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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 9:14 pm 
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Why does Atrus say you and I will live here forever when they have the riven book they go to in the next game... they dont touch the myst book again


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 10:20 pm 
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[Reveal] Spoiler: Myst and possibly Riven spoilers
If Atrus says "you and I will live here forever", then you did it wrong. ;) That's the bad ending when you don't have the page that Atrus asked you for. When that happens, the two couldn't just escape to Riven, because (as I understand it) the book wasn't stable enough yet for Atrus to tell whether it's safe to link through, and because they'd just get imprisoned by Gehn. The Stranger also can't take the Myst book to Riven as a way back, because then Gehn could get access to a real linking book. That's why they only took a trap book that looks like it leads to D'ni.

By the way, there are the Cyan forums at http://forums.cyan.com/ which are meant for discussing Cyan's games other than MO:ULa. There's a Myst section there too, which is probably a better place for Myst discussion than here.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:22 pm 
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samd wrote:
Why does Atrus say you and I will live here forever when they have the riven book they go to in the next game... they don't touch the myst book again


Remember, tho, when he sent the player to Riven, his plan was for the player to signal him, and he'd come into Riven with a Myst book. They'd still have to have a working Myst book, to get OUT of Riven before they went there; otherwise they'd just be trapped in Riven.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:37 pm 
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Unless Atrus Catherine and the stranger all jump into the fissure because as atrus said served as a safe passage home to wherever they came from...

HarveyMidnight wrote:
samd wrote:
Why does Atrus say you and I will live here forever when they have the riven book they go to in the next game... they don't touch the myst book again


Remember, tho, when he sent the player to Riven, his plan was for the player to signal him, and he'd come into Riven with a Myst book. They'd still have to have a working Myst book, to get OUT of Riven before they went there; otherwise they'd just be trapped in Riven.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:29 am 
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samd wrote:
Unless Atrus Catherine and the stranger all jump into the fissure because as atrus said served as a safe passage home to wherever they came from...


No, no... you're confused. Years before, Atrus dropped his Myst book into the fissure---- that's why the Stranger found it: because the fissure leads to the Stranger's home-world. Atrus said he believed the fissure would served as a safe passage home to wherever the Stranger came from-- not EVERYBODY who ever jumps into it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 12:55 pm 
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HarveyMidnight wrote:
Years before, Atrus dropped his Myst book into the fissure---- that's why the Stranger found it: because the fissure leads to the Stranger's home-world.

Well, we now know that the fissure leads to the desert, so you're correct on that part, but the Myst book wasn't dropped into the fissure "years before" the events of Riven. Although the Riven game was released after the Myst game, the events of Riven actually took place before the events of Myst. Catherine and Atrus left Riven by using the Myst book and in the process, Atrus dropped it into the fissure and that's how it was found by the Stranger who came to Myst.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 2:28 pm 
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the Myst book wasn't dropped into the fissure "years before" the events of Riven.


Yes, it was. Gehn himself even says that Atrus trapped him in Riven "30 years ago".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFAVFxH1X24

Watch from 1:15 to 1:40

Quote:
Although the Riven game was released after the Myst game, the events of Riven actually took place before the events of Myst. Catherine and Atrus left Riven by using the Myst book and in the process, Atrus dropped it into the fissure and that's how it was found by the Stranger who came to Myst.


I don't even know what you're talking about. Riven takes place after Myst. Atrus says at the end of Myst, that he's "fighting a a foe greater than my sons could even imagine" -- referring to Gehn -- and he may need the Stranger's help at some point in the future. He says that until then, the Stranger is free to roam the Ages in the library of Myst. The Stranger at that point, has no way home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25TvKtQw3Gs

Start about 2:12

The first words Atrus says to the Stranger in Riven, is "Thank God you've returned." -- Atrus has asked the Stranger to come and help with Gehn, and suggests he may finally be able to send the Stranger back to his home Age.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM02NHqeejo

Starts about 2:39

How on Earth did the Stranger even "Return" to Myst, in the beginning of the 'Riven' game... if the Myst book he uses, won't even be left for him to find until the end of the game?

Atrus was already calling the Stranger "my friend" in the Riven game.. if it happened before Myst, then Atrus should have recognized the Stranger as his "friend" who helped him escape Riven. So, why does he ask, "Who the Devil are YOU?" in Myst, when he first sees the Stranger?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZPQ_O9yzk4


I don't know where you get the idea that Riven is a prequel. Look at the box: "Riven: The Sequel to Myst".

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Last edited by HarveyMidnight on Mon May 23, 2016 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 3:15 pm 
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HarveyMidnight wrote:
I don't even know what you're talking about.

I'm talking about the difference between the games and the actual events (in the books) on which they were based.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 3:28 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
HarveyMidnight wrote:
I don't even know what you're talking about.

I'm talking about the difference between the games and the actual events (in the books) on which they were based.


Lemme correct myself.. no offense, but YOU don't even know what you're talking about. Have you READ the books?

The games aren't BASED on the books--- The Myst game came first; after it was successful, the same guys who CREATED the game, wrote the books as 'backstory', and wrote Riven. There's no difference between the events of Myst, Riven, and the books... they are all in the same canon.

In the Book of Atrus---- Atrus and Catherine are just teenagers; they MEET for the first time, in Riven... where they are prisoners of Gehn-- THIS is point when Gehn tries to kill Atrus -- In the game Riven, Gehn is SPECIFICALLY referring to these events: the days he was arrogant and ambitious & tried to kill Atrus, and Atrus trapped him on Riven with no books or inks... Gehn is talking about the end of 'The Book of Atrus'... events which were 30 years before the events of 'Riven'.

Atrus and Catherine tossed the Myst book into the fissure back THEN, when they were "newylweds' and first escaped Riven into Myst, at the end of "The Book of Atrus". THAT Myst book is the one the Stranger first found.

And when the Stranger first came to Myst, in the GAME Myst, Atrus and Catherine have been living on Myst Island for years as man and wife; they have two grown sons.

Riven takes place AFTER that, after the Stranger has already become a friend to Atrus.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:26 pm 
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HarveyMidnight wrote:
Tai'lahr wrote:
HarveyMidnight wrote:
I don't even know what you're talking about.

I'm talking about the difference between the games and the actual events (in the books) on which they were based.
The games aren't BASED on the books


I'd like to chime in on this "Games based on Books" thing, just to clear up any confusion that might floating around.

  • Out of Character, the 'adaptation' thing was made up for URU IC talk. And any talk of the games being based on books or books being based off of other books? It's just In Character talk. There are no physical books or journals that the Games were based on.
  • In Character, the books and games are based off of *Different* journals, not each other, and are meant to provide full explanation of the timeline, and not retread the same section of story over again.

Either way you look at it, IC or OOC, the story timeline is pretty firmly Book of Ti'ana ==> Book of Atrus ==> Myst ==> Riven ==> Everything Else.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:13 pm 
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Okay, to clarify, I didn't actually say that the games were based on the books. I was referring to the "real" events (IC speaking) on which both the games and the books were based. I probably shouldn't have referenced the books at all, but they do give a more in-depth picture of the story and timeline.

I will confess that I haven't played Riven in years, so I didn't realize that, in it, Gehn had referred to the events taking place years before. Therefore, I stand corrected.

However, ICly, I still believe that Cyan was inspired to create Riven based on the events that happened before Myst. :P

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:19 am 
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Quote:
I was referring to the "real" events (IC speaking) on which both the games and the books were based.


I don't think you can pin that down to a single "real" IC history.

Originally the books were "the real events" on which the first two games were based. Then the storyline was updated for Uru (e.g., putting the Great Shaft in America) which turned the books somewhat fictional. Then we have a couple of different versions of Uru (offline and online aren't compatible), followed by Myst 5 which I'm pretty sure retcons things yet again. (I have never been convinced by the idea that "you" are Dr Watson in that story.)

So Cyan has reimagined "the real storyline" with every release. The best you can say is that they have tried to keep things as consistent as possible without completely miring themselves down. One sympathizes with their desire to start with a clean slate for Obduction.

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:20 am 
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...And this is why I prefer franchises where there is a single consistent canon that is never retconned. Like Star Trek, or Star Wars, or Doctor Who.

(That is a little joke.) (Very little. I know.)

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:54 am 
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belford wrote:
Quote:
I was referring to the "real" events (IC speaking) on which both the games and the books were based.


I don't think you can pin that down to a single "real" IC history.

Originally the books were "the real events" on which the first two games were based. Then the storyline was updated for Uru (e.g., putting the Great Shaft in America) which turned the books somewhat fictional. Then we have a couple of different versions of Uru (offline and online aren't compatible), followed by Myst 5 which I'm pretty sure retcons things yet again. (I have never been convinced by the idea that "you" are Dr Watson in that story.)

So Cyan has reimagined "the real storyline" with every release. The best you can say is that they have tried to keep things as consistent as possible without completely miring themselves down. One sympathizes with their desire to start with a clean slate for Obduction.


Well, that's one on me. Far as I knew, all the Myst games & books had one consistent canon. Uru is the only game with a separate canon--- and in Uru's canon the Myst games and books are loosely based on "true events" but have been dramatized in order to make them more entertaining... and in some cases-- such as when the Cleft was erroneously said to be located in the Middle East--- to protect proprietary information.

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:45 pm 
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belford wrote:
Quote:
I was referring to the "real" events (IC speaking) on which both the games and the books were based.


I don't think you can pin that down to a single "real" IC history.

Originally the books were "the real events" on which the first two games were based. Then the storyline was updated for Uru (e.g., putting the Great Shaft in America) which turned the books somewhat fictional.


The novels were always somewhat fictional, due in large part to being written by David Wingrove rather than directly by people at Cyan. Hence errors like Kerath's Arch being near the cavern wall rather than Ae'gura, the D'ni writing system being logographic rather than alphabetic, and the cavern being in the Middle East. Of course the explanation that Catherine's unseen journals are the original from which both novels and games are adapted is convenient for both mistakes and retcons...

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