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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:16 am 
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Last edited by *Sydney Austin* on Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:20 am 
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Sydney/Vicki Austin: Do the Uru community a favor and GET LOST.


Uncalled for. There is no need for ANYONE to leave. So get over yourself if you feel the need to tell a community member to leave the game. We cannot afford losing anyone else over this.

As for Sydney, I have posted this before, and I will do so here......

Quote:
Sydney, it's time this ended. You may think you are doing something good by getting people to react, but in essence the only thing you are accomplishing is making people uncomfortable. fiery abyss, no one could have a straight conversation with Cate today without you constantly interupting with your storyline. It is causing people to react to you harshly. No one wants you to get lost. But your storyline is abrasive and hostile, and even the Cyan actor has pointed out that WE hate it.

Please read this, this was a review of the original Live, before cancellation:

[spoiler]
Quote:
Improv is Hard
Second point: interactive drama means improvisation, and improv is hard.
A couple of days ago, I ran into a guy named Vormaen in one of the popular Uru neighborhoods. He was, well, preaching to the crowd. His viewpoint was (interestingly) not aligned with either Sharper or the DRC. He seemed to approve of Sharper's vision of a new D'ni world, but not of the dissension that Sharper was fomenting. (Fair enough.)

I don't know whether this Vormaen is a Cyan actor, a player working with Cyan in the storyline effort, or just a player who is enthusiastic about his own chosen role. In this context, that doesn't matter. The interesting aspect is, he wasn't really responsive to what his audience was saying -- and there were a bunch of us replying to him.

Several players expressed the opinion (quite common among Uru players, I estimate) that we don't know enough yet. Neither Sharper nor Watson (nor even Henderson) has given a specific plan for the restoration of D'ni. None of the factions are talking details; they all seem to be concealing their true motives. Nobody inspires trust: the DRC kidnapped a guy, Sharper likes to incite mobs, Yeesha may just be nuts. So a lot of players are holding off, and waiting to see how events develop.

Vormaen didn't seem to accept this. When someone expressed reticence, Vormaen would respond with a generality; he'd say the speaker "didn't understand yet". Or he expressed sorrow that the speaker was under the DRC's sway. "True knowledge comes from within"; "those who are called will sense the truth"; and so on.

(I apologize, by the way, if I'm misrepresenting Vormaen's argument. I failed (again) to log the chat session, so I'm working from memory here. I think I've described the dynamic accurately, though.)

When Vormaen left, my comment was "I don't think he heard a word any of us said." Another player noted, out of character, that we didn't fit into his script.

Which is an excellent point. Vormaen was coming off as, well, as a religious fanatic: not absorbing anything which didn't fit into his worldview. Or, equally: as an actor with a script that didn't include other people. If your task is to wander through the audience and represent a point of view, it's hard to get into a real discussion. How do you engage in an argument when your character is pre-defined as having a particular belief?

Truly interactive drama would have to feature characters who are responsive to members of the audience. Of course, that's hard. (I'm certainly not slamming Cyan for doing it imperfectly. I have no idea how to do it.)

Now, maybe I'm setting up an impossible standard. Single-player adventure gaming has a long tradition of constraining the player to a well-defined storyline -- while still providing the sensation of freedom. (Or, I should say, providing true freedom of action -- but at a lower level, which never seriously derails the storyline.) Perhaps that's the road for on-line multiplayer drama. If so, the arsenal of technique has yet to be developed.

I think I'd better leave that topic for another essay. Possibly an essay written by someone else who knows anything about theater.


[/spoiler]

Yeah, I was guilty of the same garbage, so long ago. You are acting out and ignoring everything coming back. You have no direction, no facts, and no play. Acting like anything but yourself brings nothing but misery. Take it from someone who knows. If you are not going to even roll with the ball Cyan JUST handed to you, then don't roll at all. It's time to end this. Cyan seems to not like it, the Explorers definitely do not like it, it's time to play things quietly.


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http://www.eblong.com/zarf/uru/rj/rev-2.html

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:27 am 
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tkwiggins wrote:
Bingo. But what the response should be, truly has me stumped.


To stretch the metaphor a little bit, we have had a Jerry Springer-esque storyline going on. The issue, I think, is that the response from a lot of people has not just been to watch the spectacle, but to rush the stage with chairs and drag the ensuing fight into the next set. It's like that scene from the end of Blazing Saddles.

This is the wrong reaction to the ADM storyline, in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:41 am 
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Calam wrote:
Getting angry that Sydney Austin is causing contention in the community is ok.

Getting angry because you think her actions are jeaprodizing Uru Live, and thus shooting her down, is not ok.

If Uru Live is too fragile to support fan-base division, then it's going to die anyway...


I would disagree with this one point. When something is building, growing, and trying to reach a point of stability, then extreme conflict is a risk, and can jeapordize the growth of the game.

There are ways to support fan-based division, without using actively agressive and divisive tactics. The Sydney player made a concious decision to fill the Cyan-left story void, and made the desicion to fill that void with a controversial, very agressive, very divisive character and movement. There were other options she could have chosen, that could have made things happen, without causing people to be actively driven away.

The fact that there is a void is NOT her fault, nor is it her job, or any of our jobs, to fill that void. However, when we do volunteer to fill that role, by creating a character, giving them a history and motivation, building a personality for them, and deciding how they will present themselves to the community... then it IS our job to gauge how that personality will be received, what kind of impact it will have on the people and the enviroment.

In that aspect, I feel that Sydney's PLAYER has made some poor choices.

But I think the community has made poor choices, too. How much fuel has been poured on this fire? How many people have made being anti-ADM a focus? How many non-confrontational personalities have we overlooked? How many were shot down in the early months of the game for daring to be IC?

How many people have come in cavern being IC with a story of their own to tell, and been ignored, or ridiculed? Brushed off with 'it's just a game' from some players, or dismissed for 'trying to do Cyan's job' by others?

Yes, the fault for the void in story lies with Cyan... but Sydney's player had the courage to step up and try and make things happen. Where were the rest of us?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:09 am 
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Yes, the fault for the void in story lies with Cyan... but Sydney's player had the courage to step up and try and make things happen. Where were the rest of us?


Making things happen in the multitude of guilds and organizations around.

Oh, that was rhetorical. My bad. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:32 am 
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I don't see the community as some fragile, wholely unified group of virtual pizza party enthusiasts. I believe it's far more dynamic than that. As a result, I think this whole ADM thing is exactly what we need, though not for the reasons ADM would cite.

Coming into MOUL we have a bunch of different people, some well known, some not, some veterans and some new. For some reason, we have this weird idea that the community is still 'unified', and that anybody doing anything is in fact fracturing this, uhm, united community. There's a huge amount of history there that some have experienced and some have not. As a result, people have different ideas about what the game is.

So what does this ADM plot do? Well, the plot itself does nothing at all. It's garbage. The trick is to not look directly at the ADM; you have to look at what's going on around them. There are other things in play here.

People can get engaged in something that's happening now, rather than years ago. It's instantly accessible, and somehow it's inane in such a way that it drags people right into the fray. Secondly, it's about what the players are doing, not what Cyan's doing; everybody can have an opinion that isn't going to be stepped on by canon, because Cyan isn't laying any canon down on this stuff. We're allowed to have a host of different opinions about both the story itself and the things happening around it, and none of them can really be proven right or wrong.

So people get to poke their heads out and have a good look around, and see which people they like and which people they don't; I suspect many new networks of players have formed and will form as a result of this stuff. So I think this is a formative process, not a destructive one. How can it possibly be destructive? What is it destroying? What did we have that could be destroyed in the first place? None of the old groups are breaking apart over this. If anything, they're being polarized together. There may be a few players threatening to leave the game, but let's face it, there are always people threatening to leave the game.


Furthermore, I think this is just about the only sort of thing that would have worked under the old status quo. Lots of people are aware of the way the more vocal components of the community tend to react to player events; we had an environment where 'polite' action would be softly poked to the ground. But this ADM thing defies the old standard radically; the usual means of 'poking' events to death (the canon problem, for example, ensures that just about everything everyone does is not canon) are completely useless against something that defies all logic. The ADM is impervious to reason; it is immune to it. It is what evolves in an environment where all reason can be discounted; when everything else fails, this stuff is going to stick. It was bound to happen eventually.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:27 pm 
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It's nice to see more and more posters in these threads who "get it" -- who understand what's really going on and that this IS part of the Cyan-driven storyline right now. Blade, tkwiggins, Kolian, and many others.

It's also interesting to see that most of those who "get it" don't much care for what they're getting, though many are willing to shrug their shoulders and go with it because it's the only game in town at the moment. Few are enthusiastic supporters of the way it's playing out. I, myself, haven't quite made up my mind. This kind of very flexible improv story is very new to many of us, and it will take time to get used to something other than the well-defined paths of standalone games like MYST.

The more people who "get it", the less likely it is to spill over into OOC relationships, as I see it. We're starting to be able to hold more dispassionate discussions of the quality of the story. Thank goodness.

@Kolian: You may be right that this is the only thing that can work under the circumstances. Some cite the two logs with Cate from yesterday and point to how pleasant the second one was, and how comfortable such interactions make them feel. But, playing nice and asking only softball questions does not advance the story one bit. Sydney's antics at least teased out some useful info about DRC attitudes and some grudging admissions.

@Sydney: My advice would be to NOT post any more logs like the one you posted yesterday. I imagine it must get tiresome to play one of the characters that everyone loves to hate, and I understand it must have been frustrating to have so many people not seem to realize what was going on behind the scenes. You proved your point with the log you posted, which was still close to OOC despite your editing. However, I think it's a shame that it became necessary to do so. Posting more of the same would be like handing out copies of the stage directions to people trying to immerse themselves in a play. I think we need to learn to just start flowing with what we see without examining the underpinnings at every turn. Just MHO.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:37 pm 
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Calam wrote:
THE ANTI-DRC MOVEMENT IS NOT A STORYLINE. A storyline has a plot, events, conflict, resolution, characters, a story-arc, etc... Now, unless Vicki/Sydney can come to us with evidence that this exists, the ADM isn't a story. It's an occurence. A tantrum in a public market, as tkwiggins put it. Unless the tantrum is part of some deep plot in a storyline, it's just a tantrum. This whole ADM thing is revolving around a series of complaints, threats, and rallies. That isn't a storyline. Following the ADM story is like reading a long list of complaints on both sides. That's not "fun". It doesn't alleviate "boredom", and it sure as heck doesn't boost Uru Live's numbers. She overestimates her influence. Anti-DRC rallies aren't a story. Unless those can be chained together for a purpose, a plot, a story, it's all just spew.


Sadly this isn't the case and more and more people are seeing the truth that his was in fact a Cyan sanctioned, Cyan backed storyline movement. What people need to ask is why Cyan is foster discontent and turmoil when the majority of the explorers just want to live in peace and harmony.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:04 pm 
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Because peace and quiet makes for very boring reading... :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:17 pm 
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There are any number of ways the game makers could make the story exciting without turning it into a junior high school version of the Jerry Springer show.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:24 pm 
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How is this cyan sanctioned anymore? Those last chat logs from Cate seemed to take a lot of the wind out of the ADM's sails. It seems that Cyan stepped in to take back the story because it wasn't going the way they intended.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:24 pm 
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There are any number of ways the game makers could make the game exciting without turning it into a junior-high version of the Jerry Springer show.


I'd start throwing chairs, but my arms don't work. I'll just flip a cone at you from across the room. :D

Seriously though, the general cries of derision from the populous isn't 'OMG! THEY'RE NOT CYAN AND THEY'RE MAKING WAVES! BURN THE HERETICS!', but more along the lines of 'Did Sydney just threaten the fiscal backer for the Restoration?'

If I was Cate, I'd genuinely get peevish about it and start looking at better ways to invest my money in ways that don't garner me small-fisted rants of hate from people who have zero idea what I'm actually doing for them.

If she does, CONGRADULATIONS, ADRCM. YOU HAVE JUST ELIMINATED THE DRC. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Here's your trowel and mortar, I expect the city to be fixed by the time I log in again, otherwise I might be concerned that you're hiding information as to what you're actually doing!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:43 pm 
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Overdrive wrote:
How is this cyan sanctioned anymore? Those last chat logs from Cate seemed to take a lot of the wind out of the ADM's sails. It seems that Cyan stepped in to take back the story because it wasn't going the way they intended.

If it had gone "the way Cyan intended", what would have happened? Do you think they would have had the DRC cave in to ADM bluster the very first moment one of them appeared in Cavern for the first time in a month? Gee what a great story that would be. Or would that character have shown hostility to the ADM demands, just as Cate did, as part of the storyline? It seems very off base to say that Cate's appearance is "Cyan stepping in" and telling the ADM to knock it off.

If there is conflict being portrayed between the DRC and the explorers, I would certainly expect the DRC to get in some shots on their side, just as Cate did. We also know that there is disagreement within the ranks of the DRC, and we haven't spoken to any of the other members yet. It could very well be that, while Cate is returning Sydney's taunts, other members of the DRC (probably Engberg or Sutherland) are working against her behind the scenes and will step forward on the explorer side somehow.

Who among us can authoritatively speak of what Cyan's intentions are, without a clear OOC statement from a Cyantist? All we know is that one of their characters stirred the pot and fed some lines to Sydney. Cate reacted to those lines in a predictable fashion.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:58 pm 
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Another view on this is that with the way the community and Cate handled Sydney and the ADM, no one will again be tempted to forcibly get answers from the DRC. The community on the whole openly vilified Sydney and Cate has shown that the DRC will only give the explorers information when they feel like it. How this may have gone if the ADM had garnered enough support is beyond me, but now we are at the mercy of the DRC's whim to provide information to the community.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:23 pm 
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Thanakar wrote:
now we are at the mercy of the DRC's whim to provide information to the community.

This is a bit of ironic IC/OOC confusion. As the rationalizers are fond of pointing out, Cyan will create a way to deliver or withhold the information it chooses no matter what happens with the DRC or any other story mechanism.

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