It is currently Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:03 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:29 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 10:02 pm
Posts: 2266
Location: Tigard, OR
Based upon rarified's comments here, rarified seems to imply that Cyan made available their version of the Bink-free source code.

rarified wrote:
The contributors to this particular fix that OpenUru bundled into the Cyan delivery removed and disabled these parts of the software one way. When Cyan provided us with the source code they used to build MOULa they made some more changes that didn't match ours. We now have to reconcile the two, as well as have a discussion about the way to handle the possibility this may happen again and how to manage these situations.


If the code that "Cyan provided us with" above has not yet been "reconciled" with the OU repository ... I'm not certain we're waiting on Cyan to take the initiative here. We might be waiting on OU. I'll poke someone over there to please comment on this.

_________________
MOULa KI: 26838 | Prologue Videos | Visit rel.to to explore Myst, Uru, and D'ni communities!
Click here for social/game profiles


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:48 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 2:02 pm
Posts: 812
Location: Switzerland
Adam is correct that the bug of getting stuck in the intro cave was introduced by Cyan, after they had received working code from OU (where the cave would only show up briefly and you would immediately continue), and that it would therefore technically be up to them to fix it. However, it’s probably not realistic to expect them to do that – not for lack of care, just for scarcity of time and capability. So, in the end, it probably still falls upon us, the fans, to devise a fix that will work with Cyan’s differently-debinked source, and propose it via the usual Minkata route.

Marten, you are correct that we have Cyan’s sorce code that is needed for that – it’s here in the CWE repository. The problem is that the differences in that source code to the one in CWE-ou make it hard for us to work with it – which is also the reason why CWE development at OU has seen so little activity for recent months.

Here’s how I explained it from my point of view in response to a private enquiry regarding the Aspect ratio distortion discussion, one month ago:
Christian Walther wrote:
Marten wrote:
The Gehn shard client has, for a while now apparently, had a fix for the aspect ratio issue. (I'm sure Christian can comment more on this.)
Right. It’s here: https://github.com/H-uru/Plasma/pull/299. I’ve been meaning to take a thorough look at it to convince myself that it’s a complete and correct fix, since this is one of my pet bugs too, but it has never happened… so I can’t say much yet.

rarified wrote:
Christian was going to be looking at the issues merging 918 client changes back to the OU fork. Cyan implemented elimination of Bink somewhat differently than what we sent in. Until that merge happens new updates need to be held.

As rarified says, what’s currently holding up everything is dealing with the curve ball that Cyan has thrown us with the 918 update. It’s not just that the Bink elimination happened differently, there’s a whole lot more (mainly in the Visual Studio files) that doesn’t work for us. Conversely, what we have in CWE-ou doesn’t work for Cyan, we just never noticed because we believed that they were using what was in CWE, which they weren’t (by mistake), up until (excluding) 918.

In addition to that, it all came mashed together in a single commit with no meaningful commit message, which makes it very hard to follow.

This leaves two tasks until we can return to the usual routine of taking contributions into CWE-ou:

1. Dissect the monolithic 918 commit into digestible chunks, with commit messages that explain the reasons. (We’ve gotten those from Chogon in e-mail conversations.)

2. Create something that builds both for us and for Cyan with as little duplication as possible, in hopes of making it easier to get CWE-ou changes into CWE (MOULa) in the future.

Strictly speaking, task 1 isn’t absolutely necessary, but I think it would be helpful both for task 2 and for future reference.

I have started work on 1 and have gotten somewhere midway through it. However I’ve had limited time, and in the limited time other priorities, so I’ve got nothing done over the last 3 months. I haven’t done anything about task 2 yet.

Marten wrote:
What can I do to get the ball rolling on the next round of fixes to incorporate in MOULa, with this being Fix Number One ?

Well, if you want to help with tasks 1 and 2, that would be welcome. You could start from scratch on your own solution or I could give you my work-in-progress. We can probably share Chogon’s explanations too.

Or you could already start porting the H-uru fix over to the current CWE-ou. I have no idea what it takes, it may be easy or not. But then, once you’ve done that, integrating it would still need to wait for the completion (or abandonment or replacement) of tasks 1 and 2.

By the way, Fix Number One (in chronological terms) would be the first one of those currently ready and waiting, https://bitbucket.org/OpenUru_org/moulscript-ou/pull-request/19/fix-ki-chat-scrolling-issue-when-scrolled.


As far as I’m concerned, the “little time and other priorities” situation continues, so help from others would be welcome.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:59 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 4:41 pm
Posts: 1686
Location: South Georgia
Bless your soul, CW. When I look at my massive to-do list and the code I maintain, I pick my battles, and I surely don't pick one involving a massive monolithic commit and a silly bug. I get a lot more done that way :)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:34 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:09 pm
Posts: 1987
Location: Berlin, Germany
Hihi, sweet ... and thank you so much, Christian, for showing up and putting this all into a 'more understandable' context for us non-coders and -specialists, as far as that might be understandable by us at all lol ... :P

No, seriously, this shows and Adam has hinted to that several times already that there's more to this all than just people forgetting that in Windows you dismiss every app or screen etc. in general with the Esc key, means that a simple addition of a button like 'Explore Uru' as you see it on the shards or sth like 'Press Esc' to that cavern wall animation wouldn't be a solution to the overall more important issue, which would still remain in place, which seems to be the 'incapability' of the H'Uru and OpenUru teams to further provide improvements or even fan made content to MOULa as long as their 'codes' aren't being reconciled or made consistent with the ones from Cyan/Moula, but you've said it more precisely, Christian

Quote:
Adam is correct that the bug of getting stuck in the intro cave was introduced by Cyan, after they had received working code from OU (where the cave would only show up briefly and you would immediately continue), and that it would therefore technically be up to them to fix it. However, it’s probably not realistic to expect them to do that – not for lack of care, just for scarcity of time and capability. So, in the end, it probably still falls upon us, the fans, to devise a fix that will work with Cyan’s differently-debinked source, and propose it via the usual Minkata route.
and
rarified wrote:
Christian was going to be looking at the issues merging 918 client changes back to the OU fork. Cyan implemented elimination of Bink somewhat differently than what we sent in. Until that merge happens new updates need to be held.
I wonder why they did that in the first place ... but there's even more to it all ...
Quote:
As rarified says, what’s currently holding up everything is dealing with the curve ball that Cyan has thrown us with the 918 update. It’s not just that the Bink elimination happened differently, there’s a whole lot more (mainly in the Visual Studio files) that doesn’t work for us. Conversely, what we have in CWE-ou doesn’t work for Cyan, we just never noticed because we believed that they were using what was in CWE, which they weren’t (by mistake), up until (excluding) 918.

Yeah, thanks a lot, Christian and all in our open-source teams, it seems the solution to this all lies in your capable hands unless someone of Cyan would come in to contribute to such efforts ... :D

_________________
MO:ULa is Image - Minkata Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:15 pm 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6227
Location: Everywhere, all at once
janaba1 wrote:
I wonder why they did that in the first place ...

No small part of it lies in the effort to keep MOULa sustainable (CAVCON). Chogon's efforts have been to reduce the costs to operate MOULa, including the time it takes for him and Cyan to deal with updates according to their concerns and their build system. There were some technical changes to the project code structure for that purpose. Consequently, what's easier and quicker for him and Cyan makes us responsible to compensate for the other side of that equation while making our donations more efficient.

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: