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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:07 pm 
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Interesting... because during MO:UL an avatar that used the Dr. Watson custom avatar said that he was the one who did the things seen in Myst V. Interesting new retcon. (and it /is/ a retcon, if that's the real Cyan facebook page...)

Or of course... it could be that the avatar during MOUL (gametap MO:UL)... was not a real Cyan avatar... at which point, that entire discussion could be called into question... I much prefer the concept of a retcon, personally.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:05 pm 
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I for one have never seen the Myst games as rpgs. We all have lives, busy lives with all kinds of stress. It's nice to escape to a wonderful landscape, explore and stretch your imagination. A place devoid of violence and filled with puzzles to solve and questions to answer. A place where we go as ourselves, no avatar to steer. And even better, this haunting, beautiful soundtrack plays in the background and tickles your soul. That is what Riven was for me.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Thanks for answering our questions Robyn; this is a fun conversation. On Myst V, if Dr. Watson did in fact take the journey, then maybe it is alluding to the fact that others took the journey. I think that's what Cyan was getting at in URU when every player takes the same journey (Yesha's Journey or The Path of The Shell) yet follows a distinctly different path each time. So maybe, just maybe, Dr. Watson took that journey, and Trekluver took that journey, and Rand and Robyn did, and everyone else took the same journey. Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe the Bahro are just playing with our imaginations; how can we really know for sure? :D


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Still doesn't even begin to explain why the spaceship has a pipe organ in it :lol:


Trust me, Atrus was on the forefront of green energy technologies!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:53 pm 
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URU is set apart from Myst through Myst IV by around a hundred years or so, by my reckoning, presumably which would make "the stranger" long since past by our time. just as the stranger supposedly acted as our vehicle in Myst and Riven and presumably the same stranger in Mysts III and IV, Dr. Watson was our vehicle in Myst V in the absence of the stranger.

both characters served the same purpose for the same reasons. i and believe Dr. Watson having been the explorer in Myst V is taken as cannon.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:41 pm 
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Myst V being somewhat based on Dr. Watson's present day (2004-2005) experiences is just a story point for Uru and explains what is happening with the Bahro. When you are just playing the Myst series alone and come to Myst V, it is not stated that 200 years has passed (though the restoration is mentioned), and it is implied that it is still YOU, who has come seeking your old friend Atrus, but you find Yeesha instead. You will notice that the things shown in the game do not match up perfectly with Uru.

I tend to disagree with those who accept nearly everything that is in Myst V as canon in Uru. In my opinion, just because there is an age called Ta'gira in Myst V, it does not mean that it exists out there in Uru (though I suppose it's in the great tree somewhere). In Uru's canon, Ta'gira could be an age "Cyan" created on their own. Perhaps they loosely based it on unseen areas of Eder Gira and added their own stuff. This stuff is kinda crazy and complex, but that's part of the fun of the D'niverse to me. It is hard to introduce a casual player though. (It seems hard enough to find kids today with patience for Myst at all)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:02 pm 
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(Hi, Robyn, nice to "see" you!)

I do have a slightly different recollection of events, regarding treating Myst and Riven as "just games". :)

First, though, for those who may not know, back in the Myst days, Cyan was very small (growing to six people over the course of the project, I was the fifth), and most worked out of their own homes. I started at Cyan in Sept. 1992. Myst was roughly half completed at that time. Rand and I worked at Rand's house in "the back room" - a small addition on the back of his house. We literally sat five feet apart until we all moved into Chris Brandkamp's garage during Riven production a few years later. We had all day for me to throw every question possible at him from linking theory and quantum mechanics to Atrus' backstory. And he had a "lot of 'splaining to do" (Ricky Ricardo voice). I wanted to know everything, and Rand couldn't get very far away.

It was already solidified in Rand's mind. None of his answers were "What if..." or "I don't know, maybe..." kinds of things, as if we were hammering out new things as we went along. So I assumed until now that Robyn and Rand were on the same page with all this from the beginning. Looking back, and knowing how different Rand and Robyn are personality-wise, that assumption was short-sighted. Given this revelation that this was news to Robyn, I recognize that Rand and I were isolated in our own bubble for all of these discussions. Sure, there were weekly meetings where everyone got together in Chris' garage for an hour or two, but those were about the immediate Myst production needs of the moment, not for discussions about quantum physics. :)

At any rate, while the exact details may have been "discovered" bit by bit over years of time, the foundations for treating the backstory of Myst and Riven as more than "just games", (the quantum nature of linking, the basic history of the D'ni, etc,) were all there when I started at Cyan in 1992, not as afterthoughts coming many, many years later, at least as far as Rand and I were concerned.

As evidence, I submit:

1) My first repsonses (via snail mail, we didn't even have email back then) to people asking questions about the Myst backstory always treated the events of Myst as historical. (1993-1994)
2) In the first FAQ on our first website, I explained that the brothers weren't merely trapped in voids without food and water as it appeared in Myst; and that Atrus hadn't killed them by burning their books; he just destroyed the links to their Ages, etc. (1994-1995)
3) The novels describe themselves as having been based on Catherine's journals. (1995-1997)
4) The words "To D'ni" written in D'ni were inconspicuously placed in the environment behind Rand and Robyn during television interviews during Riven production (1995-1997) this eventually led to the "To D'ni" website ARG (though it wasn't called an ARG back then), the final solution of which had the "winner" actually call in and have a brief conversation with a D'ni surface dweller (Guildmaster Yahtair). The winner would later receive a beta copy of Riven. (To D'ni was "won" in March 1997)
5) The Riven Soundtrack booklet had a picture of a page, written in D'ni, discovered "at a recent dig". I don't have the booklet with me as I write this, but if I recall correctly, that was the first time I was referred to as "Dr. Watson". (1997)

Of course, all during this period of Riven development Robyn and Richard VanderWende were locked in Cyan's basement hammering out Riven's design details, so he definitely has a legitimate excuse for not knowing the specifics of what we were doing upstairs. :D

The beauty of it all, IMO, is that there is no single right answer that has to fit for every person.

For those who just care about Myst and Riven as stand-alone, immersive experiences, you can do that. They were designed specifically to provide that first-person experience with as little as technologically possible to distract from it, like few other games have ever attempted, let alone achieved. ("You are you." "Act and react as if you were actually there." "the adventure that will become your world" "You've just stumbled on a most intriguing book." and all that.) In that light, as far as the games themselves are concerned, they are "just games". YOU found the Book, what are YOU going to do now? Lose yourself and enjoy, please! :)
If, however, you want to dig deeper into the story behind those games, the novels are there.
If you want to dig even deeper, To D'ni, PreAfter, and Uru were/are there.
If you want to dig deeper still... study the history of New Mexico, brush up on your quantum mechanics, and grab a shovel. :)

You are free to pick the one you enjoy the most. Or none of the above, for that matter. :) I think it's really cool that Myst/Riven/D'ni can provide that range of experiences for those who want them (or not for those who don't. :D.) Selecting the option that is right for you doesn't have to detract from anyone else who selects a different option. Variety, the spice of life, and so on.

In any event, Robyn, Rand, and I all completely agree that having questions (mysteries) is always more interesting than having "all the answers". May you always have mysteries to ponder.

:)

RAWA

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Last edited by RAWA on Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:31 pm 
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RAWA wrote:
May you always have mysteries to ponder.

:)

RAWA


Thanks, Robyn for all your input, extremely appreciated, and RAWA, for your splendid answer.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:32 pm 
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Thanks RAWA! I wondered if you would chime in. :) Thanks also for dating the FAQ on the Myst site. I found archived copies from 2000, but I knew it could be older. This has been a fun discussion.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:51 pm 
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RAWA wrote:
May you always have mysteries to ponder.

:)

RAWA


I couldn't agree more. If we knew everything we would cease to be human right?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:54 pm 
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Weirdest thread ever. o.O

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:07 am 
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As for the original use of the Falling Man, I think I originally connected it to Atrus, only for the fact that he's the only one that falls like that in Myst. But after Riven, you start to wonder if it's Atrus, you, "The Stranger" or just a theme since the starfield pops up in places every once in a while.

I never really considered it a problem or a canon issue.

Though when I see it, I first think of it as just someone falling in the Fissure. Who it's supposed to be is kind of irrelevant. The logo is the logo; it's the symbol of the Myst series.

With that said, it could be supposed to be Atrus, for in the original Myst, he had regular clothes on when he linked to Myst. In realMyst, he is wearing a coat and you can tell that some of his clothes are a little different than the original sequence.

Myst:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKCawALGeXw

realMyst:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUCPtDUqCGw



My two cents.


Welcome to the boards, Robyn! Glad you could join us and we appreciate your input on different matters of Myst universe and canon!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:08 am 
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The only thing I remember RAWA stating is that there is more to the "real" Myst island than what was shown in the game. I seem to recall that at one point he stated that Myst is actually larger with more places of protection than what was shown. However (again if I remember right), he later clarified (or changed) his stance to say that the "real" island is not necessarily larger than what was shown in the game, but there are still hidden things that we did not see (like bedrooms).


Hi! I want to say again that it's great hearing from everyone! Before I answer any more questions, I should say this... the correct concept and philosophy of Myst (or Riven, or Uru) is probably whatever concept allows you to have the most fun playing it. Myst is yours... the fans. And the most I can do is tell you what we, the designers, originally intended for the Myst experience.

That said, regarding Myst island and additional hidden areas, like bedrooms... if you want to imagine those areas are there, it's fine. We never designed or intended anything like that. We wanted to give you freedom to explore everything on Myst island.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:21 am 
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Of course, all during this period of Riven development Robyn and Richard VanderWende were locked in Cyan's basement hammering out Riven's design details, so he definitely has a legitimate excuse for not knowing the specifics of what we were doing upstairs. :D


Hi Rich!

I have no real idea what you're getting at but I almost feel like I should say I'm sorry? Sorry!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:31 am 
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How much were you involved in the writing of "The Book of Atrus"? You're certainly credited as contributing to it.


A lot and not much at all. Rand, Richard and I sat around and hashed out the story in a broad way, but we weren't really getting anywhere. We had a rough outline... very rough. At one point, Richard Vander Wende and I took a few days away from Riven (we were well into production) and, working on it full time, we hammered out a much more detailed outline.

Then we handed it over to David Wingrove, who wrote it in less than a month. A herculean feat.

I had no time to work on the sequels... Riven production was at it's peak.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:31 am 
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Hi Robyn!

It's great to hear from you and get your side of the story and RAWA too, always a pleasure.

Not sure if you're aware but there's an edit button on your post so if you have more to say you can add it into the same post. You need not have 2 or three in a row :P Sorry, not scolding ya, it's just a pet-peeve of mine.

I just want to thank you for the countless hours of my life Ive spent playing and replaying these masterpieces throughout the years. I cant think of a better world to have been lost in :)

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