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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Tomala’s idea to boycott other games is not going to work. In 2008 when a large number of us went to Second Life and joined the hundreds of D’ni Refugees already there The community had a get together at Thend’s Explorers’ Community. One of the question was: Would you leave SL if the Cavern reopened?

Most planned to visit but live in SL. The Cavern has reopened and most of us in SL live in SL and visit the Cavern. The behavior is very much like immigrants that move and only return home for special occasions or to visit friends or family.

People will come to the Cavern when there is something interesting to do.

Ahlisendar brings up the idea of seasonality… That is an idea that keeps coming up in SL too. The idea is people spend less time in SL during the summer because it is nice outside and there is more to do. Usage stats from the game show no seasonal variation. Most of the games I’ve been interested in show no seasonal variation. I would be very surprised if there is a seasonal variation in Uru.

rha3l is more on the mark with what most game research has shown. Empty MMOG’s stay empty and busy MMOG’s get busier. It takes players to hold players is the logic of some. I think that idea is more a measure of an affect than it is a cause. Something fun to do holds players and attracts more. What was it that kept the first people there?

Deledrius points out Uru’s age old problem of requiring new content to hold player interest. That part of the game has not changed. Until either Uru changes or a steady and consistent flow of new content is being added, player retention will be a problem.

Personally I think even a flow of new content, as in new ages and puzzles, will be insufficient to hold players. Solving single puzzles gets repetitive. That gets old and people move on to other things. Building mysteries takes time but they do a better job of holding players.

Gorgeous content is like a photo album. We look at it once and do our oows and ahhs then seldom look it. Gorgeous content takes time to build and has little affect on player retention. Most new games look at how to create social interaction so there is involvement beyond just exploring or solving puzzles. The puzzles and places to explorer are like place holders that hold people long enough to allow a crowd to form.

The people sticking around Uru long term are mostly age builders and programmers. New people suffer the content consumption and departure cycle. Minecraft, SL, OpenSim, and now Cloud Party cater to those that like to build and create. Those ‘games’ pull away more of the people Uru needs than the shards ever will.

The debate on whether Uru has to change to survive has still to be resolved. As long as some are willing to fund it (money and/or creative effort), it can survive as is.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Can you explain to me Nalates what is SOOOOO GREAT about SL?

I entered it quite a few times. First thing I saw and felt is the ambient publicity. I felt like walking in a high class touristic resort but being broken. Indeed I was. First "person" encountered, he or she told me: "Well girl! Do you have money?"

Money?!?!? What for???

Money to buy stuffs, clothes, entertainment, houses, land, etc. :shock: :?

Is that the "definition" of a game?

I ended up "naked" in a public area not knowing what in the world I've done! I've been stolen by the "game". I bought a new avatar and a lot of clothes and a house!

Some months later, I wasn't even able to warp to the house, the "game" told me I didn't own any!!!

To convince me about SL being SOOOO great, you must come with unarguing arguments because I doubt this mercantile product (not a "game") is worth spending 1 hour of my REAL life :evil: :evil:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:22 pm 
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Annabelle, SL is a lot of different things. At its most fundamental it is a sandbox of a very pure sort. It becomes whatever people choose to make it become. There are places it is a game. There are places where it is simply an environment, or casinos, and nightclubs, or just quiet little houses where people interact with their friends.

But the single most important driving force are the in-game communities themselves.

I'm not a huge fan of SL (especially the overt commercialism you mention), but there are many things I like about it and the open-ended nature of it is definitely one of them. It does mean it can be non-obvious to find what appeals to you. This is probably a big reason why SL will never be more than a (very large) niche system.

If you commit to spending some time with it, you'll probably find something you like, or at least know why you didn't.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:07 am 
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Annabelle, I am sorry your SL experience was not good. First of all SL is not a 'game' and you do not need money to have fun, explore and be with community and friends. If you want those things, they are certainly there but definitely not necessary to have fun and enjoy yourself with friends. You don't even have to be in places you don't care for, just yell and the D'ni Refugee group will take you under their wing.

I went into SL alone shortly after the announcement that MOUL was being shut down but I knew there were folk from our community there from some conversations with Thend and some others. Yes, orientation island was simply awful with some pretty awful people lurking about being mean to new folk. (no clue if it ever got any better....) But one of the first things I did was do a search for Myst or Uru and came up with some groups and looked for names that I knew and I IMed the first ones I saw online and they came and got me immediately and took me to Siren Myst. They were in the midst of preparing for an influx of visitors they knew would be coming and were so wonderful and helpful. With their help I was able to figure out what I was doing and make myself presentable (on freebies too) within a short period of time. Anyone who comes in these days, just search for The D'ni Refugee group - it is open enrollment to join and put out a call and someone should answer up to help you.

Deledrius hits it right on the head
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But the single most important driving force are the in-game communities themselves.


The community has been a driving force within SL and still held true to its roots. I don't see it as simply a large niche system, though. It is an extended, vibrant community/family who has an interest in MOULa but also in what it can do within SL. The community members promote MOULa, we are proud to be defined as being Uruites and uphold the same traditions such as Karaoke and Donahoo's expletive Party. We like explaining where we came from and most recognize who we are when we do. We build, we create, we participate just as we participated in MOUL we find ways of interacting where ever we are. It seems to be our nature to explore new realms and find new things to do or see. SL definitely has its pluses and minuses but many of us did find homes, businesses, friends etc. Many in SL have been brought into the MOUL fold simply by exposure to the community there. Many of us have the MOULa info/links in our profiles.

I was at the meeting Nalates mentioned. My exposure to SL made me realize I could have both worlds or even more if I wanted as long as I was around folk in the community - that was key for me. I decided then my main residence would be SL partly since enough time had passed that I had established a residence, had projects I was working on and future projects coming up but I would always visit MOULa. I do think the key is having friends to meet up with and something to do - not just going somewhere and waiting for friends to appear. I know I am in SL a lot more when volunteering for events such as the recent birthday celebration or if I am working on a project building, animating and working on new sets for the troupe I am in.

Tomala is right, you do need evolution and content to survive. We have the ability to make content in SL that immediately satisfies our needs or we can share with others. I just wish MOULa had more content. Progress has been very slow but I am always hopeful there will always be reasons to go back to the cavern.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:19 am 
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Nalates wrote:
...
The people sticking around Uru long term are mostly age builders and programmers...


Very good observation. Is it possible that this could be part of the problem ?

I had been around since Until Uru and began my active contribution on the Until Uru forum at Ubi forums followed by becomming a Crier at one time. I am an old man with very minimum software knowledge (not a geek by a long shot and english is a second language for me (self taught). Bought my first ever computer at age of 65.

With time some Uru builders and programmers could not understand why I was not able to follow in their foot steps and slowly the bullying from well known members started (including from some moderators). On the Ubi forums I always got along very well with everybody. Me remembers many nice people like Alahmnat & Reverend Vader (who have also disappeared). I have many friends who had similar experiences and are staying away from anything, Myst games and Uru-MOULa. On Ubi forums same problem. Very few of us are left to try helping very rare new players

After such experiences it is very easy to loose the respect you had for some people and I'd say almost impossible to gain it back. (These days, it seems that bullying and irrespect is very much accepted hight fashion)

I rather stay away by myself. It is safer for my sanity - peace of mind and soul.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:09 am 
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Nalates wrote:
Tomala’s idea to boycott other games is not going to work. In 2008 when a large number of us went to Second Life and joined the hundreds of D’ni Refugees already there The community had a get together at Thend’s Explorers’ Community. One of the question was: Would you leave SL if the Cavern reopened?


Oh I think it can. I even generated a list of singleplayer and multiplayer games that could take people away from MOUL. :)

If we can get people to stop playing WoW, Guild Wars, Tomb Raider, Quake, Final Fantasy, The Journeyman Project, Portal 2, Borderlands, Cooking Mama, Mario Kart, Team Fortress 2, Peggle, Diablo 3, Second Life, I wanna be the guy, Magic The Gathering, Dota 2, Skyrim, Runescape, Pac Man, every game on facebook, Max Payne and a few others then we should be in really good shape! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:27 am 
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That's a good list.

Let's start manageable though. If we could at least get the Cooking Mama people back, the pellet scores would pick up quite a bit.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:33 am 
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There's another one I forgot to add to the list. Solitare. That game can be real addicting. If we can get microsoft to drop support of it or get rid of it completely, maybe we'll get more funds into CAVCON?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:27 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
...
The people sticking around Uru long term are mostly age builders and programmers...

And really stubborn folk who think Uru is worth having, content or not ;)
Artic_Wagon wrote:
Very good observation. Is it possible that this could be part of the problem ?

I dunno if 'problem' is the right word, but I think this is an accurate observation. People who aren't the tech sort don't have anything to do but wait. And some have been on the rollercoaster enough times, that people have hopped off the ride to catch a breather.

There's been lulls before, and I don't think any other game or shard or social experience is guilty of pulling people away from MOULa- people go to the places where their time and energy is most effectively used, and their experiences positive. I'm active in SL- but the D'ni Refugees aren't my primary social group (Although they get mad props for being the people who got me past the AWFUL new user experience! It wasn't just you Annabelle.), what I am doing there is
completely different than what I'm doing when I'm in Uru, or Guild Wars, or anything else. Neither one is better or worse than any of the others, they're just where I'm putting my online time at that moment.

WHEN(because it will, one way or t'other- be it on MOULa or shards)new stuff rolls into Uru, people will be there. And remember, there are still TONS of people who have never been in any iteration of Uru, who are still going to be entering the cavern with wonder and curiosity and exploration on their mind- no matter how jaded you get, watching someone see it for the first time is still fantastic. The more we can facilitate that, (and y'll know me, I'm a big fan of the immersive "Welcome to D'ni, lemme show you around, tell you about the place." approach) the more people's experiences are enhanced, even if there aren't a ton of people in the cavern.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Tomala wrote:
If we can get people to stop playing... Mario Kart... and a few others then we should be in really good shape :D


"Ima' throw my blue shell at you if you do 'dat!" :D 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Nooooooooooooooooo, not Skyrim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Thx Deledrius, Dudemom & Eleri,

I should give it a 2nd try one day. I'm "member" if it's what we call it in SL of D'ni Refugees & URU Cavern Skydivers groups.

I went to some events held there not because I knew there were some just because I happened to go there.

I will start back from scratch though. I'm not sure of my older account and don't remember password.

Is there: "A SL guide to dummy ones"? I find very useful the sliders here in URU even thought we all look like sisters since we are all built on the same format.

Do we need a place to crash too? What is happening if we logoff? Are we disappearing or just standing there like a cloud?

I know that's a bit off-topic ;)...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:56 am 
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I can't speak for anyone else, but until there's anything resembling new content or story or whatever in the city, I don't really have much incentive to log in. fiery abyss, the last time I started the game was after the Minkata sparklie fix, and that was just long enough to find it. I know Cyan's current situation, and I know it's a minor miracle to have the game up and running at all, but that doesn't change the fact that what drew me to the Myst franchise as a whole isn't really present in Uru right now. And with multiple other interests pulling me every which way, I haven't really felt the need to look into the fan-made Ages that already exist.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:05 am 
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Annabelle, try the quickstart guilde

Also folk are very kind at helping you get used to things.

If you come in anytime use this SLurl to get to the Eder Gira Telehub

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/E ... a/21/232/4

Otherwise just give a yell over the group chat and they will grab you and bring you into Eder Gira.

When you are ready to come into SL let someone know. Probably a good time to come in is when something is going on so you find the most folk - Karaoke (every Saturday around 3pm SLT or Pacific Time), Donahoo's expletive Party (it runs every other week next one should be July 20) or CCCP Party every Thursday at 3pm. Usually there is a notice sent out in the group so if you check the D'ni Refugee Group profile and click on the notices tab you can find all the notices that have been sent out recently with info and landmarks to get you where the action is. Looking at the group you can see who is online and click on them and IM them for assistance.

Normally if you do not have a home point, you tp in to your last location. You can set it on the log in screen to Home if you have one to set or Last Location. So if you log out of Eder Gira, that is where you will come back to when you next log on. You don't really need a place to crash unless you really want one. Once you learn how to change clothing properly it is moot. When you log off you disappear.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:17 am 
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@Dudemom_2000: Thx Sweetheart :D

It's real nice of you to help me :wink: I will learn how to change clothings privately in this Quickstart Guilde then maybe I'll come and showoff :lol: on the dancefloor with the avatar that most fit myself and my style.

I remember having danced at some venues there but my avatar was one of the "by default one"... let me say I wasn't satisfied.

I'll redo the adventure from scratch.

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