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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:27 pm 
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How this may have gone if the ADM had garnered enough support is beyond me, but now we are at the mercy of the DRC's whim to provide information to the community.


Admittedly, you could talk to the ResEngs or file requests on the DRC Forums, like the ResEngs usually state we should do.

I suddenly have the image of Bahro in brown shorts dropping off texts at our Reltos. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:36 pm 
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i think the kind of sad thing here is the adm thing might've worked if it was handled better ala the great tree and it wasn't a rehash. one of the big problems was the fact that it all seemed really forced from the adm's side of it, especially the reasons why they were "anti-drc". first it was the drc hiding stuff. then it was "oh the poor animals". then it was something else. and finally it devolved into "why do you want to kill explorers, cate?" people found it more of an irritant than anything interesting, and it got so you couldn't hardly be in a public space without someone coming in and trying to stir it up. if you're going to do story in this community, you'd really better know what you're on about and have a thick skin. if any good came out of this at all, i hope it's that people interested in doing story learned what not to do.

oh, and we can really do without the telling people to leave the game stuff. thats just uncalled for.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:44 pm 
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BrettM wrote:
If it had gone "the way Cyan intended", what would have happened? Do you think they would have had the DRC cave in to ADM bluster the very first moment one of them appeared in Cavern for the first time in a month? Gee what a great story that would be. Or would that character have shown hostility to the ADM demands, just as Cate did, as part of the storyline? It seems very off base to say that Cate's appearance is "Cyan stepping in" and telling the ADM to knock it off.

If there is conflict being portrayed between the DRC and the explorers, I would certainly expect the DRC to get in some shots on their side, just as Cate did. We also know that there is disagreement within the ranks of the DRC, and we haven't spoken to any of the other members yet. It could very well be that, while Cate is returning Sydney's taunts, other members of the DRC (probably Engberg or Sutherland) are working against her behind the scenes and will step forward on the explorer side somehow.

Who among us can authoritatively speak of what Cyan's intentions are, without a clear OOC statement from a Cyantist? All we know is that one of their characters stirred the pot and fed some lines to Sydney. Cate reacted to those lines in a predictable fashion.


Cate came down to deliver information regarding Nick, and answer a few questions - probably directly in response to the appearance of Decent, and Dr. Watsons Journal. It was the ADM who decided to act first. Not the other way around. Had the ADM decided not to make the scene it did, the logs would be a little less entertaining, but we would still have the information they intended to deliver.

The fact that you think Cate's appearance was in response to the ADM is part of the storyline is exactly the same as me saying that Cate's appearance is Cyan's way of saying knock it off. And yet, you claim that no one knows what Cyan's true intentions are. There is conflict. Sure. But its OBVIOUS that Cate's reaction was instigated. And like you said, she responded predictably - to what? How is this predictable if no one knows what Cyan is thinking. She made them look like what everyone else thought. Cyan altered the direction of the story. Plain and simple. New ages. Sharper returning. Nick on probation. The ADM would probably never have been on the radar otherwise. Not to say the ADM isn't gone forever, but like I said, they certainly lost a lot of steam.

Edit: Not to mention, that Cyan felt it was within their story to remove Nick for a while. The ONLY source of information the ADM had. So while this could also be construed as a story twist, it certainly leaves the ADM hanging. No "information" no ADM screaming they "know things".


Last edited by Overdrive on Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:51 pm 
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Thanakar wrote:
Another view on this is that with the way the community and Cate handled Sydney and the ADM, no one will again be tempted to forcibly get answers from the DRC.

I see your logic, but I think the result will be different: we'll have a horde of Sydney imitators. The way the NPCs and Sydney have played each other (and continue to) is ringing the dinner bell for every quasi-troll who wants to stir the pot under the guise of IC.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:08 pm 
tkwiggins wrote:
I see your logic, but I think the result will be different: we'll have a horde of Sydney imitators. The way the NPCs and Sydney have played each other (and continue to) is ringing the dinner bell for every quasi-troll who wants to stir the pot under the guise of IC.


That isn't the way it strikes me. Playing someone that unpopular is not a comfortable thing to do. I wouldn't do it...intentionally anyway... :)

Cyan may have backed this storyline, but I don't believe they initiated it...if they had it would have been more convincing. I don't suppose we'll ever know the OOC ins and outs of it. I do think last night was Cyan putting the kybosh on it, not because it wasn't going the way they intended, but because it has proved massively unpopular with the players, as witness just about every other post in all the forums for the last few weeks.

I still think fan-created storylines are the way of the future for MOUL...but maybe Cyan will take this lesson on board and provide a little more grist for our mills in future. Or, of course, maybe they won't.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:24 pm 
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do you all want to know the truth of what happened read these logs and leave me alone.

http://www.uruobsession.com/forum/index ... 43afb1fcfb


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:32 pm 
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BrettM wrote:
It's nice to see more and more posters in these threads who "get it" -- who understand what's really going on and that this IS part of the Cyan-driven storyline right now. Blade, tkwiggins, Kolian, and many others.



Do I think Cyan helped feed this particular story beast? Heck yah. Do I think this was part of some grand, overreaching story arc that thee and me can merely guess at. Not even remotely.

Lets look at the actual points of interaction between Nick, a Cyan run character, and other explorers...

There's him looking for Heaven.
There's him talking to The Great Tree (a group he'd previously been in contact with, during the first restoration) about a possible age leak, which went nowhere.
There's him giving Jazz some historical data, and chatting up the ladies
There's him visiting various hoods talking about Neghilan and Sharper
There was the Nick/Sharper/Rils expedition.
There's his conversation(s) with Sydney.

That's it. Of that, one, maybe two of those points of intersection could be seen as Nick directly and actively trying to influence the ADM and their 'movement'.

Everything else, the catfights over Nick, the agressive stance of the ADM, the explorer reaction, and the fallout of Nick being exiled to the surface because of complaints, that was ALL explorer created and driven.

So that's something we need to look at... while we're sitting here asking "How could Cyan run this story...", the answer seems to me to be very clear. They didn't. One Cyan run character interacted with explorers, and passed out very few 'secrets' (The DRC doesn't tell us everything? This is news?). It was the people who interacted with him, and the people who came in contact with them, that chose to make it what it was.

One thing I think that is jarring to most of us who have RPGd, LARPed or a host of other acronyms that involve interactive storytelling, is that in Uru, a "GM" run character, isn't always going to be a plot device. And I think that takes some getting used to.

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Last edited by Eleri on Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:33 pm 
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*Sydney Austin* wrote:
do you all want to know the truth of what happened read these logs and leave me alone.

The explorers will leave you alone if Sydney leaves the explorers alone ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:42 pm 
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ok, that's just not nice... Sydney is being honest, no need to slap her down some more.

While I wish it hadn't come to this, with Vicki having to post her chat logs to clear the air, we can still learn a lesson from this. Now we all know to what extent the story can be manipulated - lets try and make it more constructive next time around, instead of tearing each other up over it.

Vicki, while still disagree with the way things played out, what you did to get things moving took courage and a lot of hard work. Props.

Don't give up yet, there's still some momentum. We just need to figure out what to do with it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:44 pm 
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Rils wrote:
Because peace and quiet makes for very boring reading...


Yeah, it's like saying "Why did Romeo and Juliet just run away?" The answer is "That's boring."

BrettM wrote:
It's nice to see more and more posters in these threads who "get it" -- who understand what's really going on and that this IS part of the Cyan-driven storyline right now. Blade, tkwiggins, Kolian, and many others.


Let me clarify my opinion, I think that Cyan was trying to ignite story. What Nick did with Sydney isn't that different from what Sharper did with Brian Fioca (well, except the 'dating' thing ;) ).

I think that past that point, it wasn't Cyan - it mostly was player-driven. Not just Sydney, all of us. Let me say this very bluntly - this fiasco is something we, the players, created.

I , in no way, think that RAWA is sitting in some office at Cyan, petting his white cat and saying "Yes, it's all unfolding according to plan..." They seem to have a definite element in mind - the DRC is not telling us everything (probably some important things).

I think they expected a Great Tree-style response (a style, OOC, I'm trying to start with the 'Day of Darkness' idea). I do not think they counted on the overwhelmingly negative and heated out of character response from the community. I get the impression that Cyan has a much more definite division between IC and OOC than the community does and act on that assumption, not ours.

Edit: I wanted to add and say publicly: Vicki, thanks for trying. I'm sorry it blew up on you and I'm sorry you are catching what I think is undue flak. But I appreciate your intentions.

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Last edited by BladeLakem on Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:00 pm 
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Right. What I, as a player, would like to see now, is someone (even if it is Viki in a new guise) step up and take the reins of the ADM, and see what direction they can take it in. Is the DRC hiding dangerous stuff from explorers? Is an Explorer-run restoration a good alternative to the DRC? What about demanding an Explorer Oversight Committee of the DRC? Who knows...

Look into the ADMs positive intention for the cavern and explorers (and, conversely, people looking at the DRCs positive intention for the same), and see what can come of it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:23 pm 
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Overdrive wrote:
The fact that you think Cate's appearance was in response to the ADM is part of the storyline is exactly the same as me saying that Cate's appearance is Cyan's way of saying knock it off.

Whoops. Would you mind showing me where I said Cate appeared in response to the ADM? I just reread my post most carefully, and all I said was that she responded to the ADM in character, not that she was present because of them. I was speaking of her words, not her actions. Not in the sense that, say, a fireman "responds" to a fire. And that her verbal response to Sydney's verbal attack was not a Cyan message, but a legitimate IC storyline response.

@Blade: Perhaps I should have said Cyan-initiated storyline rather than Cyan-driven. I largely agree with your comments about this fiasco being more due to us than to them. But, as I read the logs that Vicki recently posted, Nick did put some effort into dragging the ADM out of retirement for this purpose, and encouraged the generation of as much conflict as possible among the explorers (IC, of course) and between explorers and DRC. I doubt it was expected that things would get so out of hand OOC.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:28 pm 
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BladeLakem wrote:
I think they expected a Great Tree-style response (a style, OOC, I'm trying to start with the 'Day of Darkness' idea). I do not think they counted on the overwhelmingly negative and heated out of character response from the community.

BrettM wrote:
I doubt it was expected that things would get so out of hand OOC.

Please. I and others have been representing and warning of these entirely predictable consequences for over a year on the DRC forums where Cyan was listening. There's no excuse other than Cyan's own conceit.

Further:

Sydney (Vicki) was involved with the bannable offense of one (fake) DougIas Sharper, innocent victim or not.

Shellshock was involved in the bannable offense of propagating the Dereno exploit, innocently used or not.

Yet Nick, or rather his portrayor, a Cyan employee, went seeking out both these people. I find the lack of judgement disturbing. And the reward of attention for reckless behavior, or those perceived of reckless behavior, a destructive policy.

I was there for most of the DougIas incident. I was the one who reported it. And I was the one who informed Sydney of the fraud at the end in a PM as I contacted support. She did seem confused in her PM reply, so if it helps, I'll believe her when she says she was duped. Cyan should not have gone to her. Vicki did the smart thing today, and maybe the whole matter will help teach Cyan something.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:29 am 
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Though I wasnt banned for that, I was however suspended for a few days for something related. I suppose I was to make an ingame story how that event played out for nick to aprove. sounds like work. I guess I blew my chance, who's next?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:41 am 
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I have to admit I have been conflicted about this whole thing for the past few days especially. I can see both (if it can be said there are only two) sides of the issue. I have ranted about the ADM both IC and OOC but I also don't have a problem with roleplaying in game. How could I? If I feel it's not a particularly good story I can take it or leave it, *unless* said roleplaying can very easily invade others' game enjoyment. And whether intentionally or not, I have seen many things with ADM story that have the danger of ruining peoples' ingame experience: things that aren't that easy to avoid unless you want to stay in your own ages all the time. But that wouldn't be fair.

I admit though I always disliked the idea of ADM both IC and OOC, I only became very bothered when some of the tactics began to threaten and/or practice what I would call harrassment tactics.

For the record. I don't personally think anyone on ADM was deliberately trying to do something mean or subversive to other players, just try something interesting to see what happened. That doesn't make me like it any better, but I think intentions were not bad, just methods maybe. I guess it might have been ill-conceived (see Firesign's post above - that's a real good description I think) but for what it's worth I think the intentions were harmless but a line was crossed somewhere.

In further defense of Sydney (read: Vickie), I hope you don't "get lost"; I don't see a need for that. I know you may be smarting from this but I hope you stick around. And I know I personally picked apart much of ADM (and I have conflicted thoughts about the way I did that), but I never intended to take anything to a personal level. If I personally offended you or anyone else I apologize. This whole thing drew my ire indeed, and not much in this game has ever done that so much; but that doesn't mean I make it into a personal issue. I play the game for enjoyment. I hope to continue to and I hope we all can.

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