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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:13 am 
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Another thought. Sorry, this needs to be completely OOC. It seems reasonable that Cyan (i.e. RAWA) had prepared more of the language than has been revealed so far. Presumably, just like there were ages "In the Pipe"; there were also documents, words, grammar and so forth ready for later release. My question - is this going to be released also and should it? The fun of the language part of the story was the slow ongoing discovery. I don’t think just dumping it into the open would be the best use of the stuff. I know others will disagree. That's OK.

Second thought: In English, they say you will have no trouble reading any newspaper if you know about five thousand words of English. A real creative project would be to prepare a set of documents, letters, signs, and music, whatever, to gradually reveal those five thousand words in D'ni. The finding of these things should be scattered through out the newly created content.

Lastly, I do fear that if everyone is free to invent additions to the language we will build a new Tower of Babel. Somehow, it all needs to be coordinated.

This probably should go on the DLF site but it wouldn't let me start a new topic.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:27 am 
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This is not the impression I got from RAWA's post at the D'ni Linguistic Fellowship Forums.

Seems like we know most if not all of the language info developed by Cyan (RAWA) and that he, lacking time to develop it on his own, has opened the field for suggestions.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:28 am 
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Then the second thought is even more valid, I think.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:44 am 
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Very true. I was only really responding to one line.. that being

Shorahmin wrote:
[RAWA] prepared more of the language than has been revealed so far.


I do think putting the results of the language project into newly created content is a great idea, and as for the way to centralize the developments, (and prevent your explosion of conflicting information) RAWA has already provided a way. (though I'm not sure how often he currently watches that forum)

Another question is exactly how this info could be worked into fan created content under the guidelines... those being that we don't contradict canon or reveal new information about existing areas and characters... (which does leave the door pretty wide open, but if you want to pull something like this off, you'll need a plan)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:59 am 
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Sha'eri described a possible Literacy Age for teaching the D'ni alphabet and basic vocabulary on the GoW site.

As Sha'eri wrote in her introduction:
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Ever since I started out in Myst, I've been fascinated by the glyphs, numbers and all of the components of the spoken language. But, we all have to learn our alphabet before we can write, right?

I was wondering if anyone had the time/expertise to help me out with this. Remember, I'm a texture artist and I've been skinning 3D models for over 4 years now. I'm just not skilled in building 3D models or how it works.

I started to try to describe directly what I would like to see in an age that would teach me the basics, a kind of interactive Rehevkor.

Anyhow...well, I fell flat while trying to describe it in written (technical) format, because all truth be told, I wouldn't know where to start to build something like this. So, since I don't know all of the technical mumbo-jumbo that would go into pulling it off, I'd prefer if you saw it with me through the eyes of a 7-year-old D'ni girl, with her adult self telling the tale of her first day at school.

It's a beautiful story (well worth reading), and could make a great Age through which explorers could learn.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:05 pm 
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Sha'eri's idea is wonderful! Is anyone working on this?

I'm not a linguist, not even as a hobby, so I'm going to remain an interested observer of this discussion. It takes me back 35 years or so to the early "Elvish after Tolkien" discussions. In that case, though, there was plentiful additional material, much of which still has not seen the light of day.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Some various random thoughts: RAWA's comment from 2007 no longer applies. Nor does it imply that he does not have other partially or fully prepared material.

The gradual revealing of the language through and part of new content is precisely canonical. That is how Cyan did it and that (To me) would be the most satisfying.

We need to understand that fruther development of the language cannot depend on RAWA or Cyan in general. He might win the lottery and move to Italy. :lol: Cyan might hit it big in the fresh produce business and never return to the Myst related projects. :lol: :lol:

So as above, we need a plan and the plan can't be contingent on Cyan's help or guidance.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:14 pm 
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I don't think you'll get much agreement with that view. The D'ni language is still Cyan IP.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:02 pm 
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Of course it's their intellectual property. All of it is. That isn't the issue. The question is how much will they be able/willing to contribute in the future? IMO, they've made it clear that it will mostly be up to us now.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:36 pm 
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What I wouldn't like to see though is fan-made inscriptions or carving in D'ni, where words that haven't been revealed or created yet they simply just make up themselves. I mean, sure, anything goes for "rogue shards", but if there's any type of Guild-run canonical server (where I'll be spend 99% of my time), that sort of thing shouldn't fly.

The ideal would for RAWA to resume the DLRP, but that may or may not be feasible. The project could conceivably go on without him, though we should have permission from him before we carry on with it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:27 pm 
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There is much that remains to be studied in what we have, both in terms of the linguistic dataum we have already recieve and the culture and the history. We have continued to achieve decryption and interpretation that seems valid and useful duirnig the time that the Cavern has been closed since last year, and I certainly think we can continue the study of the language without having to assume any kind of direction ourselves. That remains for Cyan to decide imho and i look forward to continuing reserach and sharing with collegues in this work. It will be much easier and more done i am sure, once we are able to "return".

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:12 am 
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The thing about the DLRP was that RAWA had the final say. There was some great suggestions and debate, but ultimately he had to be the one to check to ensure that fan suggestions did not contradict anything he'd already worked out. The problem with this situation is that once he no longer had the time to actively participate in the experiment, progress slowed to a standstill and even though I wish he had the time for it, I'm okay with that.

One thing you'll find about some fans of D'ni Linguistics is that the point isn't necessarily just to hurry up and complete more words. It's a love affair with the nuances and discovery, much like discovering new ages or solving the puzzles. In essence it really is a puzzle, but one with no end (which for me is the beauty of it). I kind of like the fact that everything we have learned about the D'ni language to date has been learned slowly over time - piece by piece, fragment by fragment - often with very long periods without new discoveries. That's just fine with me. It makes it seem more real and exciting when something new is unearthed.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:34 pm 
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Deius wrote:
The thing about the DLRP was that RAWA had the final say. There was some great suggestions and debate, but ultimately he had to be the one to check to ensure that fan suggestions did not contradict anything he'd already worked out. The problem with this situation is that once he no longer had the time to actively participate in the experiment, progress slowed to a standstill and even though I wish he had the time for it, I'm okay with that.

One thing you'll find about some fans of D'ni Linguistics is that the point isn't necessarily just to hurry up and complete more words. It's a love affair with the nuances and discovery, much like discovering new ages or solving the puzzles. In essence it really is a puzzle, but one with no end (which for me is the beauty of it). I kind of like the fact that everything we have learned about the D'ni language to date has been learned slowly over time - piece by piece, fragment by fragment - often with very long periods without new discoveries. That's just fine with me. It makes it seem more real and exciting when something new is unearthed.


That's exactly what I would hope to see - a slow tantalizing process of discovery and "puzzle solving". I'd like to see the clues found in unexpected places. In my view of all this, only a few at DLF (And RAWA if he would have the time and heart for it) would be aware of where it was all going. Their job would be to ensure that we were headed toward a usable language - not a random set of words.

I do agree that new scratchings and carvings should not appear like graffitti on previously discovered content.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:41 pm 
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I have enjoyed that process of discovery as a member of the DLF, working on both the language and more on the Bahroglyphs. I am sure when the time is right, RAWA will help, at least I believe and trust he will.

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