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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:06 am 
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You still then have the question of how to identify repeat accounts. I'm going to throw my hat in for two factor identification as well. I think GW2 basically requires it now, so it's not an unheard of practice. There's always the good old "PM here on the forum" for an account if we don't have a device, then it'll be a game of checking IPs. I'm sure there's a low cost or possibly even free way to accomplish this. I wonder if Google Authenticator would be appropriate?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:23 am 
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I haven't seen anyone suggest invites from current players yet. I thought there used to be a, (possibly broken,) system for inviting new players to Uru from inside the game. I could be mis-remembering.

But, say currently existing players could invite their friends to join via email address, by typing "/invite [email protected]". The server could keep track of invited emails, and allow people to sign up for new accounts with those emails.

Only letting people sign up with emails on the list would be better, in my opinion, than not letting people sign up at all, and it would be an automated system, not requiring input from anyone at Cyan.

This could, potentially, be combined with some of the other ideas here.

Another one is: no one in this thread, that I saw, mentioned the idea of letting the owner(s) of an age /kick a user out of it? If it's a single person's private age, the /kick command could only work for them, if it was a neighborhood instance, it could only work for hood members, (or perhaps a number of hood members.) Public instances could still require Cyan to kick people out.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:26 am 
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Y'all, I tried to implement a /kick command at one point. I withdrew it after awhile because I determined there were too many security holes and ways to abuse it for it to be viable.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:39 am 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
Y'all, I tried to implement a /kick command at one point. I withdrew it after awhile because I determined there were too many security holes and ways to abuse it for it to be viable.


Not trying to be contrarian, and I hope it doesn't come across that way, but, what were the security holes?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Never ask someone to publically explain what security holes they may have until they have all been patched - it just tempts people to try out the exploit or other potential weaknesses related to it.

Invites are a thought, but I don't know if the feature was heavily linked to the GameTap account management or not. In any case it would require some significant adaptation of the present account system to reference the list. And it's not totally abuse free anyway - a griefer can befriend a legitimate player and induce them to give an invite and once a griefer has an account they could then keep that account "clean" and use it to issue further invites to alternate identities. So you'd also need to track who the referrer was, and you end up with a bit of a management task.

One of the forms of griefing that was discussed in the past, and argued against a /kick in private ages, was for a griefer to invite unsuspecting players to a private age and then /kick their victims out.

Don't underestimate how devious these characters can be :(

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Fair enough on the security holes. I agree with the points about how griefers could exploit the invite and private-age-kick suggestions, but it seems like both methods would be harder for griefers without making life much harder for ordinary players. If I'm in someone else's private age, and all of a sudden they kick me back to my own relto, I would wonder why they had done it, but it wouldn't be nearly as bad as if they could kick me out of the City, for instance. I'd just go do something else, with other people.

I think dedicated griefers could always exploit any system. Our goal, it seems to me, is more to raise the cost of griefing others without raising the costs of playing the game normally or running the server for Cyan or shard admins.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Cyan's shard seems to be the only one with the griefers/troll problem that I've noticed, perhaps if the other shards would share the technique they use to deal with griefers/troll Cyan could implement something similar.

So far I think the enhanced ignore thing seems to be the best bet and has the least likely chance of being abused by a malicious cliche.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Karkadann wrote:
Cyan's shard seems to be the only one with the griefers/troll problem that I've noticed, perhaps if the other shards would share the technique they use to deal with griefers/troll Cyan could implement something similar.
Quite simply, they're less populated and therefore not as much fun to grief. Plus, they're not owned by Cyan who is the real target, IMO.

And, finally, being privately owned and operated, fall under the "right to refuse to service to anyone."

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
Karkadann wrote:
Cyan's shard seems to be the only one with the griefers/troll problem that I've noticed, perhaps if the other shards would share the technique they use to deal with griefers/troll Cyan could implement something similar.
Quite simply, they're less populated and therefore not as much fun to grief. Plus, they're not owned by Cyan who is the real target, IMO.

And, finally, being privately owned and operated, fall under the "right to refuse to service to anyone."


That makes sense. OK on the enhanced ignore thing, what if the ignore works both ways. Click ignore and it not only makes the troll disappear it makes you disappear to the troll. If the troll is a problem for everyone, everyone puts the troll on ignore and everywhere the troll go's is empty. The troll realizes that there is no one left to troll and leaves. Even if he gets a new avatar and continues trolling, the same thing happens until he decides to act in a manner that does not get the troll on every bodies ignore list.

problem solved

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:35 pm 
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The two-way ignore seems like the best option to me, but it's still a "reactive" approach and the griefer needs to have shown his/her hand in order for people to start blocking. In groups, it's easy enough to remind another player of the feature but someone on their own, maybe a newer player, may not know how to use it, or have forgotten about it.

Some of the griefers that I know about have shown themselves to be remarkably persistent and have no problem at all going off and creating new avatars or new accounts and coming back again after they get banned.

Once someone has been banned, it'd be ideal if you could stop them ever coming back and if people could only ever have one, static IP address or one email address, then that would be relatively simple, but in reality it's too easy to get round all the conventional blocks and filters.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:41 am 
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JWPlatt wrote:
HarveyMidnight wrote:
Maybe Cyan even goes so far as to charge a very **small** one-time fee for registration
Cyan won't do this. They are committed to a free experience for MOULa with voluntary donations.


I also mentioned that, maybe there wouldn't actually need to be a fee charged.. but requiring something like an active PayPal account to register, would be additional identifying info.

Mac mentioned that it's really easy for griefers to get multiple IP numbers and email addresses--- making it harder to spot returning griefers. Seems to me, tho, it'd be more difficult for them to get multiple online payment accounts.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:32 am 
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HarveyMidnight wrote:
Seems to me, tho, it'd be more difficult for them to get multiple online payment accounts.

More difficult still to get a new cell phone every time they get banned, don't you think?
viewtopic.php?p=425121#p425121

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:11 am 
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For an individual to open a U.S. PayPal account and use the PayPal services, you must be a resident of the United States or one of its territories and at least 18 years old, or the age of majority in your state of residence.
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/u ... le.x=en_US


With Google Voice, you get a free phone number for calls, text messages,…
https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:37 pm 
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HarveyMidnight wrote:
Mac mentioned that it's really easy for griefers to get multiple IP numbers and email addresses--- making it harder to spot returning griefers. Seems to me, tho, it'd be more difficult for them to get multiple online payment accounts.

Yes, and I'm sure that will be one of the avenues Cyan are exploring, but it's also more difficult for Cyan as there'd need to be some work to implement an interface to the PayPal APIs to do a validation lookup. On the other hand, I guess whatever solution might be served at will involve some effort.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:02 pm 
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Is the account creation and authentication part of the code open source? If so, we could take on some of the workload.

(Yes, I'm volunteering.)


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