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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:36 am 
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Maxsilver5721 wrote:
But, GreyDragons quote above makes this sounds like the complete opposite. It sounds to me like they want us to start the story. As if mabey, they have a *reaction* planned, and are waiting for our *action* to kick things off, or that they are waiting for us to make the first move, before they do anything too bold or major.

Wow. Come on guys, we gotta do something!


Yeah.

Problem is?

I can't think of anything to do.

What -can- I do? Sit on my rear in a courtyard? That's not doing much. That's, actually, doing nothing at all. (I support the idea behind it, at least the 'lets just try to start punching story-buttons randomly and see what happens" bit, but again, it's not much, and it certainly isn't the story I want to know about.)

Talk?

Eh, that doesn't seem to get me very far. I seem to be too logically oriented to communicate effectively, and besides, the one time I met a DRC member, I started rapidly poking holes in the story just by being curious. I also have no idea what to -say- that is going to change anything? "Work faster"? Pff. I don't want them to work faster, I want them to work -well-. "Give us..." what? Give what? "Do..." what?

Beyond that, I've nothing I can do.

EDIT: In fact, now that I think about it, the I DO want story, and I DO want to have an effect on the story, but the story I want is related to Yeesha and the D'ni, not the politics and business deals of Cate and the DRC.

They're boring. Ok, so some of them are quirky and loveable. And they're "hard working", etc. But I've never really gotten to know any of them. I've at least met Yeesha (years ago), and seen recordings of her as well. Zandi too. The DRC? They're ephemeral folk whom I don't know, have never met, have never talked to, and seem to not need me at all. What reason do I have to interact with them in any way?

Give me Yeesha! Give me the Bahro! Give me stuff that involves the Art and the D'ni! And, hopefully, something I can make decisions on. Not this "fill in the blank" sort of "What do you want to do?"

We aren't advanced enough in the story for fill-in-the-blanks yet.


Last edited by Moleculor on Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:39 am 
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Moleculor wrote:

Beyond that, I've nothing I can do.


Then that is a lack of creativity on your part.

What about trying to set up a movement whose goal is to IMPEDE the DRC's progress? What about getting one trying to kick them out of the cavern entirely?

What about as soon as the GZ opens up trying to MIScalibrate it?

What about setting up some sort of zoological group that wants to find more animals in the cavern? What about calling for a cavern-wide holiday?

It is our job to ACT and theirs to REACT. If you can't think of anything to do, then that's your fault, not theirs.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:46 am 
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macnbc wrote:
Moleculor wrote:

Beyond that, I've nothing I can do.


Then that is a lack of creativity on your part.

What about trying to set up a movement whose goal is to IMPEDE the DRC's progress? What about getting one trying to kick them out of the cavern entirely?


But I don't want them out. So... ergo... by me not trying to force them out, I've made my storyline decision. Ok. So I'm now "doing something". Ball's back in Cyan's court.

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What about as soon as the GZ opens up trying to MIScalibrate it?


*blink* How do we know it can be miscalibrated? I know there was some sort of reference in one of the games Cyan released that showed what the back areas of the GZ might look like, but I have no idea if they're realistic. And from what I recall of the GZ manual, I don't think it can be miscalibrated.

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What about setting up some sort of zoological group that wants to find more animals in the cavern?


I've been up and down and throughout all the areas of the currently accessible cavern beelions and beelions of times, and not seen any more animals.

So ok, done with that.

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What about calling for a cavern-wide holiday?


I actually gave that some thought, and would have pushed for it amongst the general populace had launch been on an anniversary. I may still for the launch day, or some other day. But until Uru launches, I won't truly have anything to celebrate.

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It is our job to ACT and theirs to REACT. If you can't think of anything to do, then that's your fault, not theirs.


You might've posted this after my edit. Perhaps go back and think about responding to that portion as well?


Last edited by Moleculor on Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:46 am 
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Kaylar wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but I wanna go rock-climbing! I wanna go barrier-jumping! I wanna repel down the side of that cliff beside the library!


So... you want to be Batman? :P


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:51 am 
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Molecular I think you're missing my point..

Cyan may very well be able to adapt what they're working on to what the story demands. So if like I used in my example a zoological group was founded, it may behoove them to CREATE more animals.

You see where I'm going with this?

We act, they react. We're being told that we're in the driver's seat here. Make an impact.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:20 am 
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macnbc wrote:
Molecular I think you're missing my point..

Cyan may very well be able to adapt what they're working on to what the story demands. So if like I used in my example a zoological group was founded, it may behoove them to CREATE more animals.

You see where I'm going with this?

We act, they react. We're being told that we're in the driver's seat here. Make an impact.


Ok, yes, I did completely miss your point. To me, animals are not storyline. They are not characters, they contain no plot, speak no dialogue. If I want animals added to the cavern, I wouldn't go around looking for them hoping that a Cyanite would decide that this was the storyline they were looking to respond to, and toss a few animals my way.

I'd make a feature request.

I definitely can't expect Cyan to say "Give us something to react to with regards to storyline" and expect that statement to also apply to features.

I KINDA get your point about looking for a particular reaction in order to get said reaction, but the story I'm interested in is Yeesha, the D'ni, and the Bahro, and the people who've come into the cavern with their own personal attempts at storyline along those lines have been looked at as 'crazy users trying to create their own unsanctioned storylines' and nothing has ever come of it.

So that approach doesn't seem to be working.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:31 am 
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macnbc wrote:
We act, they react. We're being told that we're in the driver's seat here. Make an impact.

No, actually that's backwards. We react by staging protests about this and that and this and that - I mean, what else can we do but gather people in one place and march around and fill the chat buffer until it explodes? And then Cyan acts, in ways that barely move it from its pre-planned storytelling. Perhaps the identity of the person leading the march is up for grabs, but not the result.

Here's a good test. Instead of protesting the loss of the forums, which was an action of Cyan's that has provoked a reaction from the explorers, go for something completely original. Protest the unwillingness of the DRC to make, oh, Myst Island accessible right now. Get hundreds of explorers marching, sitting, protesting, flooding Ae'gura with angry chats of Hey, Ho, Cate must Go! We act, they react by . . . . ignoring us?

Rats in a maze think they're in the driver's seat, too. They act, and that old white coated bozo reacts by giving them some cheese. Some kinda of drivers seat.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:32 am 
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Zardoz wrote:
Rats in a maze think they're in the driver's seat, too. They act, and that old white coated bozo reacts by giving them some cheese. Some kinda of drivers seat.


Then what would you suggest players do?

Nothing?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:46 am 
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Oh for heaven's sake, go to the rallies and have a good time. It's about the only reason for visiting Uru during these down times. But be imaginative! While you're there protesting the loss of the forums, toss in a few jeers for the DRC being so slow! And don't forget to demand to know what happened to Phil Henderson!! And Dr. Watson!! And then, make plans for next Wednesday nights protest march, we can make it a regular date!

For me, though, I just say No to Cheese. I'd love to get everyone to boycott the cavern and see how Cate responded to that!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:58 am 
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My mother used to tell me that sometimes you have to do something, even if it's wrong.

I say make a big loud noisy fuss and see what happens. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:07 am 
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macnbc wrote:
It is our job to ACT and theirs to REACT. If you can't think of anything to do, then that's your fault, not theirs.


However, our 'action' are completely limited by the environment. We can do only those actions which the game engine allows.

Let's look at what we can do. We can emote. We can chat. We can look at things, and interact with a very small set of specific things in cavern (a few doors, some specific aspects of the ages, etc.). But other than that, we really have no direct effect on the environment.

I can start up a movement to miscalibrate the Zero... but unless Cyan said "Hey, thats a good idea, let's run with that" I can't actually do anything but say "Hey, I'm gonna miscalibrate the Zero. Look at me!"

There is a reality bottleneck - all changes to reality require Cyan to buy off on them and implement them. Sure, we can talk, argue, posture, etc. But any time we try to do anything else, we simply have no way change things.

In a lot of ways, it's like high school. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:08 am 
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Zardoz wrote:
just say No to Cheese


Ok. I now officially want a shirt that says this.

It's like the old magician's trick: Pick one of these two items I've put out on the table.

If you pick the one I want you to pick, we'll remove the other item.

If you pick the one I didn't want you to pick, we'll pretend that you picking it meant you wanted that one removed.

Either way, the one I wanted to stay stays, and the one I wanted to be removed is removed.

Cyan's the magician, we're the audience.

We can 'protest' all we want, but it's up to them whether they want to do something, or not do something, to do what we want, or do the exact opposite (or come up with a reason to do the opposite, or come up with a way to MAKE us want the opposite).


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:40 am 
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I can't believe some of the things I see people saying in this thread.

You say you have nothing to do. So GD says that's because the story is waiting for the players to DO something. So you say you don't know what to do. People suggest things to do. You bash that.

Seriously people, do you even WANT to play Uru?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:47 am 
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macnbc wrote:
Seriously people, do you even WANT to play Uru?

I truly do.

This isn't playing Uru.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:51 am 
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I'd like to try some weird things. Like getting a bunch of people together in someone's Relto and doing a sit-in at Yeesha. :lol: Explorers For Better Yeesha Communication! (Well, not so much a sit-in like a protest, but more like a pow-wow... hey? Hello? We'd like to talk to you... are you out there? Please?)

Somewhat silly example, but I'm tempted to try it just to see if anything would come of it... after all, who doesn't want to hear from Yeesha? ;)

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Last edited by Sosiqui on Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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