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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:20 pm 
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From what we've been told on the Myst movie site, they're avoiding portraying the Stranger. Er... you. Me. Razz Rather, instead of just following the plot of one of the games, they're either using the novels or making up a brand new story. I'm not sure which because we haven't been updated in a while. Sad Dang ol' Hollywood vows of silence... Mad

Getting somewhat back on topic, just wanted to say I hope you make more music, Mr. Miller. Myst, Riven, and Ambo all still have a special place on my mp3 player. Smile


Hi Kaveman!

No... I want to play the stranger! Please!?

Does anyone know anything at all more about this film? I haven't really talked to Rand much about it.

Also... about the music, thanks!!! And I will be composing another soundtrack within the next few months, for the film I'm currently work on! When I start on it, I hope I remember to get the forum some "sneak peaks!" (or listens)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:38 pm 
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From what we've been told on the Myst movie site, they're avoiding portraying the Stranger. Er... you. Me. Razz Rather, instead of just following the plot of one of the games, they're either using the novels or making up a brand new story.


I think it's good they've decided to avoid the stranger, for obvious reasons. Personally, I also think it's good they don't feel held down to any of the Myst stories... that could be a real heavy weight. I have no expectations of the film. I think I heard it's going to be a big budget action thing (but I guess I'm heading out of the topic of the discussion)?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:35 am 
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robynmiller wrote:
No... I want to play the stranger! Please!?


Lol, funny you should mention - we convinced Rand to do a Stan Lee-esque cameo. I'm sure they could pencil you in somewhere! :D :lol:

robynmiller wrote:
I think it's good they've decided to avoid the stranger, for obvious reasons. Personally, I also think it's good they don't feel held down to any of the Myst stories... that could be a real heavy weight. I have no expectations of the film. I think I heard it's going to be a big budget action thing (but I guess I'm heading out of the topic of the discussion)?


I do believe they were held down in a sense with their original Book of Ti'ana script. It was only a few months ago that they "opened up the Myst canon" to explore other story possibilities. As for movie news, you probably know about as much as we know! Last we heard, they're still in talks with writers and studios and such. Any further details have been kept hush-hush due to non-disclosure agreements.

robynmiller wrote:
sneak peaks!


YES, PLEASE! :D

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:45 am 
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robynmiller wrote:
They replaced the original concepts of "you are you" and "the stranger" has become the new truth.

Given the the events of the Myst games, and in particular, Myst V: End of Ages, how would you resolve the abrupt conflict of focus and change of context between those games where the player is the sole heir to the story and that of Uru Live where everyone is an heir and part of a community that sets out to solve a problem or puzzle together? Dr. Watson retrospectively became The Stranger from the events of Myst V for events in Myst Online: Uru Live because "in reality" everyone could not be that one person; could not claim the same credit for doing the same thing - just as only one human can lay claim to being the first to step foot on the Moon.

Totally with you on the Star Wars Force thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:47 am 
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JWPlatt wrote:
robynmiller wrote:
They replaced the original concepts of "you are you" and "the stranger" has become the new truth.

Given the the events of the Myst games, and in particular, Myst V: End of Ages, how would you resolve the abrupt conflict of focus and change of context between those games where the player is the sole heir to the story and that of Uru Live where everyone is an heir and part of a community that sets out to solve a problem or puzzle together?


I'm not Robyn, but: I did Myst and Riven. I also did Uru. Myst 5... mangled the story plan for Uru to try to throw together a resolution after the original Uru Live ended, and was then mangled in turn to try to fix it when Gametap picked it up.

The thing is, it's not the same me, just as it's not the same me who punches trees and builds nether gates (Minecraft) or the same me who survived the resonance cascade and fights the Combine (Half-Life series). But maybe I'm just good at doublethink, who knows.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:21 am 
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Of course you can still be "the one", JWPlatt. MMOs do it all the time.

Look, we all played the games individually -- for me, it was my story. People are all drawn to Uru yes, but you tell yourself they were drawn to Uru for different reasons. I can still maintain the fiction that I am a special friend of Atrus and I saw Yeesha grow up, assuming I played the solo player games, which you don't have to do to play Uru. You can even assume that other people also knew Atrus and Yeesha, just didn't have the relationship you did.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:40 am 
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Kaveman wrote:
robynmiller wrote:
No... I want to play the stranger! Please!?


Lol, funny you should mention - we convinced Rand to do a Stan Lee-esque cameo. I'm sure they could pencil you in somewhere! :D :lol:


YES YES! I'd buy ten tickets to see that! It would be a lovely addition to my made-up cast consisting of Gene Wilder, Jackie Earle Haley, Rupert Everett, and Faran Tahir. (Only Haley and Everett would be a main character (A'gaeris and Anna's father), the others would be side characters)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:24 am 
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The "Original Six" all deserve cameos :P

hey... is there an established name for them yet? i'm officially putting this monicer out there... just say'n :wink:

how bout the "Cyan Six" ? ... no..? well, think about it :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:43 am 
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Keiya wrote:
The thing is, it's not the same me, just as it's not the same me who punches trees and builds nether gates (Minecraft) or the same me who survived the resonance cascade and fights the Combine (Half-Life series). But maybe I'm just good at doublethink, who knows.


I quite like this explanation. :thumbsup:

Here is another way of looking at things... this is a *bit* long, I apologize.

Robyn has said that in Myst and Riven "You are you" was a central concept behind the game. URU is *also* a story in which "You Are You." Even the letters phonetically say that. So in envisioning URU, Cyan was staying true to its roots for the type of experience they wanted to give to players.

BUT... for URU to embrace You Are You, yet work as a multiplayer game, Myst and Riven had to have more context. Not every person playing Uru could be THE person who saved Atrus and Catherine. The stories of Myst and Riven were placed into the distant past and were considered to have been performed by a hero whose identity has been lost to time. As JWPlatt mentioned, Myst V either had to be treated similarly or its story discredited, and Cyan chose the former approach and assigned the role of its protagonist to Dr. Watson.

If you're still with me, here's where things get twisty. You CAN have your cake and eat it too, if you think this way.

Many of us here are already familiar with IC and OOC - whether as "in-character/out-of-character" as traditionally defined, or as "in-cavern/out-of-cavern" according to RAWA's definitions.

OOC, Myst, Riven, and Myst V are "You-Are-You" experiences, exactly as intended. You saved Atrus, you saved Catherine, you freed the Bahro. OOC, there is no stranger, and there is no Dr. Watson!

IC, Myst, Riven, and Myst V are stories of other peoples' exploits. It is only when you assume the role of an explorer who has been drawn to the strange volcano in the southwest desert that you need to also roleplay that you weren't the person who saved Atrus and Catherine, and Dr. Watson freed the Bahro. It is only within the fictional universe of Uru that these seeming retcons exist at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:56 am 
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I'll try to answer Robyn's questions, if I may.

The truth is, all these things are happening, because Myst is a world. It's much bigger than you might have originaly planned or want right now, but it was growing. Maybe growing as we speak. This is something which I believe RAWA saw from the very beginning. But it's not RAWA's "fault"- it just happened. D'ni was no longer "Dunny", it was no longer this small prison in which Atrus is trapped. The books came out, new info about the D'ni. And Uru, of course.

And when Myst became a world, people were looking for logic. The Book of Atrus happened somewhen in the past, so Myst must have happened somewhen after! being a game doesn't mean the events are out of the loop of time, surely!

Games are the same as books, really. Especially a game like Myst. So Myst took it's place in time and history, so the person who saved Atrus and Catherine (as well as the one who ran after Saavedro to J'nanin, and saved Yeesha) COULDN'T be you. Because you didn't live in 1805. So the the player, originaly supposed to be you, became "The Stranger", an historical figure.

And when a world starts to grow this way, "you" come back to the story. Who are you exactly? what is you relation to all those awesome stories? are you taking the role of "The Stranger", experiencing his events sometime during 1805?

Uru answered us. It told us, that you are you. Yourself. The character you play in Uru is you- the same one who played Myst, or read Book of Ti'ana. And so, Uru became the "reality", and as you may know, it is going on realtime. Maybe it's not the perfect reality (after all behind all these talkings it's still a game being produced), but it is considered the "reality of the D'ni world". As opposed to Myst, which (unlike you originaly wanted), is bound to the year of 1805.

Than again, it doesn't take out any of the Mystery. First of all, the things I said above only apply if you decide to go deeper, into the story, into Uru. While playing the games, you might (and maybe should) act as if you found the Myst book, you saved Atrus, you saved Catherine. This is the purpose of a game after all, as both you and I have said before. But the world of Myst grew since 1994, and if the player wishes to open up, he will discover Uru. He will discover that the events of Myst happened "somewhen". He will discover that he himself can go to D'ni! what differs Uru from the Myst games, IMO, is that it is easier to relate to the world there. Your adventure in Uru are not to defeat a dragon and save the princess (or defeat a crazy D'ni guy and save his son's wife, if you will), but to explore. Simply explore. There is the whole "save the bahro" thing which I don't quite like, but most of the game is about exploration. Things any of us can do. This is why it is taken more easily as a reality, at least for me.

Also, who said that not knowing who you are or when the things happen takes the fun out? we know about the Places of Protection in Myst as much as we knew back in 1994. What happened to the tree dwellers in Channlewood? or to the dwellers in Mechanical? What is there beyond the canyon of Tay? what is there to see beyond the locked door in age 233? if we go to the other "Stranger" games- what happened to Saavedro after we released him? is Tamra alive? how does the village of Serenia looks? how exactly is the life stone connected to the dream chamber? if any of the game lack mystery, it does not have much to do with the fact that the events are historical. This is not something you are even supposed to care when playing the games.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:38 pm 
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The concept of The Stranger never had any deeper significance to me. Maybe The Stranger is me. I certainly am a stranger to the people in the Rivenese village when I arrive the first time (and get the porthole shutter slammed in my face :) ) When I'm in any of the Myst games, I am there. And I'm a part of a story. I have no trouble imagining being in this universe, perhaps due to the fact that I really want to be in those thrilling and beautiful places. I remember playing The Journey Man Project, but in these also very great games I never had the same feeling of really being there.
The Miller Bros did well :) (greatest puter games ever made).

When I play Uru or Moul, I am an Explorer, and the Myst Saga (the games 1-5) becomes surprisingly irrelevant to me. Here I look upon the Saga as a side story, as an archetype story of a broken family, who happened to live in the universe of the Dunni. Of course I'm aware of who created Relto as I arrive there, and I think of Atrus when I'm in Kveer, but they seem not to be my reason for being an Explorer, nor for being in the deep city. In Moul or Uru the main thing for me is to explore, alone, or with other explorers, and I don't feel the need of bringing in other details than the ones i can find here. And no Stranger here. Only my fellow explorer who calls himself The stranger :)

In a Myst/Uru movie there will prob be a visualized Stranger. Its hard to imagine the camera being "me" for two hours in first person view in a non-interactive media:)

Ty to Robyn for starting this thread and for a great many other things :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:27 pm 
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robynmiller wrote:
maybe you just began to over-think the logic behind Myst.


I think (and we all know how dangerous that can get...) that the D'niverse took on a life of its own- the seeds of it were there in the original logic and design of Myst, and over the years that seed has gotten a heck of a lot of fertilizer (heh heh) and tending, and now it is a huge tree.

You guys didn't set out to create an entire Tolkien-sized mythos with Myst & D'ni- that's grown organically over the years. I think it is a testament to the sheer creativity of you and Rand and the original team that there was such a solid foundation for that mythos to build on :)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Robyn, I have to say, if the D'niverse never became what it is today some of Myst's magic would be lost on me. I like the Myst series so much BECAUSE of the lore it comes with. It still has a lot of mystery, especially Uru.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:06 pm 
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Robyn,

I have been slow to respond, as I want to be deliberate. I don't think we're really all that far apart on this. So let me clarify what may have not been clear in my previous post.

1) "you are you" in Myst and Riven - I completely agree, and said in my previous post by providing several quotes, that Myst and Riven were specifically designed and are intended to be experienced as if YOU (the player) were the one who found the Book. I'm not disagreeing with you on that point at all.

However, as folks here have attested, once you've played Myst and Riven, if you want to dig deeper into the back-story (read the novels, for example) the games are (by nature of what the novels reveal) going to be seen in a different light. That cannot be helped, which is why I have always recommended people play Myst and Riven first, whenever I'm asked in what order Myst/Riven/the novels/etc. should be experienced.

2) my misrepresenting your initial intent - As I said, I only had those discussions with Rand to go on while forming my understanding of Myst when I started at Cyan. I have freely admitted that I was not aware that your views were different from what I learned from him at that time (late 1992, early 1993). I did not know until now that I had been misrepresenting your intent.

3) Rand's "solidified" mind - When I said things were "solidified" in Rand's mind, I was talking about the key foundations of the backstory when I first asked about them, which I clarified in the next paragraph "...while the exact details may have been 'discovered' [fleshed out] bit by bit over years of time, the foundations...(quantum linking theory, basic D'ni history, etc.) were all there when I started at Cyan in 1992". I was not trying to imply that all the details already there or that Rand wasn't open minded in the creative process while all those specific details were being fleshed out over the next several years (the novels, Riven, etc). I'm sorry if it came across that way.

My point was that I've been part of the development process with Rand many, many times over the last nineteen years: Riven, the novels, DIRT, Uru (and all it's permutations), Myst V, Myst Online (the land of perpetual development), Bug Chucker, and half a dozen others that never made it out of development into production. So I know very well Rand's creative process and the "what ifs..." and the "I don't know, maybes...", the give and take, the back and forth, the two steps forward three steps back (yes, there are days when it feels like you're losing progress), etc. and my conversations with him during the second half of Myst's production were not at all like that. That's specifically what makes them stand out, as I look back at them now.

4) over-thinking and insensitivity - I'm very sorry that you feel that I was over-thinking the logic behind Myst and changing things without sensitivity to your original intent. I don't deny that I was over-thinking it - like I said, I hammered Rand with every question I could think of for about a year of Myst production.

But my first answers to fans via snail-mail, that first FAQ, etc. were all based on those talks with Rand, so as far as I knew at the time, I was following your original intent. Further, when a brand new question came in from the fans, I almost always ran any new answers by Rand to be sure I was on the same page with him. I did not just release "new" information unilaterally on a whim. That continues to this day, in fact, if I have doubts of Rand's position on an issue. I even emailed my first response in _this_ thread to Rand before I posted it so that he had a chance to read it first, since I wanted to be sure I wasn't misrepresenting the content of the discussions we had during Myst production. ...I mean, it was nineteen years ago. There was the possibility at this point that I just dreamed all those discussions. :)

To sum up: I'm sorry for my part in bumming you out about all this. If I could go back and change it so that everybody wins, I would. I'm not exactly sure how, but I'd try somehow. Further evidence I never get access to a time machine.

:)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:38 pm 
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I'll add some more to The Stranger discussion. I think the other reason people confused the falling man with Atrus was from the box art design. In the original box art it appeared that a man was falling to the island bellow. I myself (before I played the game) thought that it was suppose to be me falling to the island bellow. That, added with the box description added to the whole Stranger argument.

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