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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:41 am 
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I was wondering if anyone noticed this in one of the book of kings. King Ahlsendar during his reign there were rumors that he had special linking abilities and witnesses said he didn't need linking books to go from one place to another. Also that he could link anywhere within an age.

Maybe yeesha wasn't the only one that had such abilities.



whats your thoughts

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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:04 am 
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There's that possibility. I think another is that Ahlsendar used a Bahro pelt similar to Esher. While Yeesha in EoA references 10,000 years of Bahro slavery, it's possible this is incorrect and that Ahlsendar was the D'ni King who introduced Bahro slavery.
Regardless of this bit, it's possible he was the D'ni King who used the Bahro in such a way.

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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:11 pm 
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My personal thoughts (i didnt finish my digging in history) are :
Great King Ahlsendar could use the help of the bahros to link him wherever he wanted by simply ordering them (as they did in Myst 5 and in URU CC).
They were slaves after all.
I dont believe King Ahlsendar was (is?) a bad guy, i mean, cutting a piece of bahro skin to do the trick.
Heh read also my signature...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:02 am 
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Yes, I do remember reading something about that. (I have to finish going through the book of kings... :) ) But n any case, that makes sense to me... Although what could it be caused by? The advanced linking abilities? The Bahro have that ability, I know that.
Hm... I agree with Dimitrios, about using the Bahro... But I'm still not sure how you could get them to link you somewhere without the Bahro being seen, as it's apparent in the claims talked of in the Books of Kings.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:30 pm 
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Myth is the penultimate truth here folks,as the Ultimate, just simply cannot be put into words,
........or pictures
........ or even linking books for that matter.lol

Ahlsender-The Great King still continues to baffle and inspire me all the same,
A King whose rise to reign amidst War and Chaos who's deeds portray him as Aniti-Hero at the same time as
Esteemed Monarch securing peace with a final act of sacrifice taking with him the potent poisenous power in
all its remaining form,into the Tomb of the Great King until his Prophesised return!!!

at points this Tale of early D'Ni History reminds me of the Gra'al Myths or the Legend of King Arthur,all very allegory
an deeply esoteric,it must have been a fabulously dangerous dramatical period,-The King,The Bharo,The Pento,and the Stage of it centering around all of D'ni Culture at that point.

Anyhoo lol

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:14 am 
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I don't think the Bahro were involved directly in the abilities of the Great King. I believe the Bahro were kept as slaves in secret which is why so few documents exist that have even the slightest hint about them. I have always felt that the Bahro imprisonment stretches back to Garternay and that perhaps the Bahro are the origins of The Art in general. Of course it's all speculation. I am 100% positive there was/is more planned with Ahlsendar as that particular story is by far the most well known and most prevalent story in what we know of D'ni history (speaking out of canon).

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:35 pm 
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My take on this:

Yeesha is the last descendant of Ahlsendar, and this is why she is the Grower.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:58 pm 
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Quote:
Yeesha is the last descendant of Ahlsendar, and this is why she is the Grower.


I don't think this is possible. The prophecies about the family strongly imply that Yeesha will have a daughter (see the reference to "the daughter of the daughter",) and Yeesha's palm reading diagram done on Serenia seems to bear this out too (by the line labeled "Offspring" on her lower palm.)

A descendant, very possibly. The last, probably not, since evidence suggests she had or will have at least one child. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:18 am 
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Anna Catherine wrote:
Quote:
Yeesha is the last descendant of Ahlsendar, and this is why she is the Grower.


I don't think this is possible. The prophecies about the family strongly imply that Yeesha will have a daughter (see the reference to "the daughter of the daughter",) and Yeesha's palm reading diagram done on Serenia seems to bear this out too (by the line labeled "Offspring" on her lower palm.)

A descendant, very possibly. The last, probably not, since evidence suggests she had or will have at least one child. :)


I know, when I said "last", I meant "last up until now" :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:41 pm 
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was aitrus or any of his ancestors in ahlsender's bloodline? there's no mention of that anywhere and you'd think there would be if that was true. gehn was only half d'ni, atrus even less, and katran was rivenese. i can't get behind the yeesha is the grower because she's a descendant of ahlsander thing. i just don't think that's accurate.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:15 pm 
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My belief? Being the Grower is a trait and a certain thing, possibly caused by environmental conditions on birth possibly not. (See that one seer who was born mid-link)
In turn it means there isn't just one Grower. Yeesha will probably be the last, unless it has nothing to do with D'ni blood, or the ideas of people on the surface being D'ni descended, or the idea of Yeesha's daughter isn't just conjecture.

Really though, what I feel is there's no guarantee we only even have just one grower... maybe Kadish would have been one had he not died, and it took Yeesha to go back and save one of them to make him realize what was actually possible, and really do it instead of faking it for others.
(There's a line of conjecture I have for that but it's too long to go into right now here)


Really, what I feel in the end is "Grower" is a term given, thanks to a prophecy that like most is probably going to be self-fulfilling if it happens, and in Yeesha's case she mixed up the idea of self-linking (which may actually happen multiple times as an unrelated thing) and turned it into the whole Grower messiah-complex she developed before she realized how bad she got and mellowed out.

Or alternately it could be the bahro can teach self-linking to anyone, and this king just did too (and it was never recorded because he never admittted it or something) and the others like Esher just don't have the patience to be nice to bahro and actually learn their secrets. I doubt they would give it up unwillingly to anyone, slave or not, or it would have happened many times before now, regardless of what "slavery" did involve. We still have no idea on that so suggesting people ordered them is shaky ground.



Phew! Anyways, tl;dr: dunno. Not enough info. :?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:21 pm 
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Personally, I've always suspected that the Grower prophecy was indeed self-fulfilling.

If Atrus and Katran hadn't treated Yeesha as the potential Grower from a relatively young age, would she still have grown up to be it? I would tend to think she would still have turned out to be quirky and unusually talented, but probably not have become the Grower.

Depends how absolute you view prophecy as being, I suppose. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:15 pm 
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i see ahlsendar as a Christ figure, so i believe he was likely the Great King

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:36 pm 
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they were both christlike figures

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:24 am 
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To put yourself into the Great Kings shoes and imagine
that you are standing there inside the great vault watching the D'ni builders
putting the last few bricks of stone in place sealing up the doorway forever!

What do you think was going through the Great Kings head at that
percise moment when the last brick was placed, sealing him in,
(buried alive) his own tomb?

'Yeesha is the last descendant of Ahlsendar, and this is why she is the Grower.'

Got to get Atrus's family tree (M4), Atrus was only part D'ni so that made Yeesha even
less D'ni. Aitrus married T'ana (a normal human woman) they had
Ghen (who was only half D'ni). Not sure if Ghen married a full D'ni woman or not.
But his son was the Atrus we all know from the games. We need to check Lara documents
to see if there is any more info (though very doubtful) on peticular subject of the great King and
the Grower.

There is paradox and revelation when it comes to talking about the Grower and the Bahro,
The Bahro are quite simply the care takers of the Tree of Possibility.
They get their (powers to us) from the Maker, The Art is second nature to them.

Remember you must think in Quantom
The Tree of Possibility (think of a huge Tree) and all lets say, Discriptive Books
are but a single branch of this Tree Of Possibility; TOP 'for short'. ( the universe)
All ages that are linked from the Branch (discriptive book) are the leafs.

The Bahro could be coinsighted with ETs or better, angels and devils from Yahvo/Jakooth
Yes they are what make the Art possible! Bahro are teachers and workers They live to serve!!!
that is another thing they naturaly do. They CAN NOT be ENSLAVED! because they can always link out.
The only way to keep them from linking is to have a certain type of poisones snake bite them, acording to
Eusher. (M5) But there is nothing snake like in URU that would suggest this type of enslavement.
Apart of Bahro teaching was how to make the special ink and books.

The orignal place of the rosetta stone was located in the Watchers Pub down in the Mysterious
floating (a down scaled version of the true TOP?) Tree. After the last offical Grower died,
was when something changed ( quantom change! ) as to what acataly happened is
still in obscurity. But the Rosetta stone was 'somehow' moved to K'ver ( the rosetta stone could
be in more than one place at once! It was also appears in 'each' Root Discriptive Age!)
The Star Fissure can not be left out either as to if it was apart of this change or not.
Kadish I believe was the cause in his meddling in Bahro Art. on this Root branch!
Yeesha later learned of this through the Bahro. ( The sacred Line the D'ni would not cross )
Because the D'ni believed as we human do, is that 'There are things out there that humans should not
meddle with!' because the outcome if you do meddle with 'IT',
99.1% always meets with destruction, chaos and/or death!

( The Grower is the only one who could learn more and get close to the rosetta stone.
and apply any new knowlage wisley.
( Imagine if it fell into the Wrong hands! ) Which sadly it did around this time in D'ni history.
Also note that the Relignmia(spelling) (D'ni secret police force) where in full operation at this time too.

Tree has Roots. Garternay was the SEED! which sprouted ROOTS, The people of the Root,
Then the Tree began to grow, thus taking the Seed into itself! ( Garternay exploded when its sun went super nova).
The Bahro and the Ronahey(spelling) did co-exist The rosetta stone appeared in each Root discriptive book age.
So out of many probably thousands of Roots only 2 main (escape at that time) Roots became branches,
The D'ni and ( The age Atrus discovered while trying to restore D'ni the city.)

The Bahro was/where so common among the D'ni they probably never thought to write about them.
Like eating utencles and many other things we take for granted.

The daughter of the daughter M'rium (spelling) is Yeesha's Daughter!
It could only be yeesha if Rivenies Catherine's family tree were somehow tied to the D'ni.
There was D'ni on Riven helping Gehn. (Gehn excaped Riven to his own Branch he wrote)


.

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