It is currently Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:53 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 131 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Is hacking Cyan servers pushing back open source
Yes 66%  66%  [ 120 ]
No 19%  19%  [ 34 ]
Indifferent 8%  8%  [ 14 ]
Indifferent 8%  8%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 182
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:02 am
Posts: 683
Location: Wherever my ages take me.
Legal issues take a lot of time and patience to resolve. Licensing issues as well.

When Cyan is working on MOULa, which is:
1. Currently making no money other than donations at this time
2. Which has many issues to resolve regarding legal and licensing
3. Which has very few people working on MOULa itself.

Considering as well that MOULa is a side-project, with lower priority for Cyan in comparison with working on projects that help the company make money/survive, I believe we'd be kidding ourselves if we think MOULa is going to be changing at a fast pace, be it with content in-game or tools released, any time soon.

Freelance work and internships for Cyan do sound like good ideas to help in these regards, each being beneficial to both Cyan and the state of MOULa.

_________________
KI#46415
KI#80658


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:04 pm 
Offline
Cyan Employee

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 10:11 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Chattaroy, WA
Questions and answers

1) Is hacking Cyan servers pushing back open source?

To some extent, yes. Any time spent on MO:ULagain right now is time not spent working on projects that pay Cyan's bills (MO:ULagain is not one of those projects, it has a much more modest goal of just paying for its upkeep). Those projects obviously have to be the priority, or at some point there is no Cyan and any plans for open sourcing MO:UL become moot. Time not spent on those projects now just push back when we will have "free" time for moving open source forward another step.

2) Why doesn't Cyan just do x, y, or z, or tell us why they can't?

We have explained precisely where we are and why many, many times. From the time that the intentions to open source MO:UL were first announced, we explained what the hurdles are and why progress will be slow while Cyan remains in its current situation (i.e., very few employees, extremely tight budget, etc.). Feel free to re-read Rand's explanation from Mysterium 2008, the Developer tab at the top of this page, or any of Chogon's updates that pretty much reiterate the same thing every couple of months. The situation hasn't changed. There are often legal reasons or other reasons that we can't "just do x, y, or z", depending on what they are. We are, however, making progress and taking the steps that we can when we can. Chogon has even explained what some of the next planned steps are. But, again, our priority has to be those projects that are keeping Cyan's bills paid. Period. Or else Cyan and MO:UL go away. It's not a threat. It's a simple statement of fact. When we have free time, we put the resources we can toward moving MO:UL forward. As each step is taken, there will continue to be more ways that those so inclined can contribute.

3) Why is Cyan threatening to take down MO:ULagain if people continue to exploit security holes in the current game server?

It is not a threat. It is another simple statement of fact. The security fixes during the downtime addressed the largest threats to vault corruption without crippling the game for everyone. Other security issues are currently being addressed. If they are exploited in the meantime, then vault corruption becomes a real concern again, and MO:ULagain will be taken down until those holes can be plugged as well, instead of risking vault corruption by keeping the game available while they're being plugged.

4) Will the CAVCON level be affected by these updates?

I am guessing that the CAVCON level will likely be at least temporarily affected as some funds are used to help offset the costs as programmers take time away from their paying projects to work on MO:ULagain.

5) What does Cyan go through to keep Cyan open?

I can't speak for anyone else at Cyan, but I can tell you my personal experience. After GameTap MO:UL closed and attempts to pick up other projects failed, most of the development team was laid off. I chose to take a 25% pay cut in order to remain at Cyan and work in the QA department testing games for other publishers. [Aside -- Why would one choose to take a large pay cut when one is qualified for much higher paying jobs elsewhere? There are several theories: a) I'm an idiot, b) I want to stay at Cyan and am willing to give up quite a bit to do so, c) Rand has incriminating evidence that I am from another planet, d) parts of all of the above. I think my wife picks the first one, though she doesn't say so out loud.]

When the main publisher we were testing for had "financial issues" and had to stop using our testing services, there was another large round of layoffs, this time in the QA department. I returned to the production side to work on smaller projects like Myst for the iPhone.

Since MO:ULagain opened in February, I've been averaging 70+ hours per week for Cyan, often working 7 days a week, attempting to divide my time between many different duties as the needs arise. Fortunately for Cyan, I have no life. (Well, my wife and I do homeschool our five children, so that tends to take a bit of time, but other than that, I have no life...) So when we say we are busy and things take as long as they take, it isn't because we're sitting around twiddling our thumbs or making empty excuses. We're busy. Really busy. Also, since I'm salary, those extra hours are all donated for Cyan's future at the expense of other things I could be doing with my time, like sleeping. :)

There are very few who knew any of these details. Frankly, it really isn't anyone's business. I'm explaining it now so that you can have some context for what I personally mean when I say, "We're doing the best we can with what we have."

Meanwhile, MQO and small iPhone projects are keeping us above water while various game designs continue sit in the no-man's land of being considered by publishers. If one of those is picked up our status may quickly change in ways we cannot predict. If not, we will continue to do the best we can with what we have.

6) Why won't Cyan ever accept outside help? It's FREE!!!

a) Money isn't the only factor considered. See points 2 and 5 above.
b) Offers are considered on a case by case basis. We shake a magic 8 ball and just follow its advice. Note: Our magic 8 ball is broken, and always comes up "no".
c) Offers are considered on a case by case basis. We weigh the costs (cons) against the benefits (pros). Yes, there are costs, even to "free" help. If the costs outweigh the benefits, we're likely to turn the offer down (imagine that), even if it's a good idea. If the benefits outweigh the costs (in our judgment, which may not line up with yours) we actually might accept the offer. [If this were not the case, I would never have been hired during Myst, there would have been no "Bahro scream event" to end D'mala, and on and on, and... we wouldn't have ever considered (let alone actually be taking) any steps toward open source in the first place. Those who imply that we never accept outside help are either misinformed or have selective memories.]
d) Sometimes offers sit in the "consider this later" pile for a loooong time. (See the "we're busy" part of point 5.) Zardoz can confirm that it took me over a month to get back to him on an idea of his I liked. So no response does not necessarily mean "no", it might just mean we haven't gotten to it yet while we focus on things that are higher on our priority list (not to beat Zardoz's pony, but MO:ULagain, as has been stated many times, is, by necessity, very low on that list right now).

Hope that helps.

_________________
CYAN - Richard A. Watson, RAWA v2.0


Last edited by RAWA on Wed May 12, 2010 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 1506
Location: Columbus, Ohio
I bow to your awesomeness, RAWA and continue in with patience since I know how dedicated you and the others are and SO appreciate the extra mile you all at Cyan have gone for all of us. Your work ethic sets the standard for others.


Big Bouquet of Roses to you very, very hard working folk.

Image

_________________
Moula:
DMom2K KI 74181
GameBoomer KI 83122

SL:
DMom2K Darwin

Currently residing in Guild Wars2 with DudeDad and trying to play Watch Dogs
Citizen of the Metaverse and oh, yeah, The Dude abides....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:02 am
Posts: 683
Location: Wherever my ages take me.
Same here, you (and all others at Cyan) are awesome RAWA :D

_________________
KI#46415
KI#80658


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 270
Yes, thank you thank you, and thanks for taking the time to respond. We really do appreciate the work you all put into this unpaid no less. Thanks again.

_________________
Image

Thelonius "Prof" Higginsbottom

member of the Guild of Calamitous Intent

"I invented the term the Bevin Generation do I get a spot in Mystlore?"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 441
Okay, so if we are down to:

1) Legal minefield
2) Stuff takes time to do

Can't we stop throwing around the "proprietary" phrase, at least with respect to Cyan? Cyan has no interest in protecting the code that they own since it is no longer profitable; they only have an interest in protecting the stuff that other people own and managing their person-hours effectively. The question stands: Is fixing security holes an effective use of said person-hours?

Or, to ask the real question: Given the choice between a functional MOULAgain and faster Open Source, which is better?

_________________
Guild of Outcasts

KI # 04260171


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:32 pm 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6199
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Pony and pony! What is pony?!

I need a mascot.

Thanks, RAWA. :)

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:37 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:53 pm
Posts: 157
Kolian wrote:
Or, to ask the real question: Given the choice between a functional MOULAgain and faster Open Source, which is better?


Good question.

I'm inclined to suspect that, as long as we stay above CAVCON 3, a functional MOULagain is likely to hasten rather than delay Open Source.

_________________
Have Ages, and link to them without bindings. [Words 1:13]
Seltani


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 2:10 am
Posts: 372
My response to RAWA: OK sounds good.

_________________
BAD is as good as BAD can be.

Visit our new site!

SOUP!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:10 am
Posts: 182
Location: Australia
Well now I feel guilty. No one should have to work those hours so I can enjoy myself. :(

_________________
Everything tastes better with chocolate....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:08 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 6:06 am
Posts: 1147
Location: Anywhere
Bravo! Excellent! Spectacular!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 1960
Location: Land of Confusion
RAWA wrote:
Rand has incriminating evidence that I am from another planet,
I know I knew him from somewhere

I cant thank you enough for your response Thanks again RAWA and Cyan. From both of me

_________________
When You have eliminated all other possibilities What ever is left must be the solution
Image
E=mc2
Energy = Milk Coffee 2


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 12:49 am
Posts: 66
Location: Springfield
Thank you, RAWA, for generously giving us your time. (And thanks to your wife and children who generously allow us to take up your time!)
Janara :)

_________________
KI - 95060


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:43 am
Posts: 47
Location: Ft. Wayne, IN
Thank you RAWA!!

As for myself, when the cavern closed in April of '08, I decided to take a wait-and-see attitude with Cyan. With all the dedicated fans of Uru, I felt that it wiould be only a matter of time (however long that might be) for Cyan to return to some form of Uru Live. When they announced the settlement between themselves and GameTap, and their plans for MORE, I decided to be patient and wait for Cyan to weather their financial crisis.

My Patience was rewarded with the release of MOULa. Did it happen as quickly as I would have liked? No. Unfortunately the timing was not my call... nor that of any other explorer.

I will be patient again for the release of open-source Uru.

My desires are two-fold (in order of importance):

1) For Cyan to be a viable and profitable company once again... for without Cyan, there is no more Uru in *any* incarnation!

2) New content for MOULa or an open-source Uru... or both.

I feel your pain, RAWA. I too have been involved in a multi-year project that forced me to work 70+ hour weeks while on salary... and in so doing, donating 30+ hours per week (many time 50+ hours) to the company in pro bono work!

.shorah gah bigtotee (Peace and blessings.)

_________________
KI# 180778 (Mystryman)
KI# 302897 (r'Tayrtahn)
KI# 3208921 (shokhootahn Rehn)

Second Life: Rehnehmtahn Later

Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:49 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:50 pm
Posts: 426
Location: Florida, USA
Thanks for the clarification, RAWA!

Walt

_________________
Image
walt: KI #00193642
walt scRIVENs


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 131 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron