Getting time to let go

rocketdog · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:44 pm

JWPlatt

My Teamspeak server is down and that's what my Bevin uses to chat in URU live I will need to work on that today but I will get list to you as soon as I possibly can.It is a large task and will take some time I need to go back through all the posts I can find on the subject.

I agree Tai'lahr is on to something good.

Karkadann · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:50 pm

If we want the atmosphere of the Caverns to improve it has to be a community effort.
I guess it all comes down to how much each of us as individuals want this, and can we
work together to achieve this goal. Because only together we can make a difference.

TheScar(.fr) · **Joined:** Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:38 pm **Posts:** 317

Hum, yes! ...
Some ask for help,
some others wants to help,
the ones which ask for help, don't share the keys with the ones which wants to help for them to be able to help,
the ones which wants to help, can't, because they don't have the keys to help ...
In that way, we can't work together and the atmosphere of the Caverns (and of the forums) isn't improved.
If we really want to change the things, some have to share the keys ; but do they really want to share them, or do they prefer to keep the keys in their own pockets to do what they want to be done?
Maybe they forgot that the keys are not theirs.

Karkadann · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:21 pm

correct me if im wrong cuz this seems a bit confusing to me

hypothetical situation

I ask The Scar for help, but im not willing to give him everything he need to help me?
Why am I not willing to give him what he needs to help me?

OK im still confused.

Sometimes I try to step outside of my self and try to figure out the situation from different point of view but this one seems like a trust issue, Im in a video game I need help but im not willing to tell you what you need to help me. Or im trying to help you and I need some in game info that your not willing to tell me?

My spelling and gammer is in no way a reflectioin on my level of intelegents however it tense to make me look like a moron over the net its just that can't spell a lot of what I say or think, Im acualy a lot smarter then most people give me credit for but this one has me baffled,

or perhaps I misunderstood something

rocketdog · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:01 pm

Karkadann

I think TCB The Scar's statement is a paradox about the forum. And is just referring to the lack of cooperation between the members. TCB The Scar please correct me if I'm wrong.

rocketdog · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:36 pm

Tai'lahr Thanks!

I really think this idea is the best idea anyone has come up with so far. There are some details that need to be worked out but I think it is all doable. Some of the things I have been thinking about are,

1. How do the new people get help from the seasoned players? If chat is open to ask for help they can still grief others.
2. Do we need to stop them from being able to write KI mails and sending them to other players.
3. Should the new player be required to not only have an account for an amount of time but also be required to play a number of ages before he/she can gain access to the public areas.
4. How would this prevent the new person from griefing anyone who is a member of his/her Bevin? Would there be no Bevin? Would each newbie have his own Bevin?

These are questions that can all be answered I think without to much trouble. I hope others are thinking about it also.

Mac_Fife · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:16 pm

I still think the "Enhanced Ignore" that Adam is working on will be more useful in the long term, but maybe together with restricted access for new accounts it could make for a more powerful combination.

In reply to rocketdog's bullets:

I really don't think there's a whole lot you can do about that. New players need to have an easy to access means to talk to other players. The saviour would be that they could only do so in limited areas so the effects wouldn't be so widespread and possibly a lot easier to monitor.
That might be an option. A genuinely "New" player probably wouldn't know about KI-mails anyway. However that would probably require some modification of the client KI code and there's the possibility that a determined griefer might just use a modified client that doesn't implement that blocking feature.
You could say the have to do all the prime ages first (like you would if you'd played ABM before PoTS). But I think if you just say an account has to be X days old, then it has the effect of stopping a banned griefer from immediately returning on a new username. Don't make things too hard for the genuine new player.
Probably the same as 1.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Nicoleleigh · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:22 pm

I still think the ignore feature is the easiest.

How many griefers are we talking about?
The talk here makes it sound like there are
dozens of griefers, which I really doubt.
The times I have been in the game there was only
the regulars that are there every evening. I haven't
seen a griefer except for "you know who" and all they
were doing was zipping in the city.
I see some of the regulars talking about liquor and bars,
but I am sure that isn't a problem.
I wish someone would KI mail me a list of these griefers.
But, I do realize that one griefer is too many.
I also know that a few people are not liked for different
reasons. A bit of drama, I think.
I even heard a popular player who called a player a "troll"
because she didn't agree with what she was talking about.
No cursing, mind you, but she surely didn't warrant being
called a "troll".
Anytime you get a group of players in one spot, it is inevitable
that some will disagree.

So, run a chat log for Cyan and put them on Ignore.

-Nicoleleigh-

TOOO · **Posted:** Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:33 am

I agree with Nicoleleigh: The Ignore, Log & Report Option is our best bet, but I like this Enhanced Ignore idea.

Is it possible that the griefer problem is being exaggerated? Are there really that many "determined" griefers? Are we blowing this whole thing out of proportion, and merely making ourselves paranoid? Yes, griefers are a nuisance, but you don't blow up a city block just to kill one mosquito.

Remember: in the end, we want to encourage new players and discourage griefers, but anything we do to one group, we also do to the other. That's the conundrum.

Nicoleleigh · **Posted:** Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:08 am

Yes, the Enhanced Ignore is an excellent idea.
I sure hope that Adam can come up with it.
Hopefully, it can be done without too much trouble.
One click and it can't get any easier.
And yes, don't forget that chat log.
Cyan is not our enemy, the griefer is.
When people put the nuckle head on ignore,
it won't be long they will be gone.
Then eventually another will show up and the cycle goes on.
We don't need to make it harder.
It is our Cavern and we have to try to do these
things ourselves without having to call in the enemy.
Chat log + ignore = bye bye nuckle head.
We all love URU in our own different and special way.
Just make it harder on them to communicate with us
with the rubbish they do and say.
I was in the game for a short while this evening and
saw no problem. But, I am not naive enough to think
that a griefer of some sort will return.
Be kind as much as possible and keep playing and keep donating.
Oh.....can someone get rid of the "sneeze" emote. Hate that emote.
Sneeze and wipe it on your sleave? Lol.

kaeebonrai · **Joined:** Thu May 08, 2014 12:11 am **Posts:** 53

Restricting access to new players would be incredibly detrimental to the game as a whole - those new players are the game's lifeblood - and we already lose so many at the start /anyways/.

Sure, you might stop the occasional griefer - but you'll also stop new blood. =/

tommyap · **Posted:** Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:45 pm

kaeebonrai wrote:

Restricting access to new players would be incredibly detrimental to the game as a whole - those new players are the game's lifeblood - and we already lose so many at the start /anyways/.

Sure, you might stop the occasional griefer - but you'll also stop new blood. =/

I agree. One problem we have allways had, and still do, is isolation of new players.
Adding some sort of barrier will make it harder for newbees to meet other players, while it offers very little in the way of deterring griefers. Very bad idea.

TheScar(.fr) · **Joined:** Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:38 pm **Posts:** 317

Quotes:

[Reveal] Spoiler:

Karkadann wrote:

If we want the atmosphere of the Caverns to improve it has to be a community effort.
I guess it all comes down to how much each of us as individuals want this, and can we
work together to achieve this goal. Because only together we can make a difference.

TCB The Scar wrote:

Hum, yes! ...
Some ask for help,
some others wants to help,
the ones which ask for help, don't share the keys with the ones which wants to help for them to be able to help,
the ones which wants to help, can't, because they don't have the keys to help ...
In that way, we can't work together and the atmosphere of the Caverns (and of the forums) isn't improved.
If we really want to change the things, some have to share the keys ; but do they really want to share them, or do they prefer to keep the keys in their own pockets to do what they want to be done?
Maybe they forgot that the keys are not theirs.

Karkadann wrote:

correct me if im wrong cuz this seems a bit confusing to me

hypothetical situation

I ask The Scar for help, but im not willing to give him everything he need to help me?
Why am I not willing to give him what he needs to help me?

OK im still confused.

Sometimes I try to step outside of my self and try to figure out the situation from different point of view but this one seems like a trust issue, Im in a video game I need help but im not willing to tell you what you need to help me. Or im trying to help you and I need some in game info that your not willing to tell me?

My spelling and gammer is in no way a reflectioin on my level of intelegents however it tense to make me look like a moron over the net its just that can't spell a lot of what I say or think, Im acualy a lot smarter then most people give me credit for but this one has me baffled,

or perhaps I misunderstood something

rocketdog wrote:

Karkadann

I think TCB The Scar's statement is a paradox about the forum. And is just referring to the lack of cooperation between the members. TCB The Scar please correct me if I'm wrong.

What I tried to say is that some people ask for help, but they don't need/want help from people which don't have the same point of view than them ;
in that way, the "to do" list only contains what they want to be done, and they looks like they are working "alone":
in that way, when the things they make will be done, the players will say "wow you've done it alone?! It's great! You're great!" ...
They want to be seen like Gods, but they are simply Dictators ;
they don't really love this game, they simply love themself and Power ;
they use their screen as mirror, and this game as a tool to show their Power.
It's the perfect reflect of this World ; the reflect of this rotten World.
And they do nothing to make this World better, because they are as this World is.
Some years ago, Uru was a safe place ... It's no longer a safe place ; now, it's the same place than this World: a rotten place.

youtube.com: mVQpfoqsY8Q
youtube.com: 1yw1Tgj9-VU

/wavebye

tommyap · **Posted:** Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:12 pm

@TCB The Scar;
I do not know what kind of keys you were referring to earlier.
I have never needed keys to help a newbee, but i do remember one new player complaining about a "helper" who asked for her password, and claimed he could not help her without it, some years ago.
She refused offcourse. I do not asume this is the kind of key you meant.
The only real problem with helping newbees i have encountered is that it can be difficult to keep in touch before they have a KI.
Over time i may have lost one or two, before i could send them on their way with a few basics, but not much more. Please clarify what you meant by keys.

TCB The Scar wrote:

What I tried to say is that some people ask for help, but they don't need/want help from people which don't have the same point of view than them ;

If a newbee does not want my help, fine, no problem.
I do not think there is any requirement for newbees to agree with my point of view on basicly anything, for me to help them out.
Unless they are very obnoxious, i will help them anyway, provided they want me to.

TCB The Scar wrote:

in that way, the "to do" list only contains what they want to be done, and they looks like they are working "alone":
in that way, when the things they make will be done, the players will say "wow you've done it alone?! It's great! You're great!" ...

Some level of selfishness is expected and accepted as far as i am concerned.
Are you referring to the helped or the helper?
A helper/greeter solving puzzles for a newbee is bad, but in reality they can do it only once and end up ignored.
I have met newbees complaining about a previous "helper", made a new avvie and start afresh.
Some will have left the game for good. That is bad, but i do not think there is anything we can do about that.

TCB The Scar wrote:

It's the perfect reflect of this World ; the reflect of this rotten World.
And they do nothing to make this World better, because they are as this World is.
Some years ago, Uru was a safe place ... It's no longer a safe place ; now, it's the same place than this World: a rotten place.

The world is made by people, some are kind some are cruel.
No on-line environment can ever be "safe", but to me Uru seems better than most.

Doobes2 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:40 pm

TCB The Scar wrote:

Some years ago, Uru was a safe place ... It's no longer a safe place ; now, it's the same place than this World: a rotten place.

Sadly, you're going to see this when a game is free to play. "Some years ago" was when the game was run by Gametap and required a fee to play, luring mostly players that were true fans of the game/series.

Now that it's free to play, the game is easier for trolls/griefers to access...which can be annoying, but this is the internet we're talking about. Morons who have somehow gained internet access (and miraculously refrained from chewing through the cords or tossing the modem at the wall because the shiny lights blinked at them XD) are out there in droves and one must expect that they'd filter in here too. One needs to develop a thicker skin when dealing with the world at large.

As has been said before, use the /ignore function if someone is bothering you, then report them. If they happen to do that stupid thing where they stand inside your avatar, try to laugh it off with your friends and talk about how ridiculous this person is being (and they are

).

Griefers thrive on attention. If you don't give it to them, eventually they will leave...unless they just have THAT much time on their hands.

In which case you can laugh at them some more.

kaeebonrai wrote:

Restricting access to new players would be incredibly detrimental to the game as a whole - those new players are the game's lifeblood - and we already lose so many at the start /anyways/.

Sure, you might stop the occasional griefer - but you'll also stop new blood. =/

Also, THIS. ^^^

Getting time to let go

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