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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:55 am 
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tkwiggins wrote:
macnbc wrote:
Seriously people, do you even WANT to play Uru?

I truly do.

This isn't playing Uru.


Then what is? After you solve all the ages, get all the markers, read all the journals.. what, exactly, is one to do until the next thing is released?

The suggestion here is to do "something", which is always preferable to doing "nothing."

Where's the problem?

Another suggestion on how someone can influence the story beyond a "sit-in": When a DRC member or Cate shows up for something, spring a little "surprise" on them.. have a group of people roleplay out a situation and see if the character will go along with it. One thing I've noticed all too often is that when a character appears in the game it becomes a lot like a press conference, just besieging the character with questions. Perhaps a different tactic is in order.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:18 am 
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Zardoz wrote:
And Dr. Watson!! And then, make plans for next Wednesday nights protest march, we can make it a regular date!


Does it have to be a Wednesday? I'd hate to have the protests run against Spoken Word Night. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:35 am 
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Wow, I never thought it would come to this, and don't expect it to ever happen again, but I will quote something with which I agree from this person:
Moleculor wrote:
EDIT: In fact, now that I think about it, the I DO want story, and I DO want to have an effect on the story, but the story I want is related to Yeesha and the D'ni, not the politics and business deals of Cate and the DRC.

Yes, my objectivity has now been tested to its limits, and wins out... Okay. I agree.

If I could point to one of my DRC forum posts saying the same thing, I would, but I can't, because... You know... Cyan's outrageous hostage situation which offends me to the core. But that's not why I'm here right now. Moleculor's edited afterthought is why I'm here:

If there were a DRC/Cate storyline I'd be interested in... Well, let me explain it this way...

Did you ever go to a Murder Mystery Dinner Theater where the audience participates in the show? It's fun. It's mysterious. And if I have to be blatant, the root word of "mysterious" is? (Pause for the sink-in effect)... Very good! And audeince members actually get to be principal characters of the show, including the murderer.

Now, did you ever go to an Office Politics Dinner Theater? Neither have I. It's not fun. <cue crickets> We just get to watch other people act like we do at work every day.

A mystery is more in the spirit of what Cyan is known for - a storyline puzzle in which to participate and figure out clues by finding things in the game along the way. There's nothing to figure out with politics except how to grok Norma Rae. Just rant and complain and watch people manufacture divisions. I can watch TV for that. Give me something special that can only be found in a fantasy theater like Uru. My first recommendation is to murder Cate Alexander in the storyline and let's go find out whodunnit. As soon as possible.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:14 am 
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Current storylines:
* Loss of forums - Given there was no moderation outside of spam, I'm not sorry to see these go.
* Cate introduced herself - She's yet to make a decision I disagree with. Although I think the DRC should have warned via KI that all of the markers couldn't be found.
* Loss of liaisons - Given how ineffective they were (not their fault) it seems pointless to get new ones at this time.
* Sharper might be returning - Well I'm not fond of Sharper, but I'm willing to give anyone a second chance.
* Bahro scream - Well I tried getting the DRC to look in on Esher but they'd already done so. I don't see how else we can pursue this story branch.

So yeah, I don't see how we're suppose to manipulate or react to any of these story threads.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:29 am 
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macnbc wrote:
Where's the problem?

The problem for me is that the Cate/DRC/explorer conflict (and the '03 Sharper conflict it's modeled after) is generic. It could happen in any story, in any fictional business endeavor, to any group of people. It's conflict for the sake of conflict. It’s repetitive. It's not compelling because the story thread doesn't loop back to and affect the main premise: the discovery of an ancient civilization. There's no connection with the mystery of the overarching world of the game (the thing that attracted us to Uru in the first place, remember?). In story terms, it doesn’t resonate with anything but itself. And to my way of thinking, manipulating an already notoriously argumentative audience-community into arguing with fictional characters (and with each other) is creatively a cheap shot. Story ethic aside, I just don’t think it’s very creative compared to the ideas that have thrilled me in the past from the storytellers at Cyan -- people who I’ve called "“the classic Disney studio of the game genre." But that's just me. You may be satisfied with it, and welcome. However, haranguing others who aren't satisfied with it that they should be, or that if they aren't it's up to them to fix it, is futile. Still, if doing the writers' work with no pencil is your idea of fun, by all means go for it. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:42 am 
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I'm impressed you guys had to be told to... you know... do stuff. Maybe that's why I've been so hated. I've been trying to do stuff since Dec of last year.

/shrug

Edit. That comes off as arrogant doesn't it. I'm sorry. :?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:50 am 
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Not so much; the constraints on actions in the game-world Uru makes it hard for people to be truly creative. The only way to get people mobilized will be through old fashioned politicking (in its new, text-based incarnation, anyway).

I think that some of us should make a point of ignoring the Cate/DRC spat, possibly let them settle it without our meddling. I don't feel that I have enough information anymore to condemn or support one side or the other, and as others have said this is not the most engaging activity one could participate in, anyway.

More agreement with John Lynch (I independently tried to raise a fuss about Escher myself, but as that was mostly around here that ended up being futile, if not in downright bad taste) and tkwiggins. Although I do wonder how compelling Yeesha vs. D'ni would be - and it would certainly be no more pleasant.

You know, we were told we would be helping rebuild D'ni - not that we'd be foot soldiers in a gang affair.

It would be great if this all ended by the 15th. One day of this was enough for me - more than so.


Last edited by Ed Oscuro on Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:52 am 
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macnbc wrote:
I can't believe some of the things I see people saying in this thread.

You say you have nothing to do. So GD says that's because the story is waiting for the players to DO something. So you say you don't know what to do. People suggest things to do. You bash that.

Seriously people, do you even WANT to play Uru?


Ah, but I'm already doing the things to affect the storyline that I want to do.

For example, I'm not sitting-at the DRC. "Good job, DRC! Keep doing what you're doing! *thumbs up*"

Do I care about the loss of the IC forums? No, not really. Hence my lack of sitting-at the DRC as well. Or Cate. Or whomever.

Do I want Gahreesen expanded? Yes.
Do I want Teledahn expanded? Yes.
Do I want more ages? Yes.
Do I want to see more of the D'ni? Yes.

Is the DRC doing those things? Yes.

Hence my lack of sitting-at them.

I -suppose- the massive Relto sit-at Yeesha event might be an interesting idea, but I really -do- kinda have better things to do than sit all day. It might be fun for, oh, ten minutes or so. Maybe five, actually. Longer if I alt-tab and play solitare. But is sitting on an island in the clouds really going to get Yeesha to sit up and notice? Heck, is Cyan even going to notice? It's the second most private place an age can get. Will they see? I doubt it. And if I have to use the forums to create IC changes, then I might as well spend 1/10th the time submitting a feature request and then go play something else.

I'll be honest and horribly blasphemous here: I pay my money (or try to, not sure if GT has started taking it yet or not) for entertainment. Sitting-at someone (which so far seems to be the only solution beyond a parade) isn't exactly entertainment. And neither is watching office politics. I can always just go play WoW or work on prepping for my D&D campaign instead.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:56 am 
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Ed Oscuro wrote:
Not so much; the constraints on actions in the game-world Uru makes it hard for people to be truly creative.

I don't see that as being true at all. I think that... and I have a bias here... people try to RP up crazy ideas that can't work in the game... But there's so much we're capable of doing just as IC people.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:04 am 
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Moleculor, it sounds like you're on our side, really. The message holds more import for folks who think it is absolutely essential that they do this...politicking. Anyhow, if you have better ideas for what we should do, by all means, let us know! Anything but "Cate Cate Cate DRC" all day long will be an improvement.

Ragdrazi wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:
Not so much; the constraints on actions in the game-world Uru makes it hard for people to be truly creative.

I don't see that as being true at all. I think that... and I have a bias here... people try to RP up crazy ideas that can't work in the game... But there's so much we're capable of doing just as IC people.

I said hard, not impossible. Look at the people resorting to using "IC" and "OOC" tags. Look at the original promises given - "help rebuild Uru" - and look at what's going on now. The situation and many of the people are acting in a highly artificial manner - perhaps necessarily so, but it highlights the fact that people aren't familiar with the situation.

There are always ways to get things done subtly, and I expect that people will find them - but for most people it will be difficult, and these unfortunate matters are being waved under our noses instead of more compelling issues to pursue. Hence the evergreen phenomenon of Counter-Strike: Give me a gun and a bomb to defuse, and then all will be well, right?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:07 am 
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Ed Oscuro wrote:
I think that some of us should make a point of ignoring the Cate/DRC spat, possibly let them settle it without our meddling. I don't feel that I have enough information anymore to condemn or support one side or the other, and as others have said this is not the most engaging activity one could participate in, anyway.

Hey, don't get me wrong, Cate/DRC spats are fine. Cate/Explorer or DRC/Explorer or Sharper/Fioca/Platt Tag Team Smackdowns are fine... but the conflict has to come from the personal motivations of the characters (their conscious wants and unconscious needs); and must connect with and have at least some minimal stake in the overarching story of the D'ni world. We need to intuitively feel the story gears mesh when Character A's personality drives Characters B, C... [n] to Action X that could eventually affect the whole shebang from Bevin to Bahro. With it, the conflict is compelling. Without it, it's generic -- or worse, suitable for another story venue altogether.


Last edited by tkwiggins on Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:08 am 
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What time did Greydragon come in? I'm afraid I went to bed too early yesterday.

I find this quite impressive:

Quote:
(02/07 00:31:22) Greydragon: Do we have an over arching story for the next 5 years?
(02/07 00:31:24) Greydragon: yes
(02/07 00:31:37) Greydragon: Do we have a smaller story for a year
(02/07 00:31:40) Greydragon: yes


Am I the only person here who actually likes Cate?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:14 am 
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tkwiggins wrote:
... but the conflict has to come from the personal motivations of the characters (their conscious wants and unconscious needs);

I think we have about as much chance of probing Cate's unconscious as we do one a Keanulit from Eder Kemo.

That said, it's worth asking if more won't be made public later. This spat may only seem shallow because we're viewing its initial stages.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:30 am 
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The problem as I see it, like some have said already, is that the over-arching story premise, both the original "actually come down and restore D'ni" and the new "bahro now free, uh-oh" and "destruction is coming", has not come to life. All we have heard from Yeesha is from the intro, where she rambles in a more obscure way than usual, and her messages from ABM. We know nothing of what she wants, or what is happening. We don't know what the bahro are doing, or even the rough details of their original imprisonment. But most of all, we have not had any contact with anyone from D'ni, except for Yeesha and Esher. The story seems to be there, on the horizon, so we wait... but... nothing is happening.

I mean, Cyan, do anything, absolutely anything. Stephen King suggested in his book On Writing that if your story slowed down and you were coming into one of those writing blocks where you don't know what to write, do anything. Especially something dramatic. Drop a bomb on your characters and see how they react. Do something that kicks the story to life. Something external.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:38 am 
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Ed Oscuro wrote:
I think we have about as much chance of probing Cate's unconscious as we do one a Keanulit from Eder Kemo.

PHWAHHH! ROFL! It's a late evening with much coffee, a mouthful of which just landed on my shirt. :lol:

Ed Oscuro wrote:
That said, it's worth asking if more won't be made public later. This spat may only seem shallow because we're viewing its initial stages.

Makes sense to me. And as others have said, the issue of the zapped DRC forum's OOC threads could be laid to rest with a word from management that the threads are safely archived and will appear somwhere else. (Who was it that had the line to Cyan, "Only you can prevent forum fires"....?) :)


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