'll keep this post confined to the verified knowledge we do have. [/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:03 am 
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Nice summary!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:29 pm 
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Thank you. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:23 am 
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Atrus actualy might have brought the Bahro to the cavern.

In BOA and in verious records, say when Atrus was exploring in the city
he found the book of tarahnee, Atrus and a few D'ni went with him
linked through the book, and they caused a plauge that wiped out
many. there was this race called rehilee (spelling) which were the unseen
beast people what we know as the bahro. But to the normal
D'ni citizesen that name ment secret police. (a goverment cover up Just like
Area 51 and aliens are covered up to common folk)

Knowlage also went with what class (rich, middle, poor) and who you knew also played a roll in the D'ni socity. (just like our IRL socitys and cultures)



NOW the trick is of 'the BIG picture' the grand vision

URU has explorers from all around the world, bringing in their culture and languages and religions and ways of the socity they live in. So you now have this big mixing pot and the D'ni culture and socity,
which we are all trying solve and figure out the way they were and how they did things etc. We the Exporers are Dynamic in this area because we can take the D'ni culture and ways, emulate them at the same time also changing it with our explorer soup. Imagine one virtual common socity
made up of all the nations of the world.

oooops got off subject and carried away there, again :D


OR the Bahro were intraduced alot eirler than that from the same place.
Remember the Great King? and what he did secretly with the guild of chemists? also was said to have the ability to link just like the bahro!

Someone said that maybe Bahro blood was used as one of the ingredients for making the special ink. could be very possible
because (donno if this could have some realition or not) they have
differant colored markings on them. according to sharper, there are red
marks and blue marks on bahro, that may or may not tell us from a good or evil bahro. OR tell male from female, OR what D'ni slave owner they belonged too. (like cattle branding). OR tell the age of the bahro if the right age for a blood letting to make ink ritual.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:49 am 
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VoiZod wrote:
Atrus actualy might have brought the Bahro to the cavern.

In BOA and in verious records, say when Atrus was exploring in the city
he found the book of tarahnee, Atrus and a few D'ni went with him
linked through the book, and they caused a plauge that wiped out
many. there was this race called rehilee (spelling) which were the unseen
beast people what we know as the bahro. But to the normal
D'ni citizesen that name ment secret police. (a goverment cover up Just like
Area 51 and aliens are covered up to common folk)


The word your looking for is "relyimah" and is D'ni for "unseen". The Relyimah on Terahnee were human looking slaves from outside Ages that the Terahnee had trained themselves to not see. They were also called "bahro" as a derogatory word.

The Relyimah in D'ni were a secret police force, established by one of the Kings (can't remember which one). They were completely unrelated to the relyimah on Terahnee and the Bahro that we have seen about the cavern are just as completely different from the "bahro" on Terahnee.

VoiZod wrote:
OR the Bahro were intraduced alot eirler than that from the same place.
Remember the Great King? and what he did secretly with the guild of chemists? also was said to have the ability to link just like the bahro!


The Bahro can link at will (so far as we know). Why would someone need to "introduce" them to the cavern?

VoiZod wrote:
Someone said that maybe Bahro blood was used as one of the ingredients for making the special ink. could be very possible
because (donno if this could have some realition or not) they have
differant colored markings on them. according to sharper, there are red
marks and blue marks on bahro, that may or may not tell us from a good or evil bahro. OR tell male from female, OR what D'ni slave owner they belonged too. (like cattle branding). OR tell the age of the bahro if the right age for a blood letting to make ink ritual.


Where did Sharper say that the Bahro had different colored markings? Can you point me to a chatlog, because I obviously missed something.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:22 am 
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Yes, my powerful servants, your new master is here! Let's see what remarkable feats you can perform for me ... the new master of the Art!
(quoted By Escher )

It just backs up something I said in an eirler post to this thread.
Which was The Bahro are the Makers or Guardians of the TreeO.P.

The 'Returning' Giving back, Giving up the power, giving it all back to
the Bahro, who ARE the givers, the always watching, always waiting to give
more away of the knowlage of the 'Art'.

Ok as WE explorers take more away from the Bahro (This 'Art' they
possess) WE learn more of the 'Art' and start writing books for everything
creating buildings houses... AGES Yeesha said they were built on the
backs of the 'Least' The Bahro may actualy build or create some
or ALL the structors that are written into the discriptive books!

One magor mess up or it was put in on porpus is in one of Yeesha's
cave speeches;

The people of D'ni didn't return easilly. They only would take, until all was taken from them in the Great Returning, the Fall that destroyed them. D'ni fell only a few hundred years ago. All of it was removed.
And my journey was similar. I could write things that no D'ni had ever dreamed of. My writing smashed barriers held as absolutes for millenia. I could change things, I could move things, I could control things. I learned beyond my parents, I learned beyond all. I wrote Ages against any challenger, masters of The Art and they were beaten. I took all that I could hold. Only death can conquer pride so strong. For the D'ni, and for Yeesha, it was death that moved me to return. All died. All but the Least. The unproud. The Bahro considered themselves as dead already, and so they continued to watch D'ni, always ready to give more away. And now they will return.

This Explaines and backs up the other things I have stated, I'm just
'reading between the lines'

But back to the 'error' Only death can conquer pride so strong. For the D'ni, and for Yeesha, it was death that moved me to return. All died.

Ok If read literaly it says the D'ni and Yeesha BOTH died.
So WHO is this person speaking to us then??? It could not be
Yeesha cause she is already dead! :o

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:38 am 
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VoiZod wrote:
Yes, my powerful servants, your new master is here! Let's see what remarkable feats you can perform for me ... the new master of the Art!
(quoted By Escher )

The question is, does Esher really know what he's talking about? Does Yeesha, for that matter? Has she been deceived as well?

Quote:
It just backs up something I said in an eirler post to this thread.
Which was The Bahro are the Makers or Guardians of the TreeO.P.

Whether that's the case or not, I just don't see how the Esher quote implies it. The Bahro don't have to be makers or guardians of the tree to be powerful servants capable of remarkable feats.

Quote:
The Bahro may actualy build or create some
or ALL the structors that are written into the discriptive books!

The D'ni didn't write artificial structures into Ages, as a rule.

Quote:
Only death can conquer pride so strong. For the D'ni, and for Yeesha, it was death that moved me to return. All died.

Ok If read literaly it says the D'ni and Yeesha BOTH died.
So WHO is this person speaking to us then??? It could not be
Yeesha cause she is already dead! :o

The most obvious explanation is that the death that moved her to return was Calam's.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:17 pm 
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Quote:
The D'ni didn't write artificial structures into Ages, as a rule.


True.

What I was saying is what Yeesha said about the ages, They were
built on the backs of the least (the bahro)

Anyway The Giving and Taking ( of the Art )
The Returning and the Giving Back ( of the Art )
To the BAhro The Least have now become Great again.
Phil's journal also says this (read between the lines )

Back up take a few steps back from that tree your facing
cause your nose is touching the bark of it.
Then view the 'Whole tree' or picture. BOA ; T'ana said
You must view the whole.
The BAhro is what makes the 'Art'possible!
But just how is still yet unknown.

Quote:
The question is, does Esher really know what he's talking about? Does Yeesha, for that matter? Has she been deceived as well?


Decieved by whom? o_O
As for M5 stuff GD did say and this is canon, that M5 content
WILL be added to MouL , BUT added in a way that is totaly differant
from the way the M5 game played out,
to the way it will be added and played out in MouL.

So with that said I take that all of the journals and things said
by the NPCs ( Escher and Yeesha ) are still Canon,
Unless otherwise stated from Cyan that they are NOT.

So Yes I believe Escher (who is alot like Gehn) knew what he was
talking about. As for Yeesha and the Whole story of her family
You have to really look at it , Yeesha says it all in her speeches.
there is something that caused the family to be like cursed with
something ... a huge berdon, heavy crushing weight, What is
this huge burdon Acactly? That has seemed to be passed down?
Could it be the 'Art' ? or knowlage there of?

Yeesha has actualy lied to us She NEVER has told us acataly what
we were doing (the taking and returning of the totem in our relto's)
and in M5 we get the answer as why she lied to us but still we help
her not knowing acatly what we are doing.. are we all that nieve?
we all must be lol. Because now we have that bourdon which
Yeesha so gladly thanked us for after releiving her of it, But
all we get for all the hard work is just a VIEW of Releshahn
some big reward... and now we are left to deal with the great burdon
our selfs (the BAhro and the 'art')
Kinda thoughless and selfish of Yeeshs don't cha think?.

There is one over looked Theory and please correct me if you know
the story Im talking about, There was this Guild Master he was
of the Guild of Illusionists he bought a privot Island in the cavern
and built a huge manson on it and through it. some very strange things
started happening there and suddeny out of the blue his
daughter supossingly sleepwalks right out the upper window of her
bedroom and falls to her death. the story goes on to saying that
a lot of D'ni thought the place as Haunted and others seem mysterious
dark figures in the windows and shadows, He later gave the manson
and the Island to the 'Relyimah' ( D'ni secret police or BAhro )
By the way the story goes it was for the BAhro.

Now could this be the Origin of the Bahro?

But what blows that theory kinda is the Grower! who is believed to
be able to do all these impossible feats.
Which is actualy Mixing the to 'Arts' back into one again.
making it possible for Yeesha to do the Impossible with the 'Art'
making her the Grower. Which would also mean that the Bahro could
have not come the Privot Island.

Some say the BAhro came out of the StarFissure but then
where did the Starfissure come from?

The best answer I got to the starfissure is in one of the 3 books
BOA BOT BOD During the Riven years, Catherine with the help
of T'ana ? Wrote into the Riven Discriptive book a Revercial phrase
meaning at the last most possible minute of the Destruction of Riven
the age would reverse its self back to narmal again.

The Fissure could have been created by Catherine by mistake
because she was just learning the 'Art' back then.

Or it was Gehn himself trying to restore the age of Riven
from his 233rd age. But then why does it lead back to D'ni then?

Sorry got off topic so I will now get off soap box... :D

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:07 am 
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Quote:
Decieved by whom? o_O
As for M5 stuff GD did say and this is canon, that M5 content
WILL be added to MouL , BUT added in a way that is totaly differant
from the way the M5 game played out,

Well, now that Dr Watson's back as well, we doubly know that M5 is canon! :D But still, it being canon doesn't mean that the characters are telling the truth. Or even that they know what they are talking about. They could be made to be deluded within the context of the stories.
But you only need to see the end of M5, and all credibility Escher's mental state had is lost :P

Quote:
He later gave the manson
and the Island to the 'Relyimah' ( D'ni secret police or BAhro )
By the way the story goes it was for the BAhro.


... Were the Relyimah (The D'ni Relyimah) ever called the Bahro? I know the Terahnee Relyimah were called the Bahro as well, but to my knowledge the D'ni version wasn't.

Quote:
Yeesha has actualy lied to us She NEVER has told us acataly what
we were doing (the taking and returning of the totem in our relto's)
and in M5 we get the answer as why she lied to us but still we help
her not knowing acatly what we are doing.. are we all that nieve?


Just to clarify. I don't think she ever LIED per se. Sure, she led us on without telling us what we really doing, but she never lied. And heck, perhaps what we were doing really was the right thing to do. While it may not have been entirely ethical, it wasn't a lie. simply a misrepresentation of the truth :P

Quote:
The Fissure could have been created by Catherine by mistake
because she was just learning the 'Art' back then.


That's actually an interesting idea. Catherine was always the one who did the seemingly impossible, and BoA seems to make it clear that she could manipulate the Art on a whole nother level, beyond what the D'ni traditionally knew. But yes, it seems weird that if it existed long before Catherine's time, that there are no writings about it from the D'ni. Unless we just haven't discovered them yet ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:44 pm 
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Narym wrote:
... Were the Relyimah (The D'ni Relyimah) ever called the Bahro?

No. King Lemashal established the Minor Guild of Illusionists in 3961 as a front for the Relyimah, and no one would dream of referring to guildsmen as bahro.

Faresh was the leader of the Relyimah who built the mansion on Katha island (sometime after 5043). His daughter died in 5102. He left the house after that, but the Relyimah continued to use it. Their presence in the supposedly abandoned mansion sustained the rumours that it was haunted (which had started with the daughter's death).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:05 pm 
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I agree with Tesseract and Narym; the bahro were called relyimah only by the Tehranee, not the D'ni.

Quote:
Faresh was the leader of the Relyimah who built the mansion on Katha island (sometime after 5043). His daughter died in 5102. He left the house after that, but the Relyimah continued to use it. Their presence in the supposedly abandoned mansion sustained the rumours that it was haunted (which had started with the daughter's death).


If I remember correctly faresh wasn't the leader of the Relyimah but only a spy in the Guild of the Illusionists who was looking for "the mole"

VoiZod wrote:
Some say the BAhro came out of the StarFissure but then
where did the Starfissure come from?


This is interesting. I was thinking of something like this a few days ago.
That's possible that the bahro come from the Star Fissure (look where the blue bahro caves are placed) and seeing how it behave in Riven maybe we could think that the StarFissure is the "place" where all the ages intersect. This could explain the strange powers the Bahro have.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:22 pm 
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sel-tahn wrote:
I agree with Tesseract and Narym; the bahro were called relyimah only by the Tehranee, not the D'ni.

Regarding the different use of terms by both the Terahnee and the D'ni, see this posting, please.

Quote:
Quote:
Faresh was the leader of the Relyimah who built the mansion on Katha island (sometime after 5043). His daughter died in 5102. He left the house after that, but the Relyimah continued to use it. Their presence in the supposedly abandoned mansion sustained the rumours that it was haunted (which had started with the daughter's death).


If I remember correctly faresh wasn't the leader of the Relyimah but only a spy in the Guild of the Illusionists who was looking for "the mole"

Before making statements that could be misleading, better quote from the sources. The relevant excerpts from DRC notebooks about the D'ni Kings are:
Notebook about King Yableshan wrote:
In 5043 Yableshan placed a man by the name of Faresh in charge of the Guild of Illusionists. His first mission, as ordered by Yableshan himself, was to find whoever was destroying the Relyimah's ability to gain knowledge.

Though most believe that Faresh had been more interested in actual illusions than the Unseen, he was also known as an extremely intelligent man and immediately put into action a plan to clean up the Relyimah. He also began construction of a "house" on one of the private islands of the cavern that blatantly demonstrated his love for illusions.

Notebook about King Emen wrote:
Faresh left the house a year after the death of his daughter, claiming to be unable to live with the memories of his daughter. The house was given completely (although no one knew it at the time) to the Relyimah. Rumors of dark shadows in windows and boats silently rowing toward the island fueled the idea the house was haunted.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:54 am 
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From an orientation session by ResEng A. Biegalski last Wednesday,[spoiler=Bahro and the DRC, a brief history.]
ResEng A. Biegalski: Well, when the DRC first arrived in the cavern to start work, everything appeared as expected. Of course, as we all know, shortly thereafter the explorers began arriving. And that's really where we started hearing about the Bahro... At first there was little more than rumors from a few explorers. Many of them had seen things in the Ages they couldn't explain... Of course, most of you are quite familiar with these by now: Cave drawings, unique artifacts, etc.

Well, for a time it remained as little more than rumor. The 'Bahro' the explorers were speaking of was mere myth as far as we all knew at that time. In 2003, when the DRC left the cavern the first time, all of this changed. Many explorers reported actually seeing Bahro in the flesh. And a 'great scream' just before being inexplicably removed from the cavern. We can't be sure what that was about... but what we do know is that since we have returned, the Bahro have been here with us.

Now, we only know some bits about the history of the Bahro and the D'ni. And much of it is unconfirmed. What we do know is that the Bahro are a unique race of sentient creatures, with the natural ability to Link. At will. Which may mean, they may have been here all along and simply not shown themselves.

They appear to use symbols for writing. We don't know of any vocal language.

Now the D'ni, who were so obsessed with Linking, were obviously interested in the Bahro. And we have no records of how it came to be, but we know that at some point some of the D'ni had captured and enslaved the Bahro. The Bahro, however, were not common knowledge to most of the D'ni population. So the records are sparse.

That bring us up to current events:
At some point between when the DRC left in 2003 and our return in 2006, the Bahro presence in the cavern increased drastically. And, during the tragic accident that killed Willow Engberg, the unthinkable happened: During the rescue operation, it appears that one of the Bahro actually killed Willow, according to those on the scene. This, of course, threw us all into confusion. We had never believed that Bahro might be hostile.

Douglas Sharper, as part of his constant observations in Negilahn, returned to us with word that the Bahro were separated into two sides in the midst of a 'civil war' of sorts. As he describes it, it's a war of ideology. The Bahro were previously enslaved by the D'ni. And now that they are free, some of them desire vengeance of a kind. Despite the fact that none of us are D'ni. On the other hand, the rest of the Bahro realize that we are not to blame. Which results in civil war.

Now, the way things currently lie is this: Dr. Watson returned to the cavern around a month ago bringing us news about the war. It seems he's spent quite a bit of time with the Bahro in his time away. According to Dr. Watson, the 'good' Bahro have done everything in their power to deceive us of the danger here. The 'evil' Bahro are held back only by the 'good' Bahro who are endeavoring to protect us. Our notions that the Cavern (or, indeed, anyplace) is safe, is merely an illusion. According to Watson, at least. And, in his words, things are coming to a head soon. As Watson says: The Cavern is not going to be safe forever.

So, that brings us completely up to date. Watson has encouraged everyone to find a better place to be... but not provided any better ideas quite yet. So for now, I think we wait to see what he's come up with. And of course, the ever enigmatic Yeesha probably has some part to play in all this. But heck if I know what it is. ><

[/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:42 am 
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Just a note, the Great Link as it is known (the scream and everyone being linked back to relto) happened in 2006 not 2003.


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