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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:17 am 
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Location: Houston, Texas
I should just shut up. :P

I thought I said they were estimates and not the actual numbers. (shrug)

I probably ought to leave the community entirely. I do too many stupid things here. I do stupid things wherever I go and am apparently unable to learn from my mistakes.

*sigh*

As for advertising realistically, I think I am, I think there's a lot of great stuff in Uru already, and will be a lot of great stuff from the fans, and there is at least a possibility that Cyan will make content in the future.

As for spamming, yeah, I know the risks I'm taking here, and that some of the kinds of advertising I use could be considered spamming.

That's why the disclaimer exists on the website, it states that the promo page is not endorsed/approved by Cyan.

I'm in the unpleasant position of trying repeatedly to entertain or do something constructive, but being so utterly devoid of common sense and social perception that every single thing I do or say seems to backfire and hurt people. Maybe the best way I can help is just to get out of the way.

I need to become a quiet fan, the sort who doesn't talk to anyone but makes worlds now and then.

The best way for me to improve the world is to separate myself from it entirely.

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a Myst fansite, and
various other stuff.


Last edited by matthornb on Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:03 am 
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Matt, Matt, Matt.... You don't need to get out of the way or 'quiet down'. Separatism isn't the answer either; even the Amish and Hutterites have their share of problems. Social perception/ineptitude/grace... why do you think men get married!? :D

As far as my comment on the previous post. I was just indicating that Cyan could do much more at the 500,000 subscriber level: ie your numbers were conservative. $2.1mill/mo. would give a lot of opportunity.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:54 am 
I second that, Matt. Your voice and your enthusiasm are going to be sorely needed. I'm not one of those who think that we should be pushing for growth with MORE right away, but I still want it to be as successful as it can be without losing its essential qualities, and once we've got a solid foundation beneath us who knows what we might be able to do.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:24 pm 
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Matt, your enthusiasm and generosity is commendable. I sincerely doubt that you're lacking all the qualities you listed, but you could learn to not be so easily discouraged by criticism and use it to improve your ideas. After all, that's what forums are all about - brainstorming together and picking ideas apart until all the muck is gone and we're left with something of real value. Don't give up. Right now, more than ever, we need people who are willing to stick their necks out a little.

Now, while I agree with promoting Uru, I don’t like it when it feels like we’re trying to “hurry up and get lots of players so Cyan can afford to give us new content.” This is a grass roots effort which, to me, means that it needs to build up gradually and steadily so that, in the end, it will have a more solid foundation than in the past. I believe that if we focus our efforts and energy on building a better Uru, the word will get out and gradually spread.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:57 pm 
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Now, while I agree with promoting Uru, I don’t like it when it feels like we’re trying to “hurry up and get lots of players so Cyan can afford to give us new content.” This is a grass roots effort which, to me, means that it needs to build up gradually and steadily...
I couldn't agree more. I keep thinking of the phrase "Baby steps". We may all want to fly, but we have to learn to walk and then run first.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:33 pm 
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Ok. Gradually and steadily. It's probably better to have a steady stream of people coming in and becoming acclimated to the game than a huge burst all at once that disrupts the community atmosphere Uru has.

Sorry for overreacting. I'm just emotional sometimes.

I'm not going to do anything severely self-destructive, I'm not going to overreact too much, and I'm not going to leave entirely though I think there are some things I ought to shut up about.

You are good people and I am sorry for being so weird. I have a whole laundry list of mental illnesses so I am an emotionally fragile, seriously flawed person.

I won't keep pouring money into the ad campaign, but I will let the amount I've already spent run its course. If I ever do advertising in the future I'll make sure it is not in any way anything close to "spam", not that this was spam but much of it wasn't particularly likeable advertising either.

As for taking criticism, I need to learn that, yeah. I'm highly neurotic and have OCD, so any critique I receive gets looped through my head about twenty times or so and I sort of let it condemn me.

God has to constantly keep telling me he loves me, he cares about me, I'm not horrible, etc, though it is sometimes hard to believe him.

(crying)

It is important to recognize the innate value of all human beings as God's creation (oneself and others), people Jesus cared about so much that he died for us - to let God define who people are and how much they are worth instead of allowing people to define who people are.

I need to base my identity on what God says. Not what I feel or what I say/think or what the devil says or what others say.

That is one of a laundry list of my personal weaknesses.

I am a terrible example of a Christian; the story of my life is not about anything good that I did or was but all the times God forgave me and loved me even at my absolute worst, and gave me enough strength to keep living when I felt discouraged, hopeless, emotionally and psychologically wrecked.

I don't want to preach, I just want to say from experience that God is good even though I'm not; don't let my bad behavior and my failure as a Christian (and indeed, the sin and judgemental actions of any other Christians) harm your view of Jesus himself because he really is kind and good and compassionate.

And to all of you I want to say I'm really sorry and I will learn from this; any time I make an estimate in the future I must make VERY clear that it is an estimate and not actual data; and I will learn that Uru ought to be grown steadily, not all at once, through promotional methods that do not annoy people.

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a Myst fansite, and
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:40 pm 
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Matt please stay with us. You care and we all care and we all care together. Together we will make the Journey and Together we will return to the Cavern and that will do as much as anything to bring in new people and to open the future for us all. We need ALL of us, and so please keep with us. thanks and a hug.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:02 pm 
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I am a terrible example of a Christian; the story of my life is not about anything good that I did or was but all the times God forgave me and loved me even at my absolute worst...


...which is the condition of ANY Christian! There's no way we can earn our way into a relationship with God. We can accept the free gift he offers, and then trust him to keep his side of the agreement. And he tends to keep his promises! ;) I take huge comfort in that, and you can too.

That just needed to be said - back to topic.

Mowog

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:33 pm 
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Matt, it seems to me that you want some confirmation - am I doing the right thing? Am I doing too much or not enough, as a fan? If I was in your shoes, I would send Chogon a PM and see what he says. Give him a link to your site and ask him what he thinks. Then you would know if you were on the right track on not. I seem to remember that Chogon said that we should do fan stuff but not formal marketing. If you are unclear, Chogon could help clear it up. It doesn't hurt to ask - Mark (Chogon) is nice.

I also think that no one person can "save" Uru. Uru is either going to be successful, or it's not. By successful, I mean that there will be players happily playing Uru, and the costs are in-line with the money that comes in. I think that all we can do is enjoy Uru, when it comes back. If we want to spread the word, as a fan, that's great. If it was me, I'd leave all those official marketing things to Cyan, but again, that's me.

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Last edited by mszv on Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:01 pm 
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Matt, I took at look at your website http://www.urucontinues.com and I don't see why Cyan would have a problem with it. Its a fan site devoted to Uru, that describes the game, gives links to important sites about the game. It advertises the game, but from a fan viewpoint and not an official one. So to me it seems okay.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:05 am 
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Location: lurking form behind a Bahro shadow
have never understood why the "expansion pack" model could not be used to draw revenue.

It werks .

although URU is such the different game, it baffles me why a bi-annual or even annual ex-pack has not ever really been used. It would pay for the new content and for it's development.

many games use this model successfully.

at $6.00 a month for online connect and a bi-annual ex-pack around 25-30 dollars, i believe more subscribers would be attracted and there would be some sort of constant revenue to continue development. the ex-packs could even werk as time-release capsules that would release bits of content over preset periods of time (either from implementation or from time of installation) thus giving value to the time between ex-packs.

sorry to be off topic ..... it just has been a bug in my head for a while that new content is worth money and this seems to be a reasonable way to keep both sides happy and moving forward.

I hope for new content from Cyan. but at the current state of the game and its release I do not expect to see any for a long time ...if ever.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:19 pm 
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I don't think "Cyan content" is necessarily an all-or-nothing thing. There are definitely different content levels that would be possible.

For example, it wouldn't be a major use of Cyan resources to have an employee log into a DRC member account or play a Bahro and visit the city to interact with explorers. It isn't entirely without cost, as the employee would presumably be on the clock and it would involve some story planning, but it also doesn't take a lot of time and there's no technical work involved. Slightly above that, you would have something like a journal-- it has to be written and also created visually, so it's more work than a character appearance, but the demands it places aren't heavy compared to other things Cyan might do. Creating a small area like a Pod isn't the same amount of work as creating a huge Age like Teledahn or Kadish Tolesa. And so on.

I'm not saying Cyan will or won't do any or all of these things at some point in the future. I really have no idea. But while we're speculating, I think we may as well remember that not all content is equally demanding. Cyan might be able to, for example, have Phil visit and talk some lovable crazy, even if they didn't have the ability to make the next Teledahn. I don't think the only options are a full-out MOUL or a static UU; I think there's actually quite a lot of middle ground. I suspect if there was Cyan content in the future, it would start small rather than just suddenly being at full force.

And heck, it might always be the small things. I actually think the overarching plot elements are more important than the Age content, because it would tie Uru together into a coherent entity rather than an all-but-random collection of Ages. Since the DRC/Bahro/Yeesha plotline defines our reasons for being in the Cavern in the first place, I'd hate to see all that dropped entirely if there's any way for Cyan to continue it-- whether or not they're making Ages. I want to see fan plots too, of course; the Cyan plot, or at least scenario, would just provide some context for everything else. I hope that's one way in which we will eventually see content from Cyan.

Since the cost question has come up... I agree that Uru is worth $25 a month. I'm just not sure I have the ability to pay it. I think by charging significantly more than they did before, not to mention significantly more than their competitors, they would lose people rather than growing the game. So I hope the cost doesn't get super high to try to offset development costs, should they decide to develop further. I think $25 for six months is more than reasonable, even without new Cyan content.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:57 am 
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I agree with Soupfork. Periodic expansion packs seem to me to be the way to go. This was a big issue when people were saying things like "that's not what URU Live is" but, well, I think the "live' element as conceived in the past been problematic and has gotten in the way of what I value most as a Cyan customer since the original MYST: quality content.

Just my opinion.

Cheers
8)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:06 am 
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I think that expansion packes AKA episodes won't go that well.Personally I think the ultimate goal for EVERYONE,cyan worlds AND fans,is:

Fans make MOUL successful by advertising it to other people and developing the game from inside with new fan made content WHILE cyan worlds are working on other,more selling titles to keep them selfs up,as nobody wants cyan worlds will be dying again ------------------> cyan worlds gets more money from the popular MOUL,and probably from other games/game they do -------------------> cyan worlds hires many emplyees -----------------> cyan worlds returnes to develop to the game,using the original format,but with more events and a better told story (as in prologue), giving us higher quality content,and fixing and additing the existing the lower quality content or any other thing that needed to be fixed (MOUL new content,TPOTS content,TD content,ABM content).

Everybody are happy! :D

But right now,we are in phace 1.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:59 am 
I'd say we're in phase zero, or we will be when MORE is up. Advertising it at all in the first six months would be trying to run before we've got any legs. Before we start pushing MORE to anyone outside the community (if we even do), Cyan needs to get the mechanisms for incorporating UCC sorted out, and we need to put our money where our mouths are and provide some.

I say "if we even do" not because I want to keep my ghetto insular and exclusive (I do not) but because Uru has been made generally available twice now, and has not been successful either time. I want a good long pause before we start trying to draw other people in. Which would you rather advertise: the same Uru that's been put out twice before with the possibility of some new content down the line, or an Uru that's been going for a year or two years and has twenty or thirty good new Ages to explore that no-one outside the community has ever seen, and more coming along every month?

Let Cyan look after their own finances. They're older and wiser now and can be trusted to look after themselves. For us, and for MORE, let's put on the brakes, check the rear and side view mirrors, and make sure we've got enough gas to make it before we accelerate on to the freeway.


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