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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:55 pm 
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rsjm wrote:
While I can't speak for the company, I will speak for myself as a designer of this game. I would assume the company would agree but I will not be spokesman for them right now.

I am sorry.

It's incredibly frustrating that we couldn't fit all of you into a neighborhood at once and without trouble. It's incredibly frustrating that we can't get more of you into the city.

I'm not making excuses but I will say these things anyway:

First, we set records tonight for concurent users (by a long shot) as well as people in a neighborhood (over 180). To be honest, I wasn't expecting that many of you to bombard the hood to see Rand when a new Age is out. But you did and it was a big pain to try and get in.

Second, we are working on things to fix our problems. I know that gets old but I don't know what else I can say. We obviously haven't fixed them and that's all that matters to you. Still, know that we are working on solutions to these very annoying and frustrating problems.

Again, I'm sorry for those of you who were not able to participate tonight or for those of you who had an unpleasant experience.

Truly.


Thanks for the semi-official apology posted here and also Greydragon's above.

I must say though that I actually had a really good time with my daughter waiting in the UO hood for relayed chat. It really felt like a corporate experience. :) After everything crashed whilst trying to link into Minkata I went away for awhile and then came back and joined up with a few other explorers and entered Minkata.

What a kick! :D Completely lost. But what a good crowd to be lost with.

Looking forward to some more lost explorations with all of you. :D

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:07 pm 
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I really don't understand the complaints. There was lag, there were crashes, and there were crowds. We WANT crowds. And unfortunately, most online games with large crowds result in lag and crashes for a good while when they're getting started. The maker knows that Star Wars Galaxies and World of Warcraft certainly had their problematic startup phases.

To me, it feels like Uru has had an unusually long startup.... but a startup nontheless. A period of time for the first sets of players to get used to things, a period for problems to get hammered out by one team, while another team goes on to get more and more content ready for the teeming masses. But at Cyan, there's not enough people to split into these perfectly running teams. Heck, as it is, as much as I've LOVED Scars so far (even though content scheduling still sits weird with me, I will say that I'm still loving the results), I get the feeling that our friends at Cyan Worlds nearly killed themselves this week keeping things moving.

Besides all of this... even with the lag, I can't imagine anyone having that bad of a time. We got a HUGE new age, with an incredible puzzle to wrap our heads around, it just might have taken a few tries to successfully get there. And you know what? Like most big content releases in most online games, even if Uru ever reaches an incredibly clean and smoothly running engine, the masses that will turn out for these events will more likely than not... result in problems.

I literally ran all the way from work to my house to make sure I'd be able to make it in time for the event... because I wanted to be at this historic moment with my friends in the community. And trust me, it takes me two hours to get home from work on foot and via bus, so that's no small task.

Don't take things so seriously. Stuff will go wrong. But when it does, step over the mess and keep having fun... there's always plenty to do, even if it doesn't go flawlessly.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:05 pm 
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I really appreciate the responses from rsjm and GreyDragon, it's always great just hearing from you guys and it's one of many differences that make Cyan not just a big faceless company.

I too had my own issues with this past episode, but in comparison to some of you I think they were more minor.

I was able to get into the City and into various Hoods on a number of occasions when the DRC staff were doing their thing, and this past week was actually the first time I've been able to do that, so it was a new and fun experience for me. Having a Bahro link almost directly behind me was very exciting.

Last Mysterium I had the opportunity to meet Rand in person, and I would have likely gone to the Beginner's Bevin, had I not seen the numbers. For me, there is a point where the lag and possible link in problems start to outweigh the fun of meeting DRC and Cyan staff. 5 hours before the event there were already 60 people there, and I wasn't about to try and get in with 160+. That's just insane.

None the less, Cyan did send out other people into other hoods, Safety First 243 for example had a nice short visit from both GreyDragon and rsjm, thanks guys for that. :)

But obviously the servers were stressed beyond what they could handle because even smaller populated hoods began having issues.

I don't deny that URU still needs a lot of work, and my previous posts have been rather critical of Cyan, but it's also obvious that Cyan knows about these issues and is working within their resources to continue improving URU, and for that I'm very thankful.

These sweeps weeks were to draw in the numbers, and I think it's safe to say we got some numbers. :) I had fun.


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 Post subject: STRESS TEST?
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:09 pm 
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Surely if we all realised that a stress test was needed now and again we would be glad to participate, in the interest of improving the experience. Why instead invite us all to an event that inevitably was going to get into trouble, disappointing and infuriating many people?


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:17 am 
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The Noble Robot wrote:
It's your kind of dismissing attitude, more even than the problems themselves, that makes this process annoying.

I understand your point. Criticism needs to be heard. I wrote my post because I was genuinely sorry for Cyan. Sorry that at the height of this episode, at the culmination of all their hard work, this forum was overflowing with furious people berating Cyan about issues they are well and truly aware of and working their asses off to fix, and demanding apologies from them.

I loved Scars, probably because I recognise Cyan's limitations. When I am faced with frustration, I recognise the situation for what it is and I don't throw chairs around the room and rip into the people that are doing their best to meet our expectations.

Cyan is not a faceless company. It is a group of people who are striving their hardest to make this work and would love nothing more than for everyone to be happy, and I truly felt sorry that at a time that should have been a celebration for them, they were dealing with angry players expecting apologies. I wanted them to know that for every livid voice on these forums, there are many others who are thankful for what they have.

That said, I have already stated elsewhere that I know that these forums are the voice of the disaffected and wanting, and that criticism is important to enhancing the game. I didn't intend to silence anyone or hinder their expression. I just wanted my voice to be heard too.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:42 pm 
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Gelleron Sansto wrote:
Here's some screen shots of the link-in area a full 2+ hours before Rand appeared.....

[spoiler]

Image
Image
Image Image [/spoiler]


I must say, that this is really how crowded I would like the bevins to be on a regular basis. Instead of just a ring of people around the fountain, there are people on balconies, in the garden, walking along the river, and waiting in the auditorium.. Basically people living and enjoying the affordances of the space they are in, doing all the things that people would normally do in a physical space so intimate and inviting as the Bevins. There must have been dozens of overlapping conversations and chatter. The bevin wasn't echoing with a few voices, I can imagine it practically roaring with the white noise of multiple conversations. In other words, these pictures give me an idea of what Uru Live and the Bevins could become - a true living space, not just a pretty chat room.

All other issues aside, the fact that 150+ people can be in a Bevin simultaneously gives me hope for the future of Uru!

-K

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:52 pm 
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Things will only get better. City limit is now 50. Bevin limit seems to be about 150. That's now. I'm sorry if it takes too long for some people for improvements to show up, but I too am sure that Cyan is working on the problem.


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:34 pm 
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I like to think of myself as objective and fair, though I think sometimes I can do a better job of it. I've given some high praise and harsh criticisms to Cyan, the game, and the community, but with the knowing that Cyan does its best with what they have and hoping without expectation that they might even take my thoughts into consideration.

But I never once demanded an apology. This thread and some of the juvenile me-me-me want-it-now attitude of spoiled brats at Christmas is a gross embarrassment to me as a member of the community and a fan. While I always encourage and appreciate communication and feedback from Cyan, to see them forced to needlessly humble themselves before this selfishness just makes me sad.

I saw all Cyan's hard work with story well executed and Minkata is a beautiful new experience heavy in the tradition of all their classics. I hope to savor my time there, slowly, and patiently enjoy the extended pleasure of exploration rather than ripping it open for instant gratification just to spoil it for others. I am at peace with the knowledge that I can take my time, knowing my turn will come. Like with any good relationship, I can happily wait a few moments because I know it will be there for a good long time.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:02 pm 
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nebodin wrote:
........
Cyan is not a faceless company. It is a group of people who are striving their hardest to make this work and would love nothing more than for everyone to be happy, and I truly felt sorry that at a time that should have been a celebration for them, they were dealing with angry players expecting apologies. I wanted them to know that for every livid voice on these forums, there are many others who are thankful for what they have.
....... I didn't intend to silence anyone or hinder their expression. I just wanted my voice to be heard too.


Thank you for saying this, nebodin! I feel the same but couldn't find a constructive way to express it.

I hung out in a very crowded Guild of Greeters bevin, listening to relays and the interspersed chatter of the crowd. It was fun! When I heard that there was a stampede to the Minkata book, I decided to wait and get it later when things calmed down. I wasn't disappointed.

And, anyway, what's the rush?


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:32 pm 
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Quote:
But last night, when Rand Miller suggested dancing to crash Uru, I didn't find it amusing at all.


Rand has a pretty wry sense of humor, and I wouldn't be surprised if this comment was meant to be a friendly, but suggestive, dig at GameTap. GD mentioned above that Rand waited in the Dark Ages himself for 25 minutes before finally getting in to the 'hood. So he's certainly aware of the problems we're facing, having been there and done that himself. Meaning... reporting to GameTap that there was considerable link lag is one thing. Reporting to GameTap that one of their premier titles crashed from sheer popularity is quite another, and I wonder if that's what Rand was implying. You know, sort of like "GameTap wants to see numbers... how's THIS for numbers!"

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:06 pm 
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Quote:
This thread and some of the juvenile me-me-me want-it-now attitude of spoiled brats at Christmas is a gross embarrassment to me as a member of the community and a fan. While I always encourage and appreciate communication and feedback from Cyan, to see them forced to needlessly humble themselves before this selfishness just makes me sad.


Okay, that's downright nasty. I am a relatively new player. I've been a Mac owner since 1999, so Uru has been a part of my reality since November 2006. Sorry to say this, but I came to Uru via GameTap, my experience has been solely with GameTap, and since I am paying GameTap to play this game, it is NOT wrong to expect GameTap to provide the service they are heavily advertising.

Not all of us have been here since the inception of Uru, hence we don't know the back story, and certainly don't know Cyan other than knowing the Rand Brothers developed the Myst franchise. And we shouldn't be expected to know that "this is so much better than the old days, when the servers were hobbling along and people were lucky to be able to log on at all".

The is so much history that others like me are not privy to. Scolding us like we're petulant children is not a way to attract new people to the game, or encourage them to stay.

I didn't DEMAND an apology, I hold the Cyan company in highest regard, but my vocal displeasure with GAMETAP on the night of a heavily advertised meet and greet does NOT deserve this vitriolic response.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:13 pm 
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greydragon wrote:
I, like rsjm, am sorry that you had a bad experience.


Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:23 pm 
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To me, the most embarrassing thing about the Uru fan community is how intolerant it is of those who voice complaints about Cyan and its products.


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:53 pm 
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Dr Britcom Mom wrote:
And we shouldn't be expected to know that "this is so much better than the old days, when the servers were hobbling along and people were lucky to be able to log on at all".


Back in my day, I had to walk to Uru, through the snow, and I liked it. :P

Anyway, I agree with you, again, that they ought not to have invited so many people to an event that there was only a small chance of attending, without some sort of "first come first served" disclaimer, or something.

Although now that I think about it, there were apparently 180 people in there when Rand showed up... if almost 200 made it, imagine how many must have tried. I don't think they're lying when they say that they didn't anticipate these numbers.

I really would like to see Rand make some sort of follow-up appearance or statement, not necessarily to apologize, but to give the people who missed out a better chance to "meet" him.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:21 am 
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No one owes you an apology.

You are not special.

Carry on.

[EDIT] Ok that was a little curt. How about this:

Two Options:
Option 1 - Cyan intentionally planned the minkata-release and fanboy-night at the same time to truly test server load.

Option 2 - No one working behind the scenes of Uru has heard of foresight, ever.

Either way, no one owes you an apology. You are not unique or special in any way. Run yourself down the flagpole.

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