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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:34 pm 
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Edit: Added information regarding ticket submission.

---

Statement:
This is a problem that has gone on long enough. Ever since the lattice was reset last December, the Nexus has been listing all of the registered neighborhoods in D'ni as "________'s Bevin" - This is leading to a lot of confusion and the spreading belief that every neighborhood is "A Bevin" or that Bevin is the D'ni word for neighborhood. For those of us who've been following the restoration since the DRC went public in April 2002, it's well known that this just isn't true.

A Brief History:
Bevin was the first neighborhood to be restored by the DRC, and more notably, the first part of D'ni that was ever open to explorers. Here is a transcript of the speech given by Dr. Richard Watson at the opening ceremony of the Bevin neighborhood.

Quote:
Fellow Citizens of D'ni,

I realize that that salutation may sound a bit presumptuous, but this epic moment allows for some extravagance and anticipation on my part. For we find ourselves at one of those rare junctures in human history. We stand on the edge of a precipice of discovery and enlightenment, and now we take the first step off the edge.

Welcome to D'ni.

For the first time I can say those words. Up until now, visitors have been limited to those who are academically adept enough to contribute, or those who are connected enough to be invited. But soon that will change. Soon anyone who hears the call will be welcomed. Of course, at first their access will be limited, and their numbers will be controlled; but the door is opening. D'ni is beginning to wake from its long hibernation.

What I'm trying to say is that your work here has been more than simply an archeological exercise. We firmly believe that this place was meant to be inhabited; it was meant to be growing; it was meant to be alive. We are here because we've all felt that same feeling, that same calling. Even now many more are beginning to feel that calling as well. They will come, and D'ni will live once more.

To D'ni!


This is unarguably a very memorable and key moment in the history of the restoration, and should not be lost and forgotten due to what essentially comes down to a typographical error in the lattice.

Response:
Several explorers have made an effort to point out this problem to the DRC, but generally get shouted down by the hungry cries of "Who has time to remember history?! We want more ages!" - In response to this problem and the lukewarm response so far, this event is being scheduled to coincide with the next "public" visitation from the DRC. The only way we're going to save this valuable piece of our history, is if the explorers who CARE step up together to make their voices heard.

If you understand and care about perserving our history, on Saturday - September 8, 2007, at 06:00pm EST (16:00 KI Time), it is requested that all interested explorers line the great stair on Ae'gura, facing outwards at Kerath's Arch (Towards the wall, where the Neighborhoods would be situated) and ready their loudest voices and sternest pointing fingers.

At the specified time, all explorers will be requested to yell out a well formed "OBJECTION!" in the directions of the mis-named neighborhoods. With any luck, the DRC will no longer be able to ignore this growing problem!

"Objection!"ing Tools:
Example of an "Objection!"
Appropriate Theme Music
A Small Test Objection

---

Alright, this event definitely proved that we've got some numbers... and after spending some time talking with ResEng Biegalski last night, it's now clear what our next course of action must be.

For everyone who supports the restoration of this incredible point in our history, it's time for us to buckle down and start submitting tickets as a Feature Request to have the name changed back to Neighborhood!

Let's get it moving people, we've got to submit those tickets!

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The Age Linker's Guide
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Last edited by vidkid7 on Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:46 pm 
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This is my Bevin. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

*thud*

So, which Bevin is the party going to be in?

*thud*

Anyway. It's at 1 AM local time, and I have a big exam two days later, which means I probably won't be there. But I think this idea is really great; this Bevin issue really annoys me as well.

Maybe you should create a Bevin Objection's Bevin.

*runs*


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:52 pm 
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It's very frustrating that the DRC doesn't answer any questions on the Bevin issue. I think it's important as well.

Unfortunately I can't make it at that time (international...), otherwise I certainly would be there.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:55 pm 
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Sorry for the time issue... I'm trying for the time that's most likely to attract the largest group of explorers, as well as possible contact with the DRC.

Should we start planning "The International Bevin Objection"? :)

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 Post subject: Why's it a problem?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:08 pm 
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I don't quite understand why this is considered a problem?

As the Cavern population grows and more people learn more D'ni words it's inevitable that a new dialect of English will grow. And as with any other evolving language/dialect the meanings of words will change. Bevin may very well evolve to become a synonym for neighborhood. So what? Why is that a problem?

As for preserving history - you don't preserve your history by forcing your culture to be stagnant (and language is integral to culture).

I say, "embrace the change!"

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Last edited by Michael on Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:12 pm 
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Michael, I can understand your point about language evolving over time, but surely you can see the reasoning for trying to preserve a piece of data as integral as the FIRST part of D'ni that explorers were ever officially granted access to?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:14 pm 
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vidkid7 wrote:
Michael, I can understand your point about language evolving over time, but surely you can see the reasoning for trying to preserve a piece of data as integral as the FIRST part of D'ni that explorers were ever officially granted access to?


By all means preserve history in history books, museums, that sort of place. But I see no reason to try and stop language evolution.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:20 pm 
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We are discovering a different world... a different culture.

Another example:
Some aliens get lost in their UFO and they suddenly found our planet, Earth! They explore our planet, and they discover that there are "countries" everywhere. There's a country that's called the USA, one that's called the UK, and one that's called the Netherlands.
The next generation of aliens suddenly starts to call all countries "the United States of America".


Do you understand better now? Bevin is just one hood. There's Seret as well, and there's Kirel.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:30 pm 
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Erik wrote:
We are discovering a different world... a different culture.

Another example:
Some aliens get lost in their UFO and they suddenly found our planet, Earth! They explore our planet, and they discover that there are "countries" everywhere. There's a country that's called the USA, one that's called the UK, and one that's called the Netherlands.
The next generation of aliens suddenly starts to call all countries "the United States of America".


Do you understand better now? Bevin is just one hood. There's Seret as well, and there's Kirel.


The D'ni culture is dead and gone. We are building our own brand new culture in the Cavern and ages. This new culture will take bits and pieces from the D'ni culture that will be used in new ways by us. I see no problem with that. I understand the importance of preserving the original D'ni culture, but that can be done without stifling the evolution of the new culture.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:34 pm 
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I've seen Kirel. It's neat but odd.. I keep getting lost trying to turn the wrong way. Otherwise it's a nifty hood, but hardly an actual hood since it's a DRC public place. It's not even hood instanced, like say the GZ, so it's pure public like Watcher's.

I've never seen Seret apparently. I still have no clue what it looks like, no one provides pictures, and supposedly only special explorers were once able to go there. Who here has been to one, and not just heard it's different? Not me, it seems. Sure might see the 'Seret-style bee lamps' as they're called, but it's always bevin style.

That's where my annoyance is. We see bevin every time we visit a hood. We don't go around calling that yellow book on our relto shelf a link to a "Teledahn-Style Age", no, we call it Teledahn, even though it's one of many instances. The hood is too. ICly it's one of many on the outside, even though the coords are the same. OOCly it's a single hood design instanced with random objects, same as any other age. Instanced either way.

People call them bevins, sure, but it's shorthand for "bevin style neighborhoods". I just call them hoods myself, always have, regardless of the nexus (which I ignore anyways). I'm not alone in this, and people calling them bevins are legion.


Sorry vid, but you're up against language inertia here. You won't even have the very limited and small scale of luck that the bahro/vahkro language objection group had.. at least you don't see a bahro listed as one every day in the caverns, while every day you see it called a bevin, right or wrong. And given time, it becomes right, so the objection becomes purity of language and tradition.

And if you become a language 'purist' I'll be surprised. :P

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:34 pm 
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It isn't really an evolution of a new culture... the Explorers didn't come with this after all.

Everyone called the neighbourhoods just neighbourhoods. Always. Then suddenly the Nexus started displaying "Bevins". It wasn't an evolution, but an abrupt (and incorrect) change.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:37 pm 
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...and? Actually, people called them bevins before the change too. Not as many, but many. Perhaps the DRC did, and changed it? Heck, for all we know, the reason they changed is because *Cyan* calls them bevins now.

If that's the case it's now become the correct change de facto. Sorry.

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You know, I wish we would learn Atrus loved the 1812 overture, and in turn we had a copy for our relto.
That's right, a canon canen cannon!

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100% Authentic Gondar! Accept no substitutes, imitations, or knock-offs!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:38 pm 
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accually a better way of saying this is that the word bevin is the name of a hood, Not what it is.

Neighborhood is what each of those areas are. Most don't really have names. They are just named after thier creators. Which in itself is messed up.

To somewhat use erik's example. The US is the north american continent. In this example united states of america would be the name and what it is would be north american continent.

Its also kinda like the human race. We all have names given at birth, but the general name (or discription)of people is homosapien.

There are other things in the world that have a discription and a name.


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 Post subject: Re: Why's it a problem?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:43 pm 
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Michael wrote:
Bevin may very well evolve to become a synonym for neighborhood. So what? Why is that a problem?


'Kirel Bevin'.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:44 pm 
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Actually, using the current (severely wrong) convention, it'd be "Kirel's Bevin".

*shudder*

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