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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:38 am 
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Chogon wrote:
BTW, donations is a hard thing for Cyan. In the past, we have always just made a product and other people sold it. Begging for donations is not something we are use to or good at and personally it is just not my style - and to me, saying "we'll give you X if you donate Y dollars" just feels like ransom (sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone).
So, getting ideas from the fans about donations would be very helpful. And I do think the one-size-fits-all donation model we currently have could be greatly improved.


It doesn't feel like that, really. Bounties work awesomely well for small projects like Haiku and AROS who need some missing feature and money to get that feature. Take a look here and here. I've seen real progress in the Haiku community being done with bounties like WiFi networking (which it didn't even have about one year ago IIRC) and the WebKit port needed for a better browser than Firefox 2.0.

So, we could have bounties for things like Minkata sparklie, completing some parts of Ages, new features, bringing whatever cool new thing to the engine, etc. Either splitting the money between developers and Cyan, or just getting the money directly to Cyan if you guys know how to fix them in exchange for your time. Or we could actually set up a Google Chrome-like situation where Cyan would only have to take the current code in the repository, build it / make their modifications and ship it on the server.

Regarding ads, I quite like it the way Team Fotress 2 and Uru do it. Just small clothes / items from specific brands. Not too much "in your face," but still there for promoting things if people want to pick them up.

Now, logins. Looks like changes need to happen to the game if you want better logins. Better logins lead to more donations, or at least to better chances of getting revenue from somewhere. Getting revenue from somewhere makes the CAVCON Meter happy again and might even land us even more changes in the future. :) Today Uru's just like D'ni. Beautiful, yes. Interesting, yes. Alive? Not really. And logins *will* drop off at some point if it stays the same.
People have mentioned making changes to journals and things like that that wouldn't take a huge effort, but would bring in people to the game. Now I know you have a story in mind that you want to continue exactly as you planned it, but small things here and there would be awesome and might bring in more interest.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:33 pm 
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Why can't there be a monthly goal. You could have a meter and every month people can donate to reach that goal. Not really ransom but it gives us a visual of how much money there getting and how much they need.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:25 am 
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PaladinOfKaos wrote:
Marten wrote:
As I recall, Uru, MYST, and Riven-themed goods were (maybe still are?) available from MystWear.

I didn't even know that existed. There doesn't seem to be a link anywhere on the MOUL or Cyan websites.

Yeah.

It is listed on rel.to, the community index/portal site (now run by Leonardo) - but, to your point, because of the potential for MystWear to generate revenue for Cyan, it really should receive some promotion directly here from Cyan. (Of course, I think rel.to ought to be promoted too... the whole point of it was to centralize the burden of maintaining a community site index so we didn't have partial, out-of-date lists all over the various sites.)

PaladinOfKaos wrote:
It also looks like most of the designs are screenshots of ages, which is not really the sort of thing I had in mind... there are plenty of logos and patterns in Uru and the other myst games that would look good on a t-shirt. I've never found big colorful pictures on my shirts to be appealing, personally.

True. There are a few non-screenshot images, but not many. The coffee mugs are pretty nice. On some of the articles you can order, you can submit your own designs or images... that is supposed to be OK for the cutting boards, at least - I'm not sure if it applies globally to all of the products.

Anyway, if the service is still active, I feel it ought to be promoted here, and kudos for you pointing out it should be on Cyan's main website too; I hadn't thought of that.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:42 am 
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MystWear is still active, just has not had a lot of business. Go buy something. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:22 am 
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Kickstarter for Uru tidbits :)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:08 am 
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Donahoo wrote:
MystWear is still active, just has not had a lot of business. Go buy something. :lol:


you go buy something! :P


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:32 pm 
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So, we could have bounties for things like Minkata sparklie
Yes please! I've been asking for this since we first stated making donations.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:05 pm 
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I believe that one of the problems for donations lagging behind costs is that the only way fans can donate is on-line through PayPal , a company with a rather shady reputation :!: . ( visit http://www.paypalsucks.com ) It is the main reason i have not donated so far . I would be more than happy to pay a small monthly fee by other routes , like a direct bank-transfer to whatever account Cyan has setup/opened for this purpose :idea: , but never ever through Paypal .


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Here's a question for Cyan staff, roughly how much does it cost, as of now, to operate the MOULa servers each month? An exact estimate could give us a better idea how much we need to be donating every month.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Trekluver wrote:
Here's a question for Cyan staff, roughly how much does it cost, as of now, to operate the MOULa servers each month? An exact estimate could give us a better idea how much we need to be donating every month.

Eh! I would feel that this is moving in to sensitive land, you know, Y for X and all that,

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:10 pm 
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tommyap wrote:
I believe that one of the problems for donations lagging behind costs is that the only way fans can donate is on-line through PayPal , a company with a rather shady reputation :!: . ( visit http://www.paypalsucks.com ) It is the main reason i have not donated so far . I would be more than happy to pay a small monthly fee by other routes , like a direct bank-transfer to whatever account Cyan has setup/opened for this purpose :idea: , but never ever through Paypal .


I don't like PayPal either. However, I saw no risk in donating to Cyan. Here's why:

PayPal's policies refer mainly to their control over PayPal accounts. For example, disputing a charge to your credit card could be a violation of the agreement you make in using PayPal's services, but as I understand it, the only thing PayPal can do to you is limit or terminate your PayPal account privileges. That could be very troublesome if you have a PayPal account with lots of money in it - but it is an empty threat if you don't have an account at all.

PayPal has earned their poor reputation because they are not subject to banking laws and can refuse to dispense money in your PayPal account that is rightfully yours. But again, this is only an issue if you have an account with them and either store or receive money in it.

Fortunately, you do not need to have a PayPal account to donate to Cyan. Cyan bears the risk in taking donations through PayPal.

I agree that it would be nice for Cyan to have other donating options. Reddit recently set up a submission area for people to recommend PayPal alternatives. Thus far, it seems heavily weighted toward merchant management rather than donation management, but maybe that will change in time: http://www.reddit.com/r/paypalalternatives/

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:05 pm 
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Trekluver wrote:
Here's a question for Cyan staff, roughly how much does it cost, as of now, to operate the MOULa servers each month? An exact estimate could give us a better idea how much we need to be donating every month.
I asked that question directly to one of the Cyan guys over eighteen months ago but he couldn't give me an answer. I think the problem is that it isn't really some single, fixed number and is dependant on the level of usage. Remember back when the initial demand forced a few server moves, and later an adjustment to allow server instances to be turned on/off as needed? Well Amazon price their EC2 server instances per hour of usage, so if we're using, say (arbitrary guesses), 3 instances during peak times, 2 during intermediate usage and only 1 during quiet spells, then you end up with an equation similar to:

Cost = ((3 x X hours) + (2 x Y hours) + Z hours) x K $/hr

where X, Y and Z will vary depending on holidays during the month, any events people are holding, etc., - anything that might make people more or less likely to go into the cavern - and K depends on the type of server instance Cyan have chosen.

When I originally asked the question there probably wasn't any historical record to look to, but I guess now an average of the last six months costs would be an indication. However you'd also need to know how much has been donated, and I suspect Cyan probably feel uncomfortable with talking about that. I think the CAVCON was supposed to be an abstract way of representing the information without getting into specific dollars and cents numbers, unfortunately that didn't work out as intended. Had it worked properly then the only extra thing anyone needed to know was if they themselves had donated recently.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
I think the CAVCON was supposed to be an abstract way of representing the information without getting into specific dollars and cents numbers, unfortunately that didn't work out as intended. Had it worked properly then the only extra thing anyone needed to know was if they themselves had donated recently.


Bingo.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:57 pm 
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RAWA wrote:
Mac_Fife wrote:
I think the CAVCON was supposed to be an abstract way of representing the information without getting into specific dollars and cents numbers, unfortunately that didn't work out as intended. Had it worked properly then the only extra thing anyone needed to know was if they themselves had donated recently.


Bingo.

RAWA


Fair enough I suppose. The only reason I asked is because /cringe/ I have never donated to MOULa. /doublecringe/ :oops: :twisted: I have always intended to but have never done so. I've always been more a a cash person anyways.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:03 pm 
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I'm one of those that donated when MOULa was first released, then I admit I was in a state of complacency (not regularly giving) since CAVCON was still at 4, so somebody else was keeping it healthy. This adjustment to where it stands financially will hopefully jar us out of our complacency to begin to help out again. Thanks y'all for not waiting until it was too late. Let's see if we can get CAVCON back to 4 this week!

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