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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:29 am 
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Hello everyone,

Will we be able to use current Uru media for our own Ages? For example, If I created and Age with water in it, would I be allowed to use Cyan's Uru textures and sounds for the water?

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:36 am 
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An excellent question, I was wondering this myself.

Textures are, IMHO, one of the harder aspects of any 3D animation. Having access to the textures already present in URU would really help us, especially those who might want to create areas of the city (within the limits stipulated by CYAN, of course).

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:20 am 
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We are allowed to link to existing Cyan resources, but we cannot redistribute them.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:26 am 
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Edit: Paradox to the question.

The fact this question gets asked ties in with my complaint about the Guilds system - too much stuff is off-site, and the introduction posts are very vague. Not that this is exactly a Guilds-related question, but it sort of is peripherally.

For myself, I hope to be getting ahold of a nice digital camera later this year, and I'll be using it to take pictures of stuff that should be very appropriate for textures.

Of course, being denied access to Cyan's textures would be a huge mistake, but we could get past it with a lot of end user work.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the areas in Uru have specific textures that are unique to certain areas, and reusing them with abandon would be a detriment to the game's look and feel. I haven't looked really carefully to see how much certain textures are re-used, but it's not like a first-person shooter where you have lots of generalized placeholder textures for metal walls, concrete etc.

I don't see how we could be having discussions about having a user area with a view of the Lake (which is permitted, with caveats and oversight) without being able to reuse some city textures.

On the other hand, it seems inappropriate to me to reuse art gallery (for example) textures, or the stained glass windows, on an unrelated building... the D'ni were more creative than that (although those windows, with the nobility portraits, are uhhgly).


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:44 am 
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I don't see why they wouldn't let us use their Uru resources (as the above poster said, as long as they aren't redistributed).

Lots of people probably just want to do ages similar to say, Gahreesen, maybe even alternate versions or other areas of pre-existing ages. Textures hurt. Letting us use theirs will be a big help.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:48 am 
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Ed Oscuro wrote:
Edit: Paradox to the question.

The fact this question gets asked ties in with my complaint about the Guilds system - too much stuff is off-site, and the introduction posts are very vague. Not that this is exactly a Guilds-related question, but it sort of is peripherally.

For myself, I hope to be getting ahold of a nice digital camera later this year, and I'll be using it to take pictures of stuff that should be very appropriate for textures.

Of course, being denied access to Cyan's textures would be a huge mistake, but we could get past it with a lot of end user work.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the areas in Uru have specific textures that are unique to certain areas, and reusing them with abandon would be a detriment to the game's look and feel. I haven't looked really carefully to see how much certain textures are re-used, but it's not like a first-person shooter where you have lots of generalized placeholder textures for metal walls, concrete etc.

I don't see how we could be having discussions about having a user area with a view of the Lake (which is permitted, with caveats and oversight) without being able to reuse some city textures.

On the other hand, it seems inappropriate to me to reuse art gallery (for example) textures, or the stained glass windows, on an unrelated building... the D'ni were more creative than that (although those windows, with the nobility portraits, are uhhgly).


So far, nobody has brought that up, since all of the fan Ages up untl this point have always been writing by explorers, not parts of D'ni, or involving a D'ni storyline. We were originally told back in 2005 that all of that was off-limits, and it remained that way until RAWA's post.

We have been given permissions by Cyan to use any of their existing sound files, provided that we do not redistribute them.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:53 am 
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Paradox, I've been reading some of your posts (and I read the recent Forum Q&A type session with RAWA about avoiding conflicts with fan Ages, and you seem to be one of the people to go to on these questions. So here's a new question:

It seems to me - and correct me if this is a wrong conception - that the prohibition against tying fan Ages to core Cyan-made story content and characters does not preclude fans from writing groups of Ages that tell a story.

Remember, for example, the constellation of various Ages in Uru connected by a single character. That story was also remarkable since it was tied to the Grower, which seems to be out of bounds for fan Ages.

From what I understand, tying a fan Age story to the Grower is out.

But fans can make their own "startling revelations" in fan Ages, right? So long as they aren't really revelations, but perhaps reinforcements of what is already known.

I suppose you folks will have to help me come up with some test ideas for fan Age stories that could be compelling but also meet the criteria; I can't think of any at the moment (I am hungry though, mmm time to visit a food Age).

Of course, it seems to me that if we make anything good enough, Cyan might decide to make it official and perhaps put some definites on it.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:13 am 
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I'm not the best person to ask about storyline stuff, I've always ben of the mind that my Ages were written in the present day, by me.

RAWA's guidelines [http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15890] are a good start, but I'm hoping we get more clarification and more guidelines.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:19 am 
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The original thread question is will we be allowed to use Myst textures and sounds?

I dont see Cyan forth coming with that type of thing,yet. The tools exist, and free in many cases, to recreate sounds and textures. As an individual learns the ART part of that is also sound and texture.

Yes it would be nice to have sounds/textures be open source for the community. However lets also remember the effort Cyan put forth in getting each of them.

AGE creation should be a Guild effort of all the Guilds. From the GoW to those that do sound and art etc. AGE creation is not a one man undertaking reallly. I dont think Cyan can create an AGE with just one person. The more that are involved the better the AGE will be.

Sounds/textures open source for the Guilds? Just have to see how Cyan takes to that idea and what commitment they make to assisting the explorer in AGE creation. AGE creation is the hope of Cyan for the explorer so open source of code/sounds/textures etc, I think would be a part of that. If things arent open source then AGE creation really is just pie in the sky at best.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:26 am 
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I didn't mean to make it easymode for us, I meant for things like water. Having two ages with completely different looking water would be kind of strange.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:17 pm 
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Cyan_Husky wrote:
I didn't mean to make it easymode for us, I meant for things like water. Having two ages with completely different looking water would be kind of strange.

Well the problem with that is that Cyan uses varying textures for water in the Cleft ad in Ahnonay, for example. Also, most of Cyan's water is made up of wavesets, flat objects which have an animated ripply pattern. So if we all use wavesets we can have identical water, but if not it's no big deal. For some more complex things (waterfalls, for example) it might be easier for Cyan to release those than have us make them (though, in this example, the texture's already being made quite nicely)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:19 pm 
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Okay, let me explain something here: water

The way that the water is made and rendered to look like the water we see in Uru is through Wavesets

This is done with Alcscripting.....NOT textures of any kind. So that rippling, moving, reflecting water you see in Er'cana, Teledahn, Gahreesen, etc, is done this way, and is the way we do it too. So no textures for water are being used or borrowed from Cyan.

So the water will look the same in many cases.......but not the same either since it's reflective and will be reflecting the enviorment around it.

Now as to other textures and sounds.....

As Paradox stated, Cyan told us we could link them in our ages, but not distribute them as they are official game files.

This means if I want to use the same waterfall sound you hear in Gira, I can put in the sound emitters in my Age, and in the scripting I can say to use the same file that Cyan uses for that sound effect, but I can NOT include that sound file with the Age. This should be fine since that sound file will already be on someone else's computer anyway if they have a legal copy of the game.
Let's face it: Cyan already has some great SFX with Uru, and it's a lot easier to use one of their files. It also makes the downloading of the Ages faster since we're not having to include those files.

Textures are a bit of a different matter.
The textures for the game itself are located inside the prp files for the game. Many of these textures were made specifically for something in that Age: IE shadows for something, wall glyphs in Kemo, etc. So many of them you'd not want to use anyway. But they do have some other good textures.....
But we were told for the longest time: NO, with one exception: linking panels.
But again, if I put in a linking book in one of my Ages, that links to say, Kemo, I can use the linking panel texture for Kemo, but only if I POINT to it in the Python scripting. Not actually put the texture in my Age's prp files.

While I understand it would be easier to use a texture Cyan made, making your own textures will give your Age a unique flavor. You won't have anyone pointing to something saying "Hey, I remember seeing that same kind of rock in Gira!" or anything like that.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:40 pm 
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Will we be able to?

I don't know.

Personally, I think if Cyan wants to keep control over the player created ages, they should provide a decent texture library. I think that's something that would save a LOT of hassle.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:36 pm 
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I'm pretty sure Cyan will not let us use their textures. Remember they told us not to try to make something to expand the existing ages, specifically the City. So I think we'll have to make our own textures in cases we need to match ours with the existing ones made by Cyan. When I modelled the Nick's office, I just imitated walls and floor textures. I modelled folding chairs similar to those you can see at Tokotah and made similar textures. It may be simpler than it may seem, because you can use the same original photo textures Cyan artists used to make their textures, look at mayang.com or cgtextures.com for example.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:50 pm 
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We're not supposed to add on to *specific* areas of the cavern, but we can have something that's in the cavern itself. For those areas, it would be better to use the standard brown cavern wall texture, as well as maybe some of the floors and designs common throughout Ae'gura and the Neighborhoods. Nexus pedestals, as well, share a common design. I hope Cyan at least lets us use stuff like that, since it may be necessary to get the same "flavor" of the places, especially things like new neighborhood layouts.


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