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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:49 pm 
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As I said above, I think we need a Newsroom Bevin staffed with reporters.

Also, I don't like the idea of being dependent on forums, websites, blogs, and hundreds of threads to keep up with this game. This is a visual, interactive medium...it's LIVE. Ultimately I agree that the explorers should take over and do the best they can with what they've got ... and do it online in the game.

:)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:52 pm 
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That is great if you can spend a lot of time online in the game. I cannot. I depend on the forums for news of occurances and upcoming events. For me the forums are an extension of the cavern.

I add, IMO, I see little real functional difference between a chat that is captured in a log and a chat that occures here on the forums. I don't see why it has to be either/or and cannot be, and. I would suspect that the largest number of players do depend on forums for information to provide a valued supplement to the time they cannot be in cavern and can only visit a forum, which I suspect is a majority of players and how they use the time slots in their day. JMO.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:56 pm 
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Judging by the number who post in the forums, I'd say a minority use the forums, and a smaller number learn from them.

No one is saying ban the forums, geesh. But don't make them a requirement. Most of the time I find it crushingly tedious to read these threads. Most of the people here are writers, not readers.

This thread and the many like it are attempting to be constructive by solving one of the greatest needs of this game: dissemination of information and news. What we have is not good enough or effective.

Well, I'm not the guy to organize a news team and make sure the current events get posted anywhere, so I should probably just drop out of this conversation about now. I've made my suggestions based on what I see and what I hear.

But everytime I hear someone who does come to these boards say "I'm bored," I feel bad in a way because I know there is a solution. Boredom is relative to how much an explorer does and what s/he knows. The more you know, the more you do, and the less you are bored.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:09 pm 
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I would personally say not to base an opinion on the amount of people who post, there are alot of people who read but do not post, the same goes for any forum. DJC forums has people dropping by, but no one posts (unless its myself or TCT/Mysterium folk posting a annoucement)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:33 pm 
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Uru is an interactive medium, but like any medium, it has strong and weak points. It's very good for small groups having real-time conversations. It's not very good for making announcements. It's poor for having long-term, archived discussions and for (players) keeping records of past events.

I like the idea of a "News Bevin" which posts announcements. But if you want to read chat logs, currently, a web forum or dedicated web page is the only practical option.

And, as I've said, a great deal of Uru activity takes place outside the client interface. This has always been true. You don't have to take part, but you shouldn't resent it for existing.

(I saw a new avatar run past last night with the name "Uru Action News", so I suspect someone else is thinking along the announcement line. Unless it was one of you. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:49 pm 
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Criticism of the status quo isn't voicing resentment of the status quo. And as far as this game always extending beyond the in-game experience ... all games do this, by choice not by necessity. I feel we have a need. Maybe I'm wrong in this.

The stakes seem higher here than ever...money and subscriptions are involved. We want to keep people here for our own survival. Someone here is worried about people leaving. Others are telling the minority of posters and lurkers to go somewhere else for game story and information. It is very confusing--especially if you're already "bored."

Heck most of the young players here don't read anything. The most un-read things in our culture are instruction manuals.

Nice to see the URU Action News on the prowl, lol. Maybe he could do some podcast news reports we could download.


Edit: I will say that there is a different dynamic here than I've ever seen or felt with any of URU's incarnations before.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:54 pm 
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For anyone wanting a sneak peak at Negilahn, be sure and drop by Stephen Martinere's website and have a look at the concept art. Spoiler warning applies of course. :lol:

Link:

http://www.martiniere.com/games.htm


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:55 pm 
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Nobody's mentioned this yet, but does anyone else find it interesting that Kodama has come back to sil_oh_wet's Bevin twice now to examine the Yeesha appearance? Maybe that's a story I smell brewing...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:59 pm 
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I agree aaronius, twice in same hood, both times "just looking around"... maybe we have to ask him the right questions about him "looking around".
He doesnt seem to be very open about this... but if we ask just the right question, a tricky one, maybe he'll open up.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:25 pm 
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Romer Openfield wrote:
No one is saying ban the forums, geesh. But don't make them a requirement. Most of the time I find it crushingly tedious to read these threads.


I depend on the forums, too. Not by choice, but because it's the closest I can get to the Cavern most of the time. And at least the info IS there for the finding. At least you get a response when you ask a question.

But tedious, yes. Sometimes.

Like a lot of people I'm always wishing for ways to find things out in-game when I do get a chance to be there. Unfortunately, asking people is unproductive more often than not. Most people I encounter either don't know what I'm talking about or are goofing around and couldn't care less or they're in a private discussion with someone. The GoG people will answer specific concrete questions and respond to specific requests, but they do not get into conversations; it's not their job. I find myself longing for a good, old fashioned bulletin board. Or the right-hand imager could be used. Some of this stuff is more important than heek scores, for pete's sake. :roll: OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.

Romer Openfield wrote:
But every time I hear someone who does come to these boards say "I'm bored," I feel bad in a way because I know there is a solution. Boredom is relative to how much an explorer does and what s/he knows. The more you know, the more you do, and the less you are bored.


Amen!

Is there a Discussion Bevin? Someplace where conversation gets more in-depth than hello-goodbye chit-chat, quick Q&A and "lol"? Someplace where people can talk about things like the Yeesha appearance or a coming age or whatever in complete sentences or even paragraphs? That would keep me un-bored for a long time!

But perhaps the forums are a better place for that kind of thing?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:43 pm 
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aaronius wrote:
Nobody's mentioned this yet, but does anyone else find it interesting that Kodama has come back to sil_oh_wet's Bevin twice now to examine the Yeesha appearance? Maybe that's a story I smell brewing...


ireenquench wrote:
I agree aaronius, twice in same hood, both times "just looking around"... maybe we have to ask him the right questions about him "looking around".
He doesnt seem to be very open about this... but if we ask just the right question, a tricky one, maybe he'll open up.


I'll third this. Yes aaronius, I also find it interesting, very. I think this is a significant development. On the order of what Ireen is mentioning, how do we, how can we, followup?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:48 pm 
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Different points I'd like to make--

(1) Note that I did ask Dr. K about the Yeesha sighting and he said that that was the reason he was there. (I'm surprised no one else thought to ask. I suspect they were too taken by surprise or, as most seem to be, much more interested in new things opening up.) I don't know how much he could have learned regarding the Yeesha sighting just by walking around. If he'd stayed 15 seconds longer, I would have volunteered myself as a witness to her sighting.

(2) At this point, the best method of getting word of what he said to others is through the forums. Immediately after Dr. K left, I asked if someone had recorded a chat log. Sumatria replied that she had and immediately took steps to post it.

(3) To draw a parallel from real life, if we meet an important personality on the street we are unlikely to have the means to record their conversation with us. Telling others about our conversations with someone is usually limited to just passing the word through conversation, e-mail and the like, without benefit of a transcript. We have an advantage in MOUL in that we all have the tools to record a faithful transcript to share. (A RL reporter, on the other hand, might have a voice or video recorder.)

(4) We don't have news broadcasts or newspapers in MOUL, unfortunately. It would be nice to have an IC way of distributing such information to all interested. Maybe suggestions in this regard should be made to the Suggestions forum. (It should be set up so that there could be multiple independent news-gathering organizations.)

(5) Don't expect conversation transcripts to be put on the DRC web site. There is no organization I know of that records the conversations of their personnel with the general public and then posts them on the web. To do so would violate the IC character of the DRC site.

(6) As has been said, a great number of people read the boards but never post on them.


Last edited by Lobo on Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:11 pm 
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Lobo wrote:
(5) As has been said, a great number of people read the boards but never post on them.


I agree. A minority, the more vocal, actually post on a forum. By the number of folks who have registered on this forum, 8000+, a much, much, larger number register but do not post. I suspect beyond the number of individuals registered on the forum, there is also a substantial number who guest visit.

For instance, I just checked before this post. There is/was 20 registered individuals logged into this forum. There are 4 hidden and there are 27 guests, and yes, some of those guests may be registered and simply have chosen not to log in or have not completed the login process.

It may be frustrating to some, it may be tiresome to some, it may not be the most IC to some, but there is a substantial amount of useful information being gleaned from this and other URU related forums, for many. Spread the news IC, spread the news on the forums, it does not have to be an "or" decision and by doing both, and I think it must include the forums; the greatest exposure will be achieved. For me, finding information on the forums when I cannot be in the cavern keeps the game in play outside the IC online portion.

As far as having to scour and review several forums for all the little tidbits of what is going on, I have often had to do similar within the game/IC to solve a puzzle or figure out how to progress, so to me, it is just an extension of the game, and extension of the IC experience beyond the cavern walls, so to speak.

I think the most information will be disseminated on the forum due to the ability to access it easily when a player cannot be online in the game. I know I certainly do. I have paid for a full year. I perhaps only get to be IC less then 3 hours a week at the moment and when I go in, I only access URU, no other GameTap offering. The rest of the time I am utilizing this forum and others to stay in ... "contact".


Last edited by RW. on Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:12 pm 
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Kerryth wrote:
Is there a Discussion Bevin? Someplace where conversation gets more in-depth than hello-goodbye chit-chat, quick Q&A and "lol"? Someplace where people can talk about things like the Yeesha appearance or a coming age or whatever in complete sentences or even paragraphs? That would keep me un-bored for a long time!


I would love something like this and would join it in a heartbeat.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:17 pm 
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I wonder if the online public forum is here -- and its form has lasted so long -- through a process of natural selection. I suspect that as disorganized as the forum is for information distribution and access, other venues, in-game or out, are unlikely to replace it as the prime go-to place for information. The reason may be less the venues themselves and more the difficulty faced by volunteer player organizations in gathering and distributing sufficient, compelling content to compete with the forum.

Online Uru newspapers and newsletters have been published in the past. While well designed and edited, they never became go-to information centers for players. A weekly or even daily newsletter managed and staffed by volunteers can't compete with the immediacy of a public forum for covering breaking in-game events and airing controversial issues. The challenge is even greater for audio-video media, with its greater labor requirement and longer lead time.

In-game hood imagers are currently impractical as news distribution and reading devices. For writers, they're limited in the amount of text each screen-page can hold. Replacing old pages with new is unwieldy. For readers, the pages are not controllable. One must wait for the old pages to cycle through while watching for any new content. The screens switch at a faster rate than a new page can be read, forcing one to wait for a full cycle to re-read it.

KI mail, while more controllable, is still limited in scope and usability.

In-game town criers are labor intensive, non-mass distribution, and vulnerable to misinformation or even fraud.

Even if imagers were made usable, KI functions updated, and town criers volunteered by the hundreds, the question remains of who would organize and manage their efforts.

What will happen when Uru’s population grows to the ten of thousands? The hundreds of thousands? What will be the go-to centers of information? Who will gather, write, edit and format the content? Who will make the decisions on what information is distributed and what is not? Who will organize where it is distributed and in what time frame? I suspect that, then as now, it will be primarily the readers themselves -- in forums.

The forums are an organizational mess. Their content is categorized but not formatted, moderated but not edited. The content of in-game media will be as disorganized as the forums unless it is formatted and edited -- functions which all-volunteer player groups, where no one is in charge and the labor pool constantly fluctuates, by their nature find difficult to fulfill on a regular schedule, in large amounts and over the long run.

For all their downsides, the forums are a powerful attractant. They spill over with content. They are constantly available. They never miss an issue or show up late. They promise something new hour to hour, sometimes moment to moment. Their accessibility, immediacy, relevance and controversy make them enormously compelling.

Most compelling of all, the forums are an organic creation of, expression of and mirror of the player community -- an amorphous, constantly changing population who refuse to submit to organization or consensus.


Last edited by tkwiggins on Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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