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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:02 am 
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Is anyone else worried that Reteltee might have just "Nick White" himself out of a job? :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:35 am 
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Frisky Badger wrote:
Is anyone else worried that Reteltee might have just "Nick White" himself out of a job? :lol:


Reteltee is 'fraternizing with explorers'?!? 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:38 am 
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Far from Nick Whiting himself, vague and unsubstantiated statements fall right into DRC doctine. They're training him nicely.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:56 am 
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BladeLakem wrote:
Frisky Badger wrote:
Is anyone else worried that Reteltee might have just "Nick White" himself out of a job? :lol:


Reteltee is 'fraternizing with explorers'?!? 8)


Sorry not the "fraternizing" but the leaking info that isn't officially official yet. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:57 pm 
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Kirel has "access control", since it is limited to 100 explorers, just like the City and the Sanctuary. I expect that the new pubs will be listed on the Nexus, not reached via a book in Relto, and have similar limits. So I'm not too worried about this.

Actually, I'm a bit surprised that there are guild pubs at all at this point. Except for the Greeters, there are no formal guilds in place yet. It would seem to make more sense to wait for that, and then give each guild a pub as a private hangout, limited to members. Perhaps making them public (at least for now) is a way to give us more information about the original D'ni guilds: symbols, history, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:10 pm 
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BrettM wrote:
It would seem to make more sense to wait for that, and then give each guild a pub as a private hangout, limited to members.


Ummm... why would you assume that the Guild Pubs would ever be private? They are more likely to be the public area for Guild members and Guild supporters. We already have options for creating private neighborhoods.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:40 pm 
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I read that as private to a specific guild - something not global.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:45 am 
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I wonder if "access control" refers to controlling who can see your conversation?

We can already limit who can "hear" us by selecting the Age/Buddies/Neighbors list, etc. I think the guild members will need a "Guild" option, so they can talk amongst themselves without cluttering up our monitors with extraneous chatter that we don't necessarily need. After all, public speech would be a problem, but so would talking to each guild member individually.

Maybe something like the imagers - when you walk in the door, a blue light over the doorway goes "whummmm", and your KI gets the option of "Maintainers/Writers/... Guild" (which ever guild you happen to be in.) You can continue to listen and talk to the rest of the city, or select the guild to listen and talk to them.

Imagine trying to talk to someone in the city, while constantly scrolling through all the guild chatter!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:38 am 
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EowynCarter wrote:
Well, it's just a tee shirt.

And actually, i would love to be a greeter, but their selection is just too long. Too bad, i could have helped. I would have been able to be there European time, as well as greeting my fellow French countrymen in french. But no way i go though this, to much a mess to bother with. :(


What was your problem?

Cheers?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:22 pm 
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So, Reteltee used the term "access control" for the Guild Pubs, and others have followed suit. But that is a mistake.

Access control is a system that lets some people in and keeps others out. Somebody, somewhere, indirectly or directly, makes the decision about who gets in. My Relto has access control. Private Neighborhoods have access control. The Guild Pubs don't -- any player can get to any of them, and nobody can say otherwise.

(If Cyan prevented us from changing shirts, it still wouldn't keep anybody out, because we get five avatars. If they prevented different avatars from owning different shirts, we'd create Gametap subaccounts. If they blocked *that* ... I'd have serious questions about how much effort they were spending just to be mean person/people.)

What the Guild Pubs have is an access hassle system. You have to do extra work to get in.

"Access hassle" is not a negative judgement. But you do have to understand why the extra work is being imposed. Aegura has access hassle: you need to get a KI first. The reason is game immersion, pacing, and realism. The Vahkro caves have access hassle: you need to solve a puzzle first. The reason is to make them a meaningful reward for puzzle content.

Why make us swap shirts? One possible reason is voting. Cyan seems to want to know how many people are interested in each Guild. They track that through shirt ownership.

But I'm not sure what is added to the voting/support system by adding the Guild Pubs. I'd think it just makes it more likely for people to wear the *wrong* shirt. Say, if I visit the Maintainers Pub and forget to change my shirt back afterwards.

Another possible reason, as people have suggested, is to allow private Guild meetings. But we can cross that off the list, given the shirt system as it stands. If you want a private meeting, you still have to use a private Neighborhood or Age.

Another possible reason is to pressure people to stick to a single Pub, without *forcing* them to do so. I have some sympathy for this. It leads us to hang around with the same crowd by default. Community-building is good, and doing it without hard barriers is better.

Finally, there's the "naive" interpretation: Cyan wants each player to identify with a single Guild. I would say that the Guild Pubs simply do nothing to support that goal. They don't reward it, and they don't make it significantly easier to play that way. (If I'm really interested in some event at Cartographers Pub, the shirt is too low a barrier to change my behavior; I've already spent more effort than that just logging in.)

I guess that's my analysis. Basically, don't try to treat the Pubs as private space; you'll only frustrate yourself.

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