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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:44 am 
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In another thread it was brought up that perhaps the various fan shards were siphoning explorers from the main MOUL shard. I am thinking of a way to meld them all together (sort of) so that one may travel freely from one shard to another without having to load up another instance of URU into their computer. Perhaps there could be an 'age' created like Direbo, where you can access all the shards from a central area? Walk into one bubble, and you are in MOUL, walk into another bubble to be with your friends in shard X. I imagine centralizing shard access so that it is quick and convienent would increase the playability of the game tremendously. I guess it would require a pretty hoopy piece of pregramming, but if it could be done, access and player throughput would increase.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:46 am 
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Or perhaps at startup have the option of picking which server you would like to go to on one client.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:06 am 
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I was thinking of this before Gehn was launched, and even had some working mockups in the launcher, but the trouble is the datasets. Not all shards are using the same datasets and gameplay, yet keeping things in sync properly is imperative for the proper functioning of Uru, and since we still do not have a license to distribute Cyan's assets it can be messy enough as it is to keep separate installations. Currently the differences are minor for most shards, but that can change at any time, and it would force the user to re-download (if possible) every time they switch shards.

It's not impossible, but it would probably lead to even more issues than we're already having with users unable to keep their installs straight.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:21 am 
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Ah, shame that there's no way to disable certain assets. :(

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:51 pm 
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There could be a "common folder" that comes from Cyan's MO:ULa, then other folders (Gehn, Minkata, TOC...) that would be added to the side for every dataset that isn't the same. At startup, UruExplorer.exe and UruLauncher.exe would select the appropriate dataset and log in there. This would involve quite a bit of work, obviously, but currently, I think that's the only way it could be made to work.

An Age linking to other shards would just be too complicated and too time-consuming to create; even an in-game login screen is a far-off dream. :(

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:49 pm 
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datasets and gameplay is not trouble the only datasets would be fan ages, Python, and SDL files. Python and SDL change from shard to shard is not a big thing does not take log for it to down load. fan ages are not that a big thing as evean if a shard does not have that age and the client has the ages files they do not get deleted and the shard does not care if the client has them.

the trouble is the client exe's build id, keys , and changes to the code. the GOW build takes care of the keys with the server.ini but not the codes changes.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:04 pm 
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The patcher would need only be pointed to the server, then download the appropriate client. There are no problems with that either.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:04 pm 
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All of this talk has got me thinking. If the option to login to separate shards is to ever be implemented, then the login GUI would have to undergo the proposed redesign. And with the separate talk of starting the development of said redesign, then I have taken it upon myself to create a wiki page at the Guild of Writers where all of this talk can be kept track of.

Also, I propose getting a group together to actually begin the development of said redesign. With the various strings of bug fixes that have been implemented lately, it's high time to finally move on to bigger and better things. 8) Eh, anyone got a copy of 3ds Max lying around? :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:25 am 
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Trekluver wrote:
Eh, anyone got a copy of 3ds Max lying around?


A Copy?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:45 am 
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Charura wrote:
Trekluver wrote:
Eh, anyone got a copy of 3ds Max lying around?


A Copy?

Some copies are legal.

Don't let the Content Industry fool you. Copy isn't a four-letter word. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:33 am 
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Lyrositor wrote:
The patcher would need only be pointed to the server, then download the appropriate client. There are no problems with that either.


easier said then done. lets take the GOW version of the code i uses a server.ini to hold the address for the server and the keys. too add and option to pick a shard and download or copy the right server.ini i do not think it would be that hard to do and as long as the shard you log on too have a launcher the can can let you pick the shard every thing will work out.

but what if you want to log om to a shard that does not use a server.ini like MOUL the keys and server address are hard coded into the exe yes you can make a server.ini the you get the client update you need but the new launcher would no longer have the option to pick a shard.

the only way for it to work would be for cyan to have a launcher that can let you pick a shard and i am not sure if cyan would do that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:43 am 
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But you wouldn't need to overwrite the launcher. You could have one universal launcher that presents the right settings, the right build ID etc for the right shard. That way, only the data and the appropriate UruExplorer.exe are downloaded.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:33 am 
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Lyrositor wrote:
But you wouldn't need to overwrite the launcher. You could have one universal launcher that presents the right settings, the right build ID etc for the right shard. That way, only the data and the appropriate UruExplorer.exe are downloaded.

Yeah, this is not the hard part. I already had a launcher that allows you to add new server.ini (or provide a simple URL to retrieve one for a shard of your choice) and adds them to your list of servers. MOULa doesn't need to provide one, it's a simple matter to make one... that's how you can play on MOULa with alternative clients.

Managing shards' info isn't hard. It's keeping the data straight, and preventing a constant re-download of large data files which at least Cyan would probably want to avoid for reasons of cost alone, let alone most other shards as well. This doesn't take into account the slow divergence in the way the clients work, either.

I love the idea, and it would be great if we could do it, but it requires some things to be the same across shards that just aren't, and probably will be less so over time. The good thing is that if it was the case that this would be easy, it would basically mean there's no reason to even have shards, as they'd all be identical. So the positive thing here is that this is hard because we've got something better in the long run, even if it's not quite as convenient.

I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong, but I'd have to see a stable working prototype. :D

Trekluver wrote:
All of this talk has got me thinking. If the option to login to separate shards is to ever be implemented, then the login GUI would have to undergo the proposed redesign. And with the separate talk of starting the development of said redesign, then I have taken it upon myself to create a wiki page at the Guild of Writers where all of this talk can be kept track of.

Also, I propose getting a group together to actually begin the development of said redesign. With the various strings of bug fixes that have been implemented lately, it's high time to finally move on to bigger and better things. 8) Eh, anyone got a copy of 3ds Max lying around? :D

This, on the other hand, is definitely doable.

I started work on the code-side of this several months ago, as you can see:

https://github.com/Deledrius/Plasma/tree/NewStartUp

(The Python changes still need to be pushed to my moul-scripts, it seems, as they were very in-testing and not finished)

That was mostly code-removal so far; the actual auth code would still need to be moved into the proper libraries elsewhere.

In theory, the code changes are relatively trivial. The biggest hurdle so far is that no one has made a replacement PRP set. I attempted making a stand-in for purposes of getting the ball rolling, but since the GUI elements were unimplemented in PyPRP2 I was using the 3DS Max plugin, which I found would crash when building GUI components. Unfortunately others have had difficulty duplicating that bug, so that side-project has sat untouched. Also, building UI for Uru is a massive ugly pain.

Mock-ups are great. I personally really like Tweek's ideas (though reality may require a few minor adjustments). However, mock-ups are a step up from "having an idea"; they can't be put in game. In my experience, I've found mock-ups to be invaluable once work has begun on a project, but they're only inspiration without that work. What we really need is someone with the talent and drive to create a working set of PRPs to move the login screen, character selection, etc. in-game so that we can remove all but the patcher from the Windows-specific code and really clean things up and give this game a much-needed facelift.

I was more than willing to do the code changes, but when it became obvious they weren't going to be usable for the time being, I lost motivation on it. I would be interested in picking them up again if there was work being done on a real nice StartUp replacement that was at the quality level to be accepted into use on Gehn.

Anyone willing and able to build a full replacement for the StartUp Age?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Charura wrote:
Trekluver wrote:
Eh, anyone got a copy of 3ds Max lying around?


A Copy?


No no, that was an open call to those who had it to come on board and help develop it. :D

Deledrius wrote:
This, on the other hand, is definitely doable.

I started work on the code-side of this several months ago, as you can see:

https://github.com/Deledrius/Plasma/tree/NewStartUp

(The Python changes still need to be pushed to my moul-scripts, it seems, as they were very in-testing and not finished)

That was mostly code-removal so far; the actual auth code would still need to be moved into the proper libraries elsewhere.

In theory, the code changes are relatively trivial. The biggest hurdle so far is that no one has made a replacement PRP set. I attempted making a stand-in for purposes of getting the ball rolling, but since the GUI elements were unimplemented in PyPRP2 I was using the 3DS Max plugin, which I found would crash when building GUI components. Unfortunately others have had difficulty duplicating that bug, so that side-project has sat untouched. Also, building UI for Uru is a massive ugly pain.

Mock-ups are great. I personally really like Tweek's ideas (though reality may require a few minor adjustments). However, mock-ups are a step up from "having an idea"; they can't be put in game. In my experience, I've found mock-ups to be invaluable once work has begun on a project, but they're only inspiration without that work. What we really need is someone with the talent and drive to create a working set of PRPs to move the login screen, character selection, etc. in-game so that we can remove all but the patcher from the Windows-specific code and really clean things up and give this game a much-needed facelift.

I was more than willing to do the code changes, but when it became obvious they weren't going to be usable for the time being, I lost motivation on it. I would be interested in picking them up again if there was work being done on a real nice StartUp replacement that was at the quality level to be accepted into use on Gehn.

Anyone willing and able to build a full replacement for the StartUp Age?


Very nice to see a fork of it was started. I'll add this to the wiki page in just a moment. :)

If you're looking for someone to help, you should talk to the TOC MOULa guys. They were able to successfully redesign the startup for their shard. The only thing they did not alter was the closet screen, which was something that Tweek had proposed doing. Since they have some experience doing such things, they're probably your best bet to help start building a team.

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Last edited by Trekluver on Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:10 am 
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Deledrius wrote:
Some copies are legal.

Don't let the Content Industry fool you. Copy isn't a four-letter word.


Does anyone have a copy of the CD that came with the 'discreet fundamentals and beyond courseware 3ds max 7' book?

I have the software (3ds max 7) and the book, but not the cd associated with the book :cry:

I'd like a shot at understanding but I need a nudge.

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