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 Post subject: Getting time to let go
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:09 pm 
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On February of 2010 I created my avatar and once again entered into the game world I considered the best game ever created. I brought in family members and friends to show them the beauty of the game and to play through the great puzzles that also made the game so great. I got together with other players and became friends with many great people from all over the world. Jaruku and I met soon after and I joined his Bevin. We added many more people to the Bevin as time went on, by this time we had some experience with griefers and we set up traps to turn the tables on them if they came into our Bevin. As time passed there were more and more griefers who came into the Bevin and either by language or actions disrupted a fun time. Eventually we found it necessary to isolate ourselves from the community and put our Bevin on privet. This is not something that we wanted to do, but had to do in order to enjoy ourselves in game. At first we would take trips into the city once and a while to see what was going on, and to meet new people. To often this turned into a disaster and we had to leave because of griefers. Eventually we stopped going into the city altogether. Cyan new from the start, when they first put this game online that there needed to be moderators. Why they think moderators are not needed now is beyond me.

On Wednesday 7/9/2014 we talked it over and decided to see if we as a Bevin could help to revitalize URU by going back into the city standing in a circle and greeting people as they came into the city and welcome them into our conversation. Thursday and Friday went without a hitch we had groups of about 20 people each night and it was fun. On Saterday with a group of about 15 things changed, one player came into the circle who was there for another reason and started sexually harassing a young girl in the group. And was spelling out words that are not allowed in game by adding a space somewhere in the middle of the word. So all of us left the game in disgust and without recourse as usual.

For some reason there are people in this game and at Cyan who are happy with the status quo and refuse to even try to find or test an answer to the problem. Why would that be? Either they are the griefers themselves or they live the same kind of “low life” lifestyles that the griefers do. And I guess some are just afraid of change.

IdenO tried to get people to understand back in 2009 on a post he wrote on 6/4 of that year. The silliness of the replies can be summed up by one post that argued “WTF” didn’t mean anything, it could be “Whiskey Tango Foxtrot”therefor there was nothing wrong with it, but if you have more then a 3rd grade education you would know that “Whiskey Tango Foxtrot are you doing” would not make up a sentence used by a person of any intelligence. Therefor by the context of the sentence most people in this world would be able to tell you exactly what the three letter abbreviation means. Again this doesn’t take a genius to figure out. So why would someone want you and I to think it can mean “Whiskey Tango Foxtrot”? Unless they want it preserved so they can use it. I know there will be many such silly statements made about this post as well.

I know many have talked about this in the past and no one will listen to me anymore then they did them. I will probably remove URU from my computer soon though I will keep in touch with the friends I have made on URU (we talk on TeamSpeak every night, and have been for over 3 years while safe in our Bevin). I no longer tell family members and friends to come to this game and for sure no one with children should let them come in this game.

In my opinion one of two things will happen, things will change or URU will die. :(

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:21 pm 
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Cyan can't do anything if they don't know the specifics of what needs to be done.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:56 pm 
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Location: Germantown, Tennessee
I sort of agree with Rocketdog.
With all the new and old avatars logging in over the months,
I don't think it is bad as Rocketdog implies. But, one is
too many. I have noticed when I log into the game, which is
seldom now with my schedule, most people are talking in private
messages. This may be alright for some, but it does leave new players
feeling like they are the only ones there.
Multiple avatars with one player can also cause some problems.
Cyan can only do so much with "policing" the cavern.
Cyan has a great feature that works better than anything.
That feature is the "ignore" feature. One click and they are history.
This problem has been in URU for years.
What can Cyan do? Hire someone to stand in the cavern all day and night?
I am sure that is not going to happen. It is just the way the world is now.
You walk out your door and cursing and obscenity is everywhere. You can
only try to avoid it.
I know exactly what you are saying Rocketdog. I have seen it and heard it
many times, and if it bothers me, they are put on ignore.
URU is a wonderful place, but it does have that problem you discussed and
a couple more.
I hope that URU will be around for a long time, but we just have to understand
that it does have its problems that may or may not be able to be fixed.
Until then, ignore, ignore, ignore. That is all we have for now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:33 am 
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Location: Hanging around with mermaids. And still looking for the elusive Funky Bahro.
We have had a sort-of moderator during "daytime" hours in Ae'gura: ResEng M. Dogherra. But, judging from rocketdog's post, apparently most of the activity in Uru isn't until later, and unfortunately, my schedule won't allow me to come around during those hours. Is there a ResEng available during later hours to keep tabs on players?

If not, perhaps Cyan should consider assigning one.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:04 am 
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There is nothing to help in the evenings. I just finished the game for the night, no problems today, about 10 people no griefers thank goodness.

I asked Christine to send a ticket to Cyan with a KI shot and explanation of what happened yesterday, so I hope they will take care of the griefer in the morning.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:29 am 
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I miss the atmosphere I remember from GT, so much has changed over the years, being exposed to such friendly people must have been the best therapy I ever had, better then any doctor, drug or support program I can remember. My own progress amazed me. The online game You built Randi and the people it attracted did more for me on a psychological level then then any head shrink could possibly dream of. Ever wonder why one of my interest is psychology.


I can never replace that experience. I never new such people existed, it was all new to me and now its all gone, and now you know. Laugh if you wish, poke fun if you feel you need to. and then walk for a day in the shoes of another.

Good Luck Dog, and stop by from time to time just to lurk if for no other reason
nothing good happens over night I just hope it happens in my life time

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:48 am 
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I won't laugh at you Karkadann as it had a similar impact on me too. So much so since 2007 I am now a different and better person. Ok I was changing before that but this was the final piece that has carried me on to expand my mind and do things I never dreamt of doing before. And if I had to single out one person that started it all it was Dot (GoM). I owe Dot a lot for talking the time to help me and to encourage me. All due to a game and what a game it WAS.

This quote hit a nerve the other day and for me it did change my life in such a profound way.

Robyn Miller http://www.rivenworld.com/WIRED%20Jon%2 ... Report.pdf
" I know it's possible that art can change people's lives. That's what I want to do."


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:58 am 
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Nicoleleigh

I somehow missed your post so let me reply to it now.

The problem is not that there is nothing Cyan can do, the problem is that Cyan has not tried to do anything. There have been many many suggestions over the last 4-1/2 years of things that could be tried but not one has been. Is there a perfect solution? Probably not. Are there some things that could work well if not perfect? I think so, but if they are not tried then I do know we will never know if they will work or not.

I wont go into the things that have been suggested here there are way to many to address but there are some good ones.

As you mentioned you can put them on ignore but how dose that help us with a griefer running through the other players for two hours straight as you try to have a conversation? I guess what I don't understand is the attitude of, well we just have to put up with it. I know I don't, and I will not accept it much longer. If I would have known this was the mindset of the people in this game I would never have come back to the game 4 ½ years ago. Maybe it is time I go, like so may of the long time players before me who are sick of nothing being done to try and fix it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:36 am 
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Location: Germantown, Tennessee
I can understand your frustration and it affects me the same way.
Makes you want to scream.
Some of these people behind the avatars are just plain mean and have
a lack of something to do. I can never figure out if they are children or
a demented adult. I don't think it is a young person because their
attention span isn't that long. These people are just people who enjoy
aggravating people in general. Like a school bully we all hated. They
mess with the players and then just sit back and are laughing. The
griefers use to be much worse than they are now, thank goodness, but
like I said one or two can be a problem. I wish, at times, I had the power
to just zap them out of the game and keep them out. But, we can't do
that, I don't have the power. Most of these griefers don't last long, but
it can get really aggravating. It is terrible that we have to "lock" ourselves
in our Bevins/Hoods and stay there. We all love to be included in the conversations
and intermingling with people for friendship.
I remember (short story) when we had a griefer and the group I was standing with,
sent private messages to each other and we went to Nexus and showed up across
the city at the Library, etc. The griefer left. But, again, why should we have to turn
to games like that?

Hopefully, Cyan can help with this in some way.

Hang in there. Hopefully, the griefers will be few.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:45 am 
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Location: ... Gone Fishing...
rocketdog wrote:
(1.) On February of 2010 I created my avatar and once again entered into the game world I considered the best game ever created. / ... /

(2.) ...we had some experience with griefers and we set up traps to turn the tables on them if they came into our Bevin. As time passed there were more and more griefers who came into the Bevin and either by language or actions disrupted a fun time. Eventually we found it necessary to isolate ourselves from the community and put our Bevin on privet. / ... /
Eventually we stopped going into the city altogether. Cyan (k)new from the start, when they first put this game online that there needed to be moderators. Why they think moderators are not needed now is beyond me.

(3.) On Saterday with a group of about 15 things changed, one player came into the circle who was there for another reason and started sexually harassing a young girl in the group. And was spelling out words that are not allowed in game by adding a space somewhere in the middle of the word. So all of us left the game in disgust and without recourse as usual. / ... /

(4.) For some reason there are people in this game and at Cyan who are happy with the status quo and refuse to even try to find or test an answer to the problem. Why would that be? Either they are the griefers themselves or they live the same kind of “low life” lifestyles that the griefers do. And I guess some are just afraid of change. /... /

(5.) IdenO tried to get people to understand back in 2009 on a post he wrote on 6/4 of that year. The silliness of the replies can be summed up by one post that argued “WTF” didn’t mean anything /... /

(6.) In my opinion one of two things will happen, things will change or URU will die. :(

I always get the feeling it's futile to try and argument with reason in these kind of topics but I'll try anyways. Let's say I do it for this community's sake... and for my own sake as well. I wish that this community should prosper and be well, even if and when I decide to leave it... But I agree on (1.)...

I've been arranging some events and stuff through the years, and would like to think I have a hunch of how things work. And I've been in touch with Cyan reg Griefers and wrote some things on these Forums reg them. Sometimes in affection and anger.

There are very few still around, but a few enthusiastic people make a great difference. Creating events for all to enjoy etc. The 24th April I.H.P. Open House had some 50 to 70 people at tops, joining in during the +8 hour long event. One well known Griefer made it up to the scene. Mostly harmless. Btw. the Cyan'ists were present. Anybody from your Hood there, Rocket?

There are one or two Griefers that are very persistent... We who are in the City (and I've been there a bit too much at times, but not at all these last weeks though) usually make people aware if there is some issue, or some seem to be Trolling or Griefing. I always advice people to be cautious but I can't see that (2.) is the solution... Gated Communities? And as been present in the City for some 4 years now, I don't really have same picture as you, Rocket... And there are events held on weekly basis in MOULa, in different Hoods, AGM's... I can't recall that serious issues with Griefers have been mentioned of late...

(3.) These kinds of things should not need to happen, but they do. People say (or write) things or do things that are offensive for some, or even insulting. I'm not sure there is a cure for that. How do you avoid that IRL?

(4.) That kind of argument is not really helping, is it? We are all "low-lifes"? Thank you ever so much! I bet the Cyan'tists appreciate that praise too!. Did you know Rocket, that ResEng M.Dogherra is often present in the City, on most office hours? And he chats with us, also about the Griefer issues. And he has Banned a few on the spot!

(5.) Why bring up a topic written 2009? A lot of water has run under the bridges since then. The arguments always end up in the same manner... "You are wrong"... "No, you are wrong"... "No, you are wrong, you idiot.." etc

(6.) I still try to keep a positive mindset reg. MOULa these days and I think we all should! Many things I've tried to achieve in the past has been in vain, wasted effort. But we still have a community that is very much alive... IF we Wish to Keep it Alive! Although I too have my doubts some time. As much as I'd like to change a few things in MOULa, I realize I can't.

But pointing at any direction and blaming others for the flaws and problems within the community are never going to solve anything. That just spreads even more uneasiness and might in the end be the one reason for people leaving MOULa.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:56 pm 
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Location: Back to the surface!
Big issue, short answer:

/startlog (each and everytime you enter the game)

In 99,99% of the cases the chat will only stay on your PC until it get rid by the system chat.0.txt, chat.1.txt, chat.2.txt.

In 0,01% of the cases, you'll have enough material to send an email to [email protected].


Unfortunately, the access to game is free and there are no control ever on the number of accounts one can create (I know that fact... :wink: ). In the 0,01% of the cases, Cyan replied and told me they had deleted this & that account of the griefer.

The thing is that Cyan cannot go beyond that... if the said griefer, who has one main activity in life: to grief, creates a brand new account, then things get out of control for everyone.

You cannot even control the IP addresses. If someone wants to hide, they can change it easily no need to use an app, just by unplugging their cord from their modem and wait a few minutes, their ISP will give them a brand new IP address and they can come back anonymously.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:12 pm 
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with regards to the sexual harassment of a young girl - that needs to stop, that /really/ needs to stop. >.<

With regards to Iden0? Wtf? Why bring that back up. >.< I'd nearly forgotten all that garbage that happened back then. That period has no real relevance to now - if we still carry around and bring back up the fights of old - we are doomed to repeat them over and over. The names will be different - but the fights and their effects will be the same. Stop worrying about the past - and worry about the future, because the future is worth fighting for. =/


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:26 pm 
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In another topic, I talked about an access to the moula shard, only for the players which have paid a fee rather than a free access ...

Example:
- 1$/month
- 3$/3 months
- etc ...

At login screen, a script checks if the account paid the fee ...
- if yes: access
- else: no access

Of course, it's not the better idea (I think that Annabelle will agree with me when I say it's not the better idea ... ;) ), but this idea can be use differently:

- You have to register your account (all your accounts) with your mystonline.com pseudo in a special usergroup (only Cyan can see the datas of this usergroup).
- When you pay the fee, the fee status is updated in the usergroup, for all your accounts.
- At login screen, the script checks the fee status for the account ...

I really think it can help to solve the problem about griefers, and it will also help the CAVCON Meter!

Oops, not a "fee", but a "needed donation" ...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:36 pm 
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I must say I knew when I wrote this post that this would happen. All the same things that were said before in other posts and no one seems to understand what I was saying. This is not about the griefers, nor is it about 2009, its about the attitude, don't try anything to correct the problem. Here we are 2014 not one thing has been tried to correct the problem. Again I will say it MANY, MANY, MANY THINGS HAVE BEEN SUGGESTED NOT ONE HAS BEEN TRYED. None of you know if they would work or not, nor do I.

These replies are all the same attitude that I was trying to get people to understand, I don’t know how to make it any clearer then this. I worked most of my life as a mechanical engineer, do any of you think we sent a person to the moon without testing different platforms until we found one that worked. Did we as a world go from the model T to the Tesla without trying and failing many many times? I said in my original post “status quo” this is what you people are saying. All I am trying to ask is that we all understand that to advance something you need to try different approaches, if you don’t it will remain stagnant. That is “status quo” are you people all OK with that? It would seem like it to me.

Not one person here has said “yes, there are some good ideas that have been suggested on these forums in the past I wonder why none of them have been tried,” other then a privet message I received from a french player.

Understand this is not about Cyan, or a slam aimed at Cyan, this is not about griefers, this is about a problem that goes much deeper than that. This is about a mindset that has become part of the URU live community that is, it seams, unbreakable. If URU live would be around 10 years from now another person will probably follow in my footsteps and maybe even refer back to IdenO's and my post, and people will tell him “there is nothing we can do, we never tried anything but there is nothing we can do.”

M.a.x.2.0. Twisted my words which doesn't surprise me so I will correct him even though he and I know the damage is already done to make me look like I am trying to cause trouble. This is a tactic used in these forums to create descent against the person who wrote the post. So In fact M.a.x.2.0. I said “Either they are the griefers themselves or they live the same kind of “low life” lifestyles that the griefers do. And I guess some are just afraid of change.” It is up to you to decide which one you are, it looks like you have made your choice. M.a.x.2.0. naglected to add the last sentence because that didn't fit his agenda. I wont go on to reply to M.a.x.2.0.'s statements because they have no bearing on this post they are just more of the same.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:29 pm 
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What can We as individuals do to resolve this issue, because all the new content in the world is a waste of time and effort if the issue that emptied the caverns can not be resolved.

after all if you get kicked out you loose nothing cuz its free and you can always get back it
No accountability

The rumor's of back doors people used to get in for free back at GT would suggest its not secure enough to set up as a pay to play which may be why MORE never happen.

Realistically speaking Does Uru Live have a chance
Can we save Uru live
Do you really think new content will help bring it back to life

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