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Bring Back The Guilds?
Yes. 30%  30%  [ 59 ]
No 22%  22%  [ 43 ]
What Guilds Are You Talking About? 7%  7%  [ 13 ]
Only Some That Could Help People: (ex-The Writers, Linguists, Messengers) 24%  24%  [ 47 ]
Start Modern Guilds Only (Greeters etc.) 16%  16%  [ 32 ]
Total votes : 194
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:46 pm 
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Here is an idea...why not we have one huge guild that everyone belongs to? We will all help each other socialize together and have fun. We can call it the Guild of Uru players.

Because to me creating Sub divisions by organizing cliques (And lets face it even with the best intentions this is what’s going to happen) will not serve the community in any positive way. Yes you will have Guilds that want nothing more than to help out folks, but if Myst teaches us anything it teaches that Human nature Nine Times out of Ten always reverts to the darker side of it's authoritative base.

Most of humanities problems have started because one group of people wanted to separate themselves from everyone else, and Volunteering can easily stray into do what I say. We all see this as a stark reality in other online games. "Yes Dunraven but we’re different than those Greedy B.net Kiddies." Are we? Are you completely sure that given time and opportunity our community won't spawn it's very own Fires Of Heaven guild? Our community is a social lot, I would truly hate to see that diminished by what amounts to the Lunchroom "Cool Table." :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:21 pm 
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If there are thousands and thousands of people in Uru Live, I would think that people will want to group - hence guilds. If there are 100 people in the game, I suspect you won't want guilds, but if there are thousands and thousands, then guilds might be a good idea.

Look, I think you need to look at what players like to do in games and accomodate that, with regards to organization and game play. If players like to be in smaller groups (evidence seems to point to that) in a game, then that's what you do. If people want to be a part of a group, then guilds make sense. So yes, sure, guilds, fine. The interesting thing will be how they handle gameplay in terms of solo player and group play. That's the interesting part - will you be able to "progress" in the game (yeah, I know, no leveling, but there will be progression) as a solo player, or will you need to group. That will be interesting to see.

I'm also never sure on this forum what people are talking about when they refer to the Uru live "community" - avid fans who all know each other? Heavens, I don't want that. I'm hoping that the Uru Live attracts a whole series of players playing including people who don't know each other and aren't, you know, all exactly the same.

I don't think of this as as a "focus on the darkside" - but that statement on "humanity" in the post above me was very simplistic, in my opinion. People and societies are wonderfully complicated.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:54 pm 
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That's a really good point, when it gets full and fuller, you need some kind of structure, or it'll be just crowded chaos.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:29 am 
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:) ‘If there are thousands and thousands’ – let’s not build castles in the air. We’ve been here before, remember? Don’t misinterpret me – it would please me no end if we did achieve figures such as these. And, you are correct – it would require some semblance of order – less we end up with a ‘mish-mash’.

Like all things new – we’ll all be queuing up to enlist, then after the novelty has worn off - for some, the figures will undoubtedly dwindle. There will be a lot of ‘trialers’ – the ones who will give it a go for a few months – these are the ones that need to be influenced to stay and not be discouraged by an early introduction to something that may be just a ‘tad’ too superfluous to swallow.

I know you will always have your faithful diehards – we just need everyone to stay – in the initial stages anyway. As a general rule - members will - come and go anyway - 'cie la vie'.

If the Guilds are to be introduced – I only hope its when, and if, we have the ‘thousands and thousands’, and not in the early ‘teething stages’.

Yes – it’s that conditional statement again ‘if’ - they are introduced - I have a feeling their popularity will swing like a pendulum akin to this debate.

Alas, I’m well aware that you simply cannot please all of the people all of the time, we all have to accept the fact that there will always be elements of Uru Live that don’t appeal to everyone. It has been like that for all Myst games – and a true Urudite (or whatever is decided for the collective noun) will take it in their stride as they have always done

Everyone knows my feelings on having Guilds in Uru Live (Relax… I’m not going to re-iterate my earlier posts). And I do respect the Pros that are pushing them; it’s a free country isn’t it? All I’m asking is that they ‘bide their time’ until the situation is more ripe. Introducing them too early – (dare I even whisper it?) may just be the death knell.

'Neg vibes' over, and on a more positive note, I have all the confidence in the Cyan team – that they will undoubtedly come up with a happy solution for all.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:49 pm 
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Stevecrox wrote:
:roll: we've worked our way back to "OMG GUILDS EVIL!"
ZOMG! indeed :|
I still don't understand where this "guilds will seperate us and players will become a gray blob of elitistic pricks" type opinion comes from. Really. Sure, there will undoubtedly be idiots running amok, but they will be there regardless of what systems, factions etc. the game will incorporate, but that's exactly why the game will be tweaked so that exploits and such will be eliminated. I think that it's indeed far greater harm to have one single massive group of players, neighborhoods nonewithstanding (in fact, I don't really view the hoods as a strong group forming system, as the borders so to say are very fleeting. I mean, I can go from hood to hood freely, and being a member doesn't change much beside it being easier to link to).

Group building is a good thing that strengthens the players and thus the game. No need to get philosophical about elitism and oppression and whatnot .

Secondly, there is this thing about equal content, which I think ties together with the guild opinions quite nicely. In the end, some people say that they want access to everything, simply because they "pay the same $9.95". Frankly, I think that dulls the game experience down alot, as it's alot more fun to have choices and consequences. Think of World of Warcraft for example, where you have tons and tons of options and choices you can make. You choose race (not that much difference between them though), class, profession etc. You can choose to be a Troll and thus starting on the western Kalimdor continent with its own very, very unique content. You can then choose a profession like Alchemy, where you create various potions and vials, or you can choose to be an Engineer and create dynamite, explosive sheeps and fireworks. To merge everything in WoW so that everyone have access to everything would definately snuff out the game. It wouldn't have the spark. The spark is because of the groups, because of the competition and the war between the Horde and the Alliance.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:23 am 
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:D Pros and Cons re the debate on resurrecting an ancient system that was run eons ago by the D’ni race cannot be compared with the online games you mentioned. The games you mention appear to offer a choice – and you are categorised at the beginning and will undoubtedly have skills that other groups do not – and vice versa.

One of the fears of introducing a Guild system in Uru Live appears to conjure up the idea that Guild members may be privy to gameplay that will not be permitted to non-Guild members. Yet, these Guild members will still have everything that your mere Explorers have. In other words in this example they get more for their money (this is just one of the reasons).

The Cons aren’t against groups or teamplay – it will happen – as it did in Prologue – and the groups tended to be groups from the same neighbourhood. Albeit, there was a lot of changing around – people leaving one neighbourhood to join another (as easy as changing your hat!). But, there were groups, and individual teams that more or less would meet up together nightly for exploring or simply to discuss the daily topic. I expect the same will happen in the new Uru Live.

There are countless other reasons why some Explorer are against having different Guilds introduced (they’ve all been mentioned before in the thread – I’m not going to go through hierarchy and pointy hats again).

Just believe that there will be different groups, why – even these will naturally split up into smaller groups – and don’t forget your Jack Solo – who prefers to explore on his own. I seem to recall quite a few of those in Prologue – who simply didn’t want to belong to a group – especially one with a self appointed leader. They simply wanted to play the game and solve the puzzles on their own (some people are naturally shy – and prefer playing on their own). I personally enjoyed mingling with different groups, but there were times when I preferred to explore on my own.

So believe me – groups will form – mainly out of members of the same neighbourhood. Making new friends that you come across in some of the other ‘hoods may influence you to change ‘hoods. And my guess is that teamwork will play a large part in Uru Live to encourage people to solve puzzles easier and much quicker than if they went it alone – but the choice will still be there.

I think if the Guilds are introduced by Cyan – they will be controlled by them – but they will be played in a much lower key – either as a distraction between new content being added, and / or they will be open to all without any self appointed leaders with clandestine groups. And all Explorers will have access in – and out – like a visit to the library without any schoolboy initiation rites. There will not be any exclusive groups – so we will all be on the same footing – we may even pick up a Relto Page that gives us access to all or nothing – our choice.

Hmmm… I’d like a good library where I can just sit down and have a good read in between the episodes of content being added – some may like to go for a Disney Ride – again – individual choice.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:39 pm 
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All good points.

Let's hope there are thousands and thousands of players, and fairly quickly. From what I've read, hundreds of thousands of subscriptions aren't needed to keep Uru live going - but it seems to me more than a couple of hundred will be needed.

Right now I'm hoping for an optional guild system. Then again, I might find a guild to join that fits my needs. As a very casual player, who will be a happy player, but probably won't be on much, I'll have to look around to find the "right"guild.

I still have trouble understanding what we mean by "community". Right now the community is so very small, tiny. It may be not a completely representative sample of the player base, when Uru Live gets going.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:16 pm 
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The community as it is now (old school Myst fans, Prologue and UU players) is not all that uniform... witness the current debate for evidence of that. The community of players of Uru Live, as MSZV said, had better be much larger and more diverse, or the experiment will have failed.

Among all these players will be people with different preferences. Different ideas of what makes a game fun. Different experiences and expectations.

To come back to the WoW example, that game isn't played by 6 million people all of whom are elitist mean person/people. There's a small minority in the high end raiding guilds, trying to get the best armor and weapons in the game and complete the endgame content first... and a huge majority of people who hang out, quest a little, chat, pursue their professions, chat, farm reputation with various factions, farm gold or items, collect things like mounts or pets or fancy dresses, play PvP games, buy and sell at the auction house, keep making new alts to replay the early game with a different race/class, and chat. The game gives players a lot of things to do besides compete for the game's most valuable rewards, and most of the players are doing those things for most or all of their playtime. Blizzard keeps the content coming for such players... for instance, almost every patch includes a new festival, which comes with a new set of quests and activities with rewards which are almost exclusively decorative.

The best games provide a wide variety of different kinds of gameplay experiences for people who play in different ways. I think the best thing Cyan can do for the success of the project is to include and support as many different kinds of activities as possible so players with different tastes all have reasons to come, and to keep coming. Guilds could provide one such kind of activity.

And like I said before, cliques, politics and elitism will be there no matter what. It's not a quirk of those terrible MMORPG players... it's a fact about human nature. You find it in workplaces and volunteer organizations and circles of friends and orchestras and school playgrounds and Internet forums, and it will be there in Uru Live.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:37 pm 
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Guilds are a great way to improve game mechanics as well as in game friendships. It's one of the reasons that new guilds have formed. One of the major complications with guilds in any MMO is competition over resources.

I have played several MMOs, and have elected to take part in some very nice guilds. Over 90 % of the drama caused almost always involved this competition of resources in some way/shape/form. To make things even worse, you really can't play an MMO without being in a guild. Sure, you can function fine for a while, but the guilds are what help sustain the community and help players progress through the game.

I do not forsee any real competition of resources within Uru Live as it stands - we won't have to worry about killing some monster that only pops at certain times to get the one piece of uber-gear, etc. The guild system that is put in place should make sure that there is no real vying for resources and that being in a guild is not a requirement to further progress in the game.

In any case, we're all wanting to see Uru succeed and D'ni thrive once more - what's the point in having Uru Live back if we lose the overall sense of community that has held all Uru fans together this far?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:30 am 
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I have an observation I'd like to point out:

It is true that cliques, politics and elitism are naturally occuring, and cannot be avoided in the resurection of Uru.

However, just because they occur naturally does not mean they have to be encouraged.

Other than that, I'd like to toss out there one more time that the best idea for the Guilds VS No-Guilds, and Exclusive Content VS Everybody gets the same experiance was this:

Have optional guilds, give them exclusive content, but leave a well hidden and obscure "back door" access for the non guild members to sneak in. And obviously add a Relto shelf link to get back there again, after finding it the first time.

This would allow Guild Members their pointy hats, and secret guild halls easily, while essentially allowing clever persistant renegades access to the same content as a reward for the difficulty of gaining access.

See, isn't compromise grand?

(PS: See my previous post in this thread for more details on this idea.)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:30 am 
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I have to say, I'm starting to like the Quest system idea.
You can join one guild, get their age, do a quest to get another guilds age, etc. or not join a guild but still do quests independantly to get the ages.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:24 am 
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I don't care if they come back or not, as long as I still get my good ol Guild of Investigators :D (That I founded of course)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:19 am 
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I voted no.
Have not read the whole debate so prolly someone has said this before.
I don't think a seperate Guildsystem needs to be introduced. Uru already has such a system in the form of the 'hoods. You can choose to join or make your own neighbourhood and it can functions as a Guild such as excist in WoW and GW: a group of friends who like to hangout together.

As for the different "D'ni Guilds" already created, like the Guild of Greeters, the Linguistic fellowship, the Guild of Carthographers, the Cavern Today etc. Many players have an interest in more than one of these groups. With a Guild system one would have to choose for just one Guild and thus not be recognized as part of another group as well. Unless you made a seperate avie for every Guild you want to be part of. Which to me negates the idea of You are You in Uru.

I rather see the system in Uru where you live in a 'hood and can join with the different interest Guilds whenever these have an activity you want to join in. Just like on the surface, where we live in an area and can join the chess-club on monday and without having to move to a new home to the streetfightersclub on friday.

I also do not like the idea of Guilds holding rights over an age. Access to an area should be regulated by how far one has progressed in the game, not by belonging to a certain group, unless this is part of the story f.i. if you have to choose between different views, but those should not be in the hand of players.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:45 am 
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HannaGertie wrote:
As for the different "D'ni Guilds" already created, like the Guild of Greeters, the Linguistic fellowship, the Guild of Carthographers, the Cavern Today etc. Many players have an interest in more than one of these groups. With a Guild system one would have to choose for just one Guild and thus not be recognized as part of another group as well. Unless you made a seperate avie for every Guild you want to be part of. Which to me negates the idea of You are You in Uru.

For the record, to perhaps clarify my previous posts, when I say "guild" I mean a construct like guilds in MUDs which are controlled by the creators of the game. I've always imagined that would be the direction Cyan is heading, with the fixed number of historical Guilds and all.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:42 pm 
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What Srikandi said - great post Sri!

Yes, that's exactly what I want, exactly - lots of different things to do in the game, ldifferent rewards, lots of ways to connect with people, and ways to get stuff! That's what I want.

I think that the ability to form groups is a great thing.

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