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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:24 pm 
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It helped me decide I /didn't/ want to. I don't think that was the effect he was after, though...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:37 pm 
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I'm not Adam's biggest fan, but even I'll agree that the sarcastic answer Chogon gave there was unnecessary.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:58 pm 
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 Post subject: Cavcon Concerns
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Without looking back through all the pages here, what I did get was explorer donations are no longer covering operational expenses.

I stumbled back onto this CAVCON thread by chance and had long forgotten we had anything telling us the financial health of MOUL,a because I don't visit the forums that much anymore. ( :roll: Mostly because of negative unproductive posts and pissing contests! :roll: )

As a mostly CC Uru gamer that doesn't stick his head out of game much anymore, perhaps some device in-game like the Bevin/ hood Pellet score boards be used to present real time status to explorers as to the games financial health. . .
Maybe some Imager DRC Support List screen warning with; We will be closing down the cavern due to funding issues!
Or just maybe your CAVCON ranking thingy to indicate plus or minus status? Then a . . .
Please remember to donate and help the DRC effort to maintain and keep the Cavern and Ages open.

Even PBS understands the value in publicly posting names with announcements thanking their contributors.
Perhaps such a tried and proven method for maintaining some ongoing sustained donations for Uru using something as simple as the Imager screens for posting explorer donations could work well to help out?

Sometimes explorers could use some reminding to maintain donations and maybe doing so in a fun CC way it might help.
Off the top of my head many explorers are competitive, as well as bevin's with bevins and love the status they have and get, evidenced by amazing posted individual and bevin pellet scores!
I know I go WOW :shock: and do a double take when I have seen some scores! 8) Impressive!

Maybe, just maybe, the first New Game Content could be a City Imager that keeps and posts the DRC's financial status to maintaining the Cavern and Ages open with maybe just Bevin donations amounts listed on it and each bevin Imager can carry their own individual name member donators on their Image posted DRC Support List.

Or use something like the existing Kirel Welcome or Memorial Pub devices for posting a running list of the top ranking Bevin donators on one text screen level and all the others bevins on another screen level according to amount ranges?
Simple list of explorer names in maybe Categories of Monthly, Quarterly or Annually Status with maybe some assigned text color to indicate their amount range without using actual dollar/ Euro etc. . . amounts.
Perhaps an upgrade to their status as their own donations build up? Maybe like Forum Posts number status symbols?
Provide a check box with PayPal or credit-cards payment screens to allow for explorers the option to to see their name posted on their Bevin imager for DRC Support List.

People love to be recognized for being generous and others like competing!
I don't know how the D'ni ran their finances in-cavern but they did have a monetary system as most civilization do. Right?

It's is just a suggestion, so no need to go posting all ballistic over it!
With all negative comments as to how it couldn't, shouldn't, wouldn't work!
For a change, maybe some positive posts to how it might be done? Or just don't post at all on it please!


As to the NO NEW CONTENT = NO GROWTH.
I meet explorers even after 6 months to a year of playing have yet to get through all the existing Age content.
Shocked I took to asking many why? They say they intend to do it all eventually, but mostly just come into Uru to hang with new friends they made.
So as I understand it, many don't care about content old or new because they are about socializing in Uru game like a chat room.

As far as new content: I was intrigued about post of existing unfinished Cyan content and 2 additional Quest Games never released.
I don't know about how other explorers see Uru or count new game content.
But I do know that I have played many amazing and innovative Quest games over the years.
I also would like to think my own Quest Games be considered new game content and I did make them specifically as new game content for explorers that had played thru the Uru content.
I think for most explorers that are attracted to the Uru type game they are content with what there is and what is still left in-game too do!
Between making my own Quests Series of Games and playing others Quests, I would never have time for New Age content if I was to try to play all the existing Quests available already.
Regards, Jahmen


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:20 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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Jahmen wrote:
Go do crazy some place else, we're all stocked up here!

I read your signature four times. :lol: ..but I did read your whole post only once...nicely done

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:28 pm 
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Stay classy, Cyan. :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:36 pm 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
[MESSAGE SELF-REDACTED]

Stay classy. :roll:

"Whose house is of glass, must not throw stones at another." [George Herbert, 1651]

(Funny you should be editing your post, Adam . . . :twisted: )

(Even funnier that I should be, as well . . . I'll just keep the original around for safe-keeping . . . :twisted: )


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:51 pm 
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Sigh. Yeah, we don't care...

Fact is: this came to light because Chogon was looking to spend time working on MOULa.

True story from this week:

Chogon to The Powers That Be: I have a few spare cycles. I'd like to dip into the MOULa reserve to do some work on MOULa
TPTB: I'd love to let you, but we're currently using the reserves to fund what the monthly donations don't cover.
Chogon: Hmm... RAWA is still posting that donations are exceeding the server costs.
TPTB: Oh. Then there's been a misunderstanding. The servers are still being paid for by the donations, but we have been using the reserves to meet those costs for quite some time.
RAWA to TPTB: Ah. (resends the CAVCON definitions to TPTB). Let me know what the real numbers should have been all this time and I'll edit my post.
RAWA to Chogon: Some are going to accuse us of intentionally keeping this information from them. [As they have in the past.]
Chogon: Just tell them the truth - it was a miscommunication.
RAWA: Yeah. Won't stop the conspiracy theories, though.

----

So, Chogon posted an explanation of the relevant details from the above event, and, in less than an hour an "inquiry" is asked for, even though Chogon had already explained exactly what happened. There's nothing to inquire about.

I didn't read his conspiracy response as sarcastic, but as a joke. Since we were expecting conspiracy theories, he provided one for y'all. And it's funnier than my response would have been. :) When tensions weren't so high around here, I gave those kinds of posts frequently. However, I do sprinkle in smilies liberally, becauseI learned the hard way that humor does not come across well in text. :)


If you want to assign blame for the CAVCON misunderstanding, then blame me for not re-sending the CAVCON definitions each time I asked how the donations were doing. Just because I know the definitions backwards and forwards, and you all do, doesn't mean that TPTB remembered after the first month.

No lies, no conspiracies, just two different interpretations of the running question: "Are donations still covering expenses?". Mine meaning "Are this month's donations covering expenses?", TPTB meaning "Are all previous donations covering expenses?" (i.e. monthly + reserves).

Unfortunate - yes. Conspiracy - no.

So, by all means, don't take this as a warning flare that CAVCON donations aren't where Chogon and I thought/hoped they were, and don't look at the bright side that if donations were to pick up that Chogon might have a chance to spend some cycles on MOULa.

Instead, let's attack just each other. I'm sure that will help the situation immensely :).
^ (That's meant as a joke, not sarcasm.)
-- ^ (And that's not a joke or sarcasm.)

RAWA

PS. I'm about to post the updated CAVCON numbers with the data from TPTB after the CAVCON definition reminder.

PPS. Please note that Chogon doesn't care so much that he's provided new stats (Number of Unique Users per week, and monthly stats for 2011. :D) (See: that's a joke again.)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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Thanks RAWA . . . I Personally understood Chogon's first post perfectly and saw his second post as humor, and even chuckled . . . But I also appreciate your Post, attempting to set it all straight.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:18 pm 
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RAWA wrote:
There's nothing to inquire about.


There was "something to inquire about", from *our* perspective anyway, and that was: "how did this miscommunication happen so that it can be prevented in the future?" Given recent events, posts about "conspiracy theories" are naturally going to be taken the same way as other recent posts. The initial dialogue that you (RAWA) provided, minus the conspiracy theory remark, is what I was asking for.

RAWA wrote:
owever, I do sprinkle in smilies liberally, becauseI learned the hard way that humor does not come across well in text. :)


I have to agree with this. If there had been an XD or something at the end of Chogon's post, then I would have restated my request; however, such an emoticon was not present. Therefore, it came across as all the other posts I cited.

It's good to hear that MOULa is not in dire straits yet though. :)

--- EDIT ---
RAWA wrote:
I didn't read his conspiracy response as sarcastic, but as a joke. Since we were expecting conspiracy theories, he provided one for y'all. And it's funnier than my response would have been. :)


Keep in mind that we aren't inside your brains. ;) We only know what we see on this forum--and that is increasing distrust and distaste.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:53 pm 
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RAWA wrote:
Sigh. Yeah, we don't care...

Forgot a smiley there: [email protected] :)

Quote:
Fact is: this came to light because Chogon was looking to spend time working on MOULa.

Bug fixes? Incorporating changes from GoW? I'd donate if PayPal would let me, just so that I can see some improvements to the darn game.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:57 pm 
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Thanks RAWA and Chogon!

*is curious what Chogon was going to do before this shocking discovery was made*

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:58 pm 
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RAWA wrote:
Instead, let's attack just each other. I'm sure that will help the situation immensely :).
^ (That's meant as a joke, not sarcasm.)
-- ^ (And that's not a joke or sarcasm.)



/me sees the humour in that...

From Us ('Those of us that do not know where the other sites are that provide optional content..It seems secret'): We're thankful to the people @ Cyan for providing Us ('Those that do experience URU MOUL(a) Live through the Cyan server') a place to be one community..We give you ('All') a standing ovation for your extreme patience in keeping this open for more to discover.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:03 am 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
There was "something to inquire about", from *our* perspective anyway

Let me try again, then.

Please re-read the first paragraph in Chogon's initial post again, as it explains precisely what the miscommunication was, which is:

TPTB have been answering the question with monthly donations + reserves in mind (what they had come to think CAVCON was tracking), instead of just considering monthly donations (what I actually intended CAVCON to be tracking).

And since his post explains what the miscommunication was, logically, how it happened was likely to have already been sorted out by the time he posted (especially given the understandable nature of what the miscommunication was, which he explained), so further inquiry (inquiries made after his post) would be pointless.
Quote:
I do hope there will be an inquiry...
[emphasis mine] seems to imply Chogon's explanation about the miscommunication wasn't good enough, which we take to mean that you're really looking for an inquiry as to whom this should be blamed on, since that's the main piece of information missing from his explanation.

Chogon's answer: blame aliens. (clarification: "aliens" as in extraterrestrials, not the user named Alien. :)
My answer: feel free to blame me.

As for conspiracies: I would love to not expect accusations of conspiracies when these kinds of things happen, but I have roughly a decade of Uru experience starting from the first explorer flood in beta to the shutdown by Ubi to gameTap to when the MOULa login turnstile was broken and many, many others in between that clearly suggest otherwise. Our explanations, no matter how accurate, have never been sufficient to squelch the accusations. Such is life. And your request for further inquiry (after the explanation had been provided) certainly seemed to be another example of same.

Keep in mind that we aren't inside your brain. We only know what we've come to expect from certain explorers over the last decade+. Thanks for not letting us down. :D

Apologies to Zardoz' pony for repeated beatings. :p

RAWA

PS - thanks for the smiley, dragossh. :)

Edit: made two clarifications

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Last edited by RAWA on Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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