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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:23 pm 
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I had implemented a version of the invisible mutual ignore feature in the KI python a few years ago. That was back when I was hesitant to add new engine features destined for MOULa and before the code supported running more than one client per machine. There were enough bugs in the code and cases that needed to be tested, coupled with the fact that I had to juggle two PCs to test it that I ceased working on it (and quickly forgot about it in favor of things that bugged me).

Last night, I began developing an engine-side variant of the CyanChat mutual ignore. I'm juggling a few different code and R/L projects at the moment, but hopefully it will materialize soon. It should be infinitely easier to work on now that the main development fork supports running many clients side-by-side.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:32 pm 
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I log into these forums for the first time in nearly two years, and what do I find? :D Go Hoikas!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:58 pm 
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Adam, I am sure you are doing this anyway, I just want to say that unless both avatars are invisible to each other, there's no point in developing this.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:14 pm 
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Indeed. You will have two options: mutual invisibility (and inaudibility) or the current model (you don't hear the ignored player).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:21 pm 
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Chogon wrote:
As far as the free/paid bit in the account database - that is still there in MOULa. Of course, everyone is automatically marked as “paid” ;-) but that could be changed. As I remember, the “free” bit is mostly checked at the client, like only getting one avatar, it might limit what Ages you can go to, limits on clothing, etc. But I suppose we could add server code to do something like not allowing them access to public Ages by linking them to a private instances...

...maybe something more like a ranking system could be used to determine “paid” status. Maybe based on how long ago the account was created, number of logins, inverse of the number of ignores you have received or whatever.
If you mean the Explorer/Visitor set up under GameTap, they were routed to the Guild of Greeters' hood and could visit any neighborhood, but none of the ages. I don't recall if they had access to the city or not, but I presume they did. (So, I guess you'd make it the reverse and give them access to all private ages and no public areas.) The best part was their limited wardrobe choices made them easy to spot, so we'd tell them a bit about the parts they couldn't see in hopes they'd sign up for a paid account.

How difficult would this be to implement?

As for ranking, keep it simple: just make every current account an Explorer and every new account a Visitor. Add something to the Play page to inform them that all new accounts are Visitor status for X period of time and that they must register to the forum to request Explorer status. Then, the griefers who get booted from Explorer status will only be able to get Visitor status until they've gone through the waiting period. For long-time fans who want a second (or more) account, they could simply request it as well.

I like this idea. I really, really like this idea. It would be a nice reward for long-time, loyal fans. Maybe some who left because of the griefers would return.
Chogon wrote:
except MOUL has a problem of "where is everybody" for newbies. :oops:
Just make it clear on the PLAY page that all new accounts have Visitor status which limits their access to only private ages. And, if it's possible, have them routed to one special neighborhood where the Greeters can easily find them. But, please don't send them to the GoG without asking the guild members; maybe make a new hood called "Visitors" or "Welcome Area."

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:06 pm 
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I almost completely forgot about this.
Great to see some blue posts here. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:32 am 
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Nalates wrote:
@rocketdog: you seem to have some presupposition that attitude on the fan side is the problem and changing fans attitude will solve or improve things. I think Chloe Rhodes, JWPlatt, Mac_Fife, and numerous others have demonstrated will-do-attitudes for years and continue to do so. Advancements in MOULa come from the efforts of such people. So, to me there are enough people with what you might consider ‘proper’ attitudes to show that is not the obstacle to solving griefer problems.


Yes I do believe that. I not only believe it I know it to be true. I don't care what the problem is negative thinking will give you negative results. When I said there is a attitude problem in the forums I assumed no one would think I was talking about everyone who posts here. But yes there is an attitude problem on the forum and if you don't think so go back and pick just about any post and read it, you will find negative comments make up about 1/2 of everything posted in a great number of the posts. If you can't see that then you and I will need to agree to disagree.

You are even looking at what I said in a negative way, as if mentioning that we should listen to each persons idea and see what is good in it rather then just rejecting it. And yes that is what is taking place on this forum. Many people that I have talked to have stopped posting here because of it, which caused me to write this post. All I can say to you is, I hope you think about what I have said before you taboo someone else's ideas.

P.S. if you still don't think I am correct read what Anabelle posted second one down. Case and point.

Gahlen, I was going to try to contact you and ask what ever became of your work on invisibility can you please let us know, that could help others who are working on it or others in the future.

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Last edited by rocketdog on Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:58 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:02 am 
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How do you feel about AdamJohnso's forward progress?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:12 am 
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It's my time to let it go...because enough is enough...

Rocketdog wrote:
I know there will be many such silly statements made about this post as well.
(...)
I know many have talked about this in the past and no one will listen to me anymore then they did them. I will probably remove URU from my computer soon though I will keep in touch with the friends I have made on URU (we talk on TeamSpeak every night, and have been for over 3 years while safe in our Bevin)

That’s what I call a "positive attitude"…

The reality check...
KathAveara wrote:
Cyan can't do anything if they don't know the specifics of what needs to be done.

KathAveara is so right!

One solution brought by Nicoleleigh:
Nicoleleigh wrote:
That feature is the "ignore" feature. One click and they are history.
(...)
As you mentioned you can put them on ignore but how dose that help us with a griefer running through the other players for two hours straight as you try to have a conversation?


Max2.0 wrote:
That kind of argument is not really helping, is it? We are all "low-lifes"? Thank you ever so much! I bet the Cyan'tists appreciate that praise too!. Did you know Rocket, that ResEng M.Dogherra is often present in the City, on most office hours? And he chats with us, also about the Griefer issues. And he has Banned a few on the spot!

M.A.X.2.0 is right, your "positive attitude" statement is really not gonna help…

One solution brought by Annabelle:
Me wrote:
Big issue, short answer:
/startlog (each and everytime you enter the game)
(...)
The thing is that Cyan cannot go beyond that...

I'm giving 2 fatalities but I'm right: log everything & Cyan has no mean
I'm not telling there's nothing that can be done

M.A.X.2.0. commented on that but I preferred the way this lady answered you better…
Kaeebonrai wrote:
With regards to Iden0? Wtf? Why bring that back up. >.<


Rocketdog wrote:
I must say I knew when I wrote this post that this would happen. All the same things that were said before in other posts and no one seems to understand what I was saying. This is not about the griefers, nor is it about 2009, its about the attitude, don't try anything to correct the problem. Here we are 2014 not one thing has been tried to correct the problem. Again I will say it MANY, MANY, MANY THINGS HAVE BEEN SUGGESTED NOT ONE HAS BEEN TRYED. None of you know if they would work or not, nor do I.

These replies are all the same attitude that I was trying to get people to understand, I don’t know how to make it any clearer then this

Hmm first time you dare use your "positive attitude" to enlight us with your thoughts…
But… may I ask: "What is the goal of your topic?" First thing, turn off you capitals, we are not in a playground… second thing, "many things have been suggested" what are you talking about? We surely be glad to know what you are thinking about because for now...we are all left puzzled...

Rocketdog wrote:
M.a.x.2.0. Twisted my words which doesn't surprise me so I will correct him even though he and I know the damage is already done to make me look like I am trying to cause trouble. This is a tactic used in these forums to create descent against the person who wrote the post.

M.a.x.2.0 "positive attitude": 1
Rocketdog "positive attitude": 0

Rocketdog wrote:
TCB The Scar has posted a suggestion that she thinks would work.

Small correction here: He thought of a suggestion.
So Rocketdog, you are looking at suggestions, great then!
I’ve posted one earlier…if you missed it…

Mac_fife gets that suggestion right on top of the pile saying it’s the Numero Uno solution.
Mac_fife wrote:
Annabelle is right about getting chatlogs. That and KI numbers, then send it all to Cyan. They will deal with griefers if they're given the evidence. Without it they can do nothing (or very little).


Nicoleleigh comes with the same answer…
Nicoleleigh wrote:
The best suggestion, to me, is what Annabelle suggested.
Make a habit to turn that chat log on and start recording.
I truly believe that Cyan cares what happens in the city, but they can't be
there every minute of the day.

Cheese... I must be right, a lot of people are going in my way...just saying, but why caring about what I'm writing...isn't it rocketdog?

Rocketdog wrote:
Your post is exactly what I was talking about when I started this post. That is not to say that you are wrong there is a good chance that Cyan will not help no mater what we come up with. The question is have we tried to put together a system that will work with as little time and effort required from Cyan as possible?

I'm still in awe with your everlasting "positive attitude"!!!

Rocketdog wrote:
I don't want to go into specifics here that is not the intention of this post, it's about attitude. But I will give an example, I'm not saying this is the answer I'm saying this is an example or could be part of the answer, What if the cost of joining the game per avatar covered fully Cyan's cost of being kicked from the game for instance. You know Cyan already kicks people from the game so there is no increase in workload for Cyan. But there is a financial drain on the griefer. And as we all know money talks. Any money that remains can be added to the cost of the server. I know Cyan didn't want people to pay anything to play the game so it would be available to all. But the way it is it is not available to all, can we get Cyan to understand that, that is part of the question.

At last! The first real defined suggestion brought by Rocketdog.

ChloeRhodes wrote:
rocketdog, a fundamental flaw with your plan of forcing griefers to pay if they engage in bad behavior, is that there is no guarantee Cyan can even implement a system like this, legally.


Rocketdog wrote:
ChloeRhodes
(...)
You have done exactly what I am trying to get through to the community, you have debunked an idea without knowing the answer. Status quo.

She didn't debunk anything here, she is kindly saying to you that maybe it won't be feasible. She doesn't know the answer (although she has the most logical answer) but my question here...are you in the secret of the Gods Rocketdog?

ChloeRhodes wrote:
I have done no such thing. I have criticized the notion of a payment system against griefers because it is entirely possible such a solution is impossible for Cyan to implement without having to also distribute whatever money is garnered from it to GT as well. Thus decreasing the amount that would go to Cyan to fund such a system.

You take criticism of a possible to answer to griefing as acceptance that "nothing can be done" when such is not the case. That is the mistake you have made here.

Chloe is right…

Rocketdog wrote:
I have started a list of Ideas

Wait…Stop right here… A list?!?

Rocketdog wrote:
…that can be done to stop the griefers as JWPratt asked me to, Invisibility was the first thing on the list.
(...)
If you look back through the forum you will see that I was, I think, the first person to come up with this idea years ago.

Rocketdog’s list of Ideas:
1) Invisibility
2) …
3) ?
4) Hmm
5) Yours to Discover (…just like in Ontario LOL)

Rocketdog wrote:
If you search the forum I think you will find the information showing the problems and the work that was put into it at that time.

Oh ok then...
The list is more a list of subjects developed throughout the last few years on this forum and we must go on each topic to read them all to understand the whole figure! Good Heaven!

Rocketdog wrote:
The question I have for you is wouldn't it have been a much better idea to try and find something good in the idea rather then taboo it? If we all look at the problem and only talk about how things wont work rather then how an idea could work where will that get us.

Thank you to remind us to all keep a "positive attitude". Chloe was only pointing you that Cyan might have legal issues with collecting money. She didn’t taboo anything…

Rocketdog wrote:
I think this post is getting off subject and we are starting to get into, what is the solution.

Getting off subject ?!?
Sorry to ask at this point… “What was the subject of this whole discussion?” No one knows it at this point but you…

Rocketdog wrote:
If we are going to have a discussion on what can be done or ideas on how to get griefers out of the game then I think we should start a new topic. But I for one will not get sucked into a status quo discussion about how nothing can be done.

Re-read this paragraph out loud a few times and try to see what is wrong there dear…
Oh ok I’m gonna help you a little… a discussion about a problem calls for…ideas…ideas or if you prefer paths…paths of solutions to solve… solve the problem of that said discussion. Usually, that’s how it is.

Mac_Fife reiterates what I’ve wrote few posts before…
Mac_Fife wrote:
Reporting the griefer with evidence should ensure that they are removed from everyone's sight (at least on that account).


Here he comes, Chogon to the rescue…What are the solutions Cyan has in mind…
Chogon wrote:
Still the best thing to do is get those griefer reports into Cyan. Tor’i (aka Vicki) has no tolerance for that kind of behavior!

In my words, I wrote that

Chogon wrote:
As far as charging a fee to access MOULa - there are a number of logistic and legal problems that would inhibit that, so effectively that is not an option.

Chloe strongly advised you on that particular aspect…but of course she had a "negative attitude" right from the start so you couldn’t accept that.

Chogon wrote:
I’m just throwing out ideas here.

Chogon is a master…
He doesn’t use the forbidden word: "solution" but the praised word: "ideas".
I still wonder ideas are what for…

Chogon brings something interesting and Adam takes the ball on the rebound…
AdamJohnson wrote:
Indeed. You will have two options: mutual invisibility (and inaudibility) or the current model (you don't hear the ignored player).


Rocketdog wrote:
Yes I do believe that. I not only believe it I know it to be true. I don't care what the problem is negative thinking will give you negative results. When I said there is a attitude problem in the forums I assumed no one would think I was talking about everyone who posts here. But yes there is an attitude problem on the forum and if you don't think so go back and pick just about any post and read it, you will find negative comments make up about 1/2 of everything posted in a great number of the posts.

Have you only read back your posts to write such a "positive attitude" comment on "negative attitude" past comments?

JW Platt has a good question here:
JWPlatt wrote:
How do you feel about AdamJohnso's forward progress?


Here are my comments:

Stop that negative rubbishness right now!

Every ideas NOT going your way is bad or not worth talking about, every ideas going your way but with arguments against your thoughts are made by people with "negative attitude".

You can’t control your topic if the subject is not clear right from the start…
What do you want?
I’m still puzzled (and a lot of people must be in the same situation) as to what is your subject of discussion here...
You have a list of ideas unknown to all of us, you ranted some prehistoric discussions held in 2009, you try to intimidate everyone not thinking like yourself, you don’t want solution to the problem (you textually wrote that…), you don’t want us to talk about the problem neither, you want ideas but ideas on what?!? ideas for which goal?!?

I repeat…What do you want?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:50 am 
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JWPlatt

I'm not sure if you are asking me that question or not but I think its absolutely great! I was going to post more about it as soon as I have time. I just got back from fishing all day, had lots of fish to clean and was going to make them up tonight but I'm so tired it will have to wait till morning.

I also love the idea of a waiting time before you can go into the public areas, this has potential. Have you thought about how the newbie will request help from the other players if he can't get into the public areas. I was thinking some kind of a requesting help button, that would show up in the public areas. I haven't really thought it through but I think if we put our heads together this also could be a great solution or a great first line of defense. Like i said before it could be that a combination of ideas is the answer.

Now I must get some sleep.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:17 am 
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I just saw Annabelle's post.... Thank you Annabelle!!! you just proved my point. Annabelle "case and point" If anyone doubts what I was saying when I started this post they should understand now. This is the attitude that is so prevalent on this forum. Administrator,s please do not remove what Annabelle posted here.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:35 am 
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rocketdog wrote:
I just saw Annabelle's post.... Thank you Annabelle!!! you just proved my point. Annabelle "case and point" If anyone doubts what I was saying when I started this post they should understand now. This is the attitude that is so prevalent on this forum. Administrator,s please do not remove what Annabelle posted here.


rocket, annnabelle's post, while blunt and to the point like she usually is with heated topics, is not wrong.

There's a flaw in your opinion that the board is flooded with "negative attitude" and that flaw is that you've assumed "negative attitude" means that anything that picks apart a "solution" or a "idea" or a "theory" is a bad thing. Its not. You cannot have a discussion without weighting both the pros and cons of what you're discussing. It cannot be done. If you ignore the cons and just focus on the pros then you will blind yourself to the reality that what you're discussing is not feasible and won't work.

In your suggestion for the payment system against griefers, I told you that it's highly likely that Cyan can't implement such a system for legal reasons. You then, took that as a "negative attitude" because I was addressing such a thing without evidence. Except that there has been circumstantial evidence for years that Cyan cannot institute a payment system for legal reasons. I knew that, and most in the community have probably intuited that as well. Which is why I said something because I didn't want the discussion regarding this particular idea to go to far down a path before it got blocked by legal reasons.

That is what the crust of this whole thing is. In order to institute a new feature of any kind into the game, a process must be done. The process follows a basic structure -

1. The feature is proposed for discussion - (payment plan idea)
2. The proposed feature is discussed weighing pros and cons (this is the part you have the issue with, you want only the pros, not the cons)
3. After discussion the proposed feature is either changed based on the discussion, implemented fully without changes based on the discussion, or thrown away because of the discussion.

You cannot get to 3 without going through 2 first, and you can't get through 2 without using both pros and cons. Because otherwise, like I suggested before for the payment system plan, once you got through 3 and did all the work necessary to figure out how it should be implemented and how it'll work and propose it to Cyan, Cyan comes back and says "nope sorry, won't work because of legal reasons". The end result is that you've just wasted days of work for nothing. Isn't it better to know before putting that time and effort in if it'll actually work by following a full discussion of the feature using both pros and cons?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:13 am 
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rocketdog wrote:
JWPlatt

I'm not sure if you are asking me that question or not but I think its absolutely great! I was going to post more about it as soon as I have time.

Yes, it was to you. I'm looking forward to your thoughts about it. And also your compiled list of suggestions. There could be other things in it besides invisibility that could help in combination or in the meantime.

I liked everything Tai'lahr wrote, including the wait time. It reminds me of effective anti-spam measures.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:52 am 
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Annabelle wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
It's my time to let it go...because enough is enough...

Rocketdog wrote:
I know there will be many such silly statements made about this post as well.
(...)
I know many have talked about this in the past and no one will listen to me anymore then they did them. I will probably remove URU from my computer soon though I will keep in touch with the friends I have made on URU (we talk on TeamSpeak every night, and have been for over 3 years while safe in our Bevin)

That’s what I call a "positive attitude"…

The reality check...
KathAveara wrote:
Cyan can't do anything if they don't know the specifics of what needs to be done.

KathAveara is so right!

One solution brought by Nicoleleigh:
Nicoleleigh wrote:
That feature is the "ignore" feature. One click and they are history.
(...)
As you mentioned you can put them on ignore but how dose that help us with a griefer running through the other players for two hours straight as you try to have a conversation?


Max2.0 wrote:
That kind of argument is not really helping, is it? We are all "low-lifes"? Thank you ever so much! I bet the Cyan'tists appreciate that praise too!. Did you know Rocket, that ResEng M.Dogherra is often present in the City, on most office hours? And he chats with us, also about the Griefer issues. And he has Banned a few on the spot!

M.A.X.2.0 is right, your "positive attitude" statement is really not gonna help…

One solution brought by Annabelle:
Me wrote:
Big issue, short answer:
/startlog (each and everytime you enter the game)
(...)
The thing is that Cyan cannot go beyond that...

I'm giving 2 fatalities but I'm right: log everything & Cyan has no mean
I'm not telling there's nothing that can be done

M.A.X.2.0. commented on that but I preferred the way this lady answered you better…
Kaeebonrai wrote:
With regards to Iden0? Wtf? Why bring that back up. >.<


Rocketdog wrote:
I must say I knew when I wrote this post that this would happen. All the same things that were said before in other posts and no one seems to understand what I was saying. This is not about the griefers, nor is it about 2009, its about the attitude, don't try anything to correct the problem. Here we are 2014 not one thing has been tried to correct the problem. Again I will say it MANY, MANY, MANY THINGS HAVE BEEN SUGGESTED NOT ONE HAS BEEN TRYED. None of you know if they would work or not, nor do I.

These replies are all the same attitude that I was trying to get people to understand, I don’t know how to make it any clearer then this

Hmm first time you dare use your "positive attitude" to enlight us with your thoughts…
But… may I ask: "What is the goal of your topic?" First thing, turn off you capitals, we are not in a playground… second thing, "many things have been suggested" what are you talking about? We surely be glad to know what you are thinking about because for now...we are all left puzzled...

Rocketdog wrote:
M.a.x.2.0. Twisted my words which doesn't surprise me so I will correct him even though he and I know the damage is already done to make me look like I am trying to cause trouble. This is a tactic used in these forums to create descent against the person who wrote the post.

M.a.x.2.0 "positive attitude": 1
Rocketdog "positive attitude": 0

Rocketdog wrote:
TCB The Scar has posted a suggestion that she thinks would work.

Small correction here: He thought of a suggestion.
So Rocketdog, you are looking at suggestions, great then!
I’ve posted one earlier…if you missed it…

Mac_fife gets that suggestion right on top of the pile saying it’s the Numero Uno solution.
Mac_fife wrote:
Annabelle is right about getting chatlogs. That and KI numbers, then send it all to Cyan. They will deal with griefers if they're given the evidence. Without it they can do nothing (or very little).


Nicoleleigh comes with the same answer…
Nicoleleigh wrote:
The best suggestion, to me, is what Annabelle suggested.
Make a habit to turn that chat log on and start recording.
I truly believe that Cyan cares what happens in the city, but they can't be
there every minute of the day.

Cheese... I must be right, a lot of people are going in my way...just saying, but why caring about what I'm writing...isn't it rocketdog?

Rocketdog wrote:
Your post is exactly what I was talking about when I started this post. That is not to say that you are wrong there is a good chance that Cyan will not help no mater what we come up with. The question is have we tried to put together a system that will work with as little time and effort required from Cyan as possible?

I'm still in awe with your everlasting "positive attitude"!!!

Rocketdog wrote:
I don't want to go into specifics here that is not the intention of this post, it's about attitude. But I will give an example, I'm not saying this is the answer I'm saying this is an example or could be part of the answer, What if the cost of joining the game per avatar covered fully Cyan's cost of being kicked from the game for instance. You know Cyan already kicks people from the game so there is no increase in workload for Cyan. But there is a financial drain on the griefer. And as we all know money talks. Any money that remains can be added to the cost of the server. I know Cyan didn't want people to pay anything to play the game so it would be available to all. But the way it is it is not available to all, can we get Cyan to understand that, that is part of the question.

At last! The first real defined suggestion brought by Rocketdog.

ChloeRhodes wrote:
rocketdog, a fundamental flaw with your plan of forcing griefers to pay if they engage in bad behavior, is that there is no guarantee Cyan can even implement a system like this, legally.


Rocketdog wrote:
ChloeRhodes
(...)
You have done exactly what I am trying to get through to the community, you have debunked an idea without knowing the answer. Status quo.

She didn't debunk anything here, she is kindly saying to you that maybe it won't be feasible. She doesn't know the answer (although she has the most logical answer) but my question here...are you in the secret of the Gods Rocketdog?

ChloeRhodes wrote:
I have done no such thing. I have criticized the notion of a payment system against griefers because it is entirely possible such a solution is impossible for Cyan to implement without having to also distribute whatever money is garnered from it to GT as well. Thus decreasing the amount that would go to Cyan to fund such a system.

You take criticism of a possible to answer to griefing as acceptance that "nothing can be done" when such is not the case. That is the mistake you have made here.

Chloe is right…

Rocketdog wrote:
I have started a list of Ideas

Wait…Stop right here… A list?!?

Rocketdog wrote:
…that can be done to stop the griefers as JWPratt asked me to, Invisibility was the first thing on the list.
(...)
If you look back through the forum you will see that I was, I think, the first person to come up with this idea years ago.

Rocketdog’s list of Ideas:
1) Invisibility
2) …
3) ?
4) Hmm
5) Yours to Discover (…just like in Ontario LOL)

Rocketdog wrote:
If you search the forum I think you will find the information showing the problems and the work that was put into it at that time.

Oh ok then...
The list is more a list of subjects developed throughout the last few years on this forum and we must go on each topic to read them all to understand the whole figure! Good Heaven!

Rocketdog wrote:
The question I have for you is wouldn't it have been a much better idea to try and find something good in the idea rather then taboo it? If we all look at the problem and only talk about how things wont work rather then how an idea could work where will that get us.

Thank you to remind us to all keep a "positive attitude". Chloe was only pointing you that Cyan might have legal issues with collecting money. She didn’t taboo anything…

Rocketdog wrote:
I think this post is getting off subject and we are starting to get into, what is the solution.

Getting off subject ?!?
Sorry to ask at this point… “What was the subject of this whole discussion?” No one knows it at this point but you…

Rocketdog wrote:
If we are going to have a discussion on what can be done or ideas on how to get griefers out of the game then I think we should start a new topic. But I for one will not get sucked into a status quo discussion about how nothing can be done.

Re-read this paragraph out loud a few times and try to see what is wrong there dear…
Oh ok I’m gonna help you a little… a discussion about a problem calls for…ideas…ideas or if you prefer paths…paths of solutions to solve… solve the problem of that said discussion. Usually, that’s how it is.

Mac_Fife reiterates what I’ve wrote few posts before…
Mac_Fife wrote:
Reporting the griefer with evidence should ensure that they are removed from everyone's sight (at least on that account).


Here he comes, Chogon to the rescue…What are the solutions Cyan has in mind…
Chogon wrote:
Still the best thing to do is get those griefer reports into Cyan. Tor’i (aka Vicki) has no tolerance for that kind of behavior!

In my words, I wrote that

Chogon wrote:
As far as charging a fee to access MOULa - there are a number of logistic and legal problems that would inhibit that, so effectively that is not an option.

Chloe strongly advised you on that particular aspect…but of course she had a "negative attitude" right from the start so you couldn’t accept that.

Chogon wrote:
I’m just throwing out ideas here.

Chogon is a master…
He doesn’t use the forbidden word: "solution" but the praised word: "ideas".
I still wonder ideas are what for…

Chogon brings something interesting and Adam takes the ball on the rebound…
AdamJohnson wrote:
Indeed. You will have two options: mutual invisibility (and inaudibility) or the current model (you don't hear the ignored player).


Rocketdog wrote:
Yes I do believe that. I not only believe it I know it to be true. I don't care what the problem is negative thinking will give you negative results. When I said there is a attitude problem in the forums I assumed no one would think I was talking about everyone who posts here. But yes there is an attitude problem on the forum and if you don't think so go back and pick just about any post and read it, you will find negative comments make up about 1/2 of everything posted in a great number of the posts.

Have you only read back your posts to write such a "positive attitude" comment on "negative attitude" past comments?

JW Platt has a good question here:
JWPlatt wrote:
How do you feel about AdamJohnso's forward progress?


Here are my comments:

Stop that negative rubbishness right now!

Every ideas NOT going your way is bad or not worth talking about, every ideas going your way but with arguments against your thoughts are made by people with "negative attitude".

You can’t control your topic if the subject is not clear right from the start…
What do you want?
I’m still puzzled (and a lot of people must be in the same situation) as to what is your subject of discussion here...
You have a list of ideas unknown to all of us, you ranted some prehistoric discussions held in 2009, you try to intimidate everyone not thinking like yourself, you don’t want solution to the problem (you textually wrote that…), you don’t want us to talk about the problem neither, you want ideas but ideas on what?!? ideas for which goal?!?

I repeat…What do you want?
I'm sorry to say this Annabelle, but I agree with rocketdog ...
Your post is exactly the reflect of a bad problem in those forums and in the game.
If we were talking about trolls, your post had seem to say that rocketdog wrote trolls ; but we are, in a way, talking about griefers, and your post seems to say that rocketdog is a griefer.
Don't answer "no", it's useless ...
I say it's useless because I know how this kind of things works ; and I know it because some peoples have done the same kind of things with me, to make me looks like a griefer!

As I said many times, but it seems to haven't being understood, I'm playing Uru offline/online since 2004 ; if my interrest was to be a griefer, people had said 10 years ago that I'm a griefer, not only the 2 past years!
And now, because players see me like a griefer, I've lost my ingame friends, and then I've lost the fun to play this game ...

I'll not apologize for anything I did or said ; if I did or said something, it's because I think it ; but if you don't understand what I said or why I said it, just let it go and ignore it, but don't ignore "me" ...
I'm a human, you know!? I'm not a bot!
And I'm a human which spent 10 years to love Uru ; if you don't want to respect me (any choice is yours), just respect the fact that I'm a longtime player/lover of Uru and that I can have my word to say! Even if you don't understand it.

As you said "enough is enough"!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:19 am
Posts: 303
Location: ... Gone Fishing...
During the years I've been into MOULa I've not seen too many Griefers. I don't see it as a big issue. Or a threat as such. As they are too few and far between!

But I can understand that for some unprepared it might be a scary experience. But in general, I think also we (as a group present in the City week in and week out) has become better in handling those incidents that I have to say I even don't remember happened the last time. And btw. I always have a chatlog on when in the City and I've always advice people to do so too. and send a ticket to Cyan, if it happens.

We all react differently to what we experience as threats. I've been to City now several evenings in a row. Chatting with people I known for some years. They do not seem to know of any Griefers been present lately... But that don't change the issue.

So Rocketdog, if you have a list of suggestions, please present them, here, not by refering to something obscure in the Forums? My earlier posting was a reflection on what I thought was a very unclear OP. I'm still not sure I understand what that is, in fact. But I can be stupid at times...

And do not assume that people are "negative" if they don't agree with you to the point. We can only progress in this or any matter if we have an open mind and not have pre-set assumptions. That regarding how the "forum posters always behave" and how the community "is not willing to change"...

And discussions leading to a solution must always weight in pros and cons of every subject matter, I'd think... Otherwise it's futile. We, the "users" can hardly implement anything into MOULa.

But I'm very glad that chogon took time to reply... As it is only Cyan that can change things in MOULa. We can make wishlists, sure... But I've always a realist, I don't wish for the stars.

And Rocketdog... I never have or had an "agenda" in posting here or expressing my views. And I think you have some people even in your own Hood, that I've been Friends with several years. I'd think they might give you a relevant picture of my personae if needed...

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