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Bring Back The Guilds?
Yes. 30%  30%  [ 59 ]
No 22%  22%  [ 43 ]
What Guilds Are You Talking About? 7%  7%  [ 13 ]
Only Some That Could Help People: (ex-The Writers, Linguists, Messengers) 24%  24%  [ 47 ]
Start Modern Guilds Only (Greeters etc.) 16%  16%  [ 32 ]
Total votes : 194
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 12:58 am 
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I think guilds (not necessarily the same ones the d'ni had) would be fun as long as they help people, e.g.

Guild of Linguists: to translate bits of d'ni we find,
Guild of Greeters: to welcome newcomers,
Guild of Cartographers: to map the ages,
etc.

It might be nice if there were, say, five major guilds with many subcategories, like if the Guilds of Linguists contained the age writers, the authors, the linguists, and so on.

I also think that the guilds shouldn't be too official. Anyone should be allowed to join or leave the guilds at their discretion. The better guildsman you are, the more you and others will take pride in your work.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:22 am 
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Why would we be asked a question like this??? After sitting down and thinking about it, I think the whole question is temperature gauge so they have an idea of how they will want to provide interesting gameplay to us.

Think about it...

I'm just dreaming, but let's go through a hypothetical situation. Say, just for instance, by some MIRACLE of the modern age, that Cyan gave us the ability to write our own ages...

First, you would need to learn how to read and write in D'ni...in walk the Guild of Linguists that people could go to their guild hall, go in, sit down and learn how to read, write and speak in D'ni.

Second, you would then have to get a book...in walks the Guild of Bookmakers, you could sit and learn how to put the pages together, bind it and create a book.

Third, you would have to have a pen...in walks the Guild of Pen Makers...so you could learn how to make a pen.

Fourth, you would need different types of Inks to write with...in walks the Guild of Inkmakers so you could learn how to make ink.

Fifth, you would need to learn how to write the age yourself...in walks the Guild of Age Writers, teaching you how to build objects and different things that your age would be made of...

Sixth, you would have to have a maintainer go through and check your age and make sure it was safe for everyone...in walks the Maintainers Guild.

I think we would need to do each step via a common interface that was not run by anyone, instead, I believe it should be built into the game play. As you got more proficient at a skill, completing various tasks, you could rise through the guild ranks and it would be a part of your profile. Really, it would be no different than skilling up. AND if you wanted to stay in just one area, for example ink making, you could rise through the ranks and be a Master, but all of the steps would be crucial to getting you to the point of age creation. You would join other explorers on the same quest for knowledge as you are on, actually building the community rather than bickering and pulling each other apart over a mad dash for power. Greed and other such negative sentiments led to the fall of D'ni...not people who were on a quest for knowledge.

So if they were ever going to go in the direction of giving us more things to do and more abilities in this new Uru Live...I am 100% FOR bringing back the guild system. It would make gameplay more fun, give us more things to do and talk about and begin to bring the city back to life.

Bringing back user-run Guilds is just a recipe for disaster. I believe that fansites are always a good thing, but they should remain just as that, fansites. As many people have said before, we have seen too much discord brought about because people will always have differing viewpoints and inevitably, with the broad human scope of the game, will bring Trolls and other not-so-desirable characters that just exist to stir the pot, not bring any positive results from their actions.

Just my 10 cents. But then again, I am just dreaming.

Sh'aeri

[edit]: If I'm going to dream...then let's really dream....

Ok, well age creation really isn't my thing, how about clothing???

First, you have to learn how to make thread....Guild of Threadmakers...
Second, you have to learn how to make cloth from the thread...Guild of Clothmakers or Weavers...
Third, you would have to learn how to make patterns to cut your fabric from...Guild of Patternmakers
Fourth, you would have to learn how to sew the pieces together...Sewing Guild.
Fifth, what kind of clothes are you making?? Guild of Robemakers
Sixth, what about other things that you wear? Guild of Jewelers, Guild of Haberdashers (hat makers), Guild of Cobblers (shoes), Guild of Beltmakers...

Are you getting my drift yet?? The possibilites are endless!!! And they all mean that you would be working with other explorers that have your same interests!!!

Let's keep going...so you want to be able to trade what you make??? Guild of Traders and to rise up from an ordinary trader?? Commerce Guild. I would love to be able to trade a pen I made for nicer robes down in the shopping district...wouldn't you???

It can go on and on...as our world grows and grows and grows....Isn't this what we speak of?? The tree beginning to grow again??

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Last edited by Sh'aeri on Thu May 11, 2006 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:33 am 
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We could probably skip the guild of pen-makers, since any pen will do for Age writing. :D

That's five guilds! Surely not a coincidence.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:45 am 
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If you do decide to go with guilds, I would recommened building on what already exists..

We already have an excellent D'ni language resource site and cartography guild

Starting up a new one fresh is just silly. but then people might not want to have a "Guild of Bob" name they might already have a Bob Explorers Group name which serves them better and is better known to the masses.

I like unoffical guilds, I am not fond of offical ones. but I would like to wear a guild uniform.

Guild of Writers (ie age builders) should be their own guild not part of linguists.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:22 am 
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If guilds are no more hierarchical or organized than the neighbourhoods... then why have them? Why couldn't people just join a hood that supported their interests, as they can now?

I think the suggestion of having guilds does imply something a bit more regulated and official.

Quote:
But only if guild membership is not required to fully appreciate the Cavern.

Well said. I agree! :)

Annacat

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:30 am 
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I'm all for the guilds. I like the idea of people with common interests working together towards a common goal that they are passionate about. Afraid of elitism? A guild system need not be discarded for fear of that, because the guilds are not the cause of elitism. Insecurity of individuals creates elitism. If you fill a room with people who are all equals, no matter how you try, you will never be able to prevent the grouping together of like-minded individuals. More importantly, why would you want to? I don't see that as reason to deny a group of enthusiasts the opportunity to gather and function as a guild.

It really comes down to how the guilds would operate. Given the right circumstances, elitism could be minimalized while inclusiveness would be encouraged.

I say - stoke the fires of our passion for this wonderfully fascinating culture. Give people the opportunity to contribute and reap the benefits of Guilds.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 3:27 am 
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The guilds could be schools we can go to in order to learn how to do things like: write, cater, maintain, etc. We could have skills in various areas, and by going to the guild halls we can raise those skills. The higher your skill in, say, writing, the more stable ages you can write (choose from a larger list of premade ages). The higher your skills in Maintaining, the less likely you are to die permanantly when linking to a new Age, etc.

In order to keep people from becoming too powerful and thus having too much fun, there would be a skill cap just like in UO, so that you would choose which area(s) to focus your education in, though at any time unused skills would diminish as you learn new ones.

In order to increase your skills while at the various guildhalls, you could do repetitive menial tasks, like practicing your writing of a D'ni letter, or opening and closing books to examine the linking panel, or dropping pellets into a silo.

And if anyone takes this seriously, please accept your diploma from the Guild of the Satire-free. ;) I have some sunny beaches on the west coast of the cavern I'd like to show you...


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 4:42 am 
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I'm very skeptical of Guilds. They sound an awful lot like fraternities. Though not designed to be elitist, they are by definition exclusive. Not everybody can be in all the Guilds, so I wouldn't want one group of people to have abilities or areas that only they can access. While it would be fun to have guild halls and/or official uniforms and shirts, why not just have Neighborhoods? The cartographers neighborhood could have their own shirt if they wanted, and every hood already has a meeting room. Basically, I see no need for Guilds that can't already be accomplished by specialized hoods. Plus, Guilds are too World of Warcraft. I'd much rather Cyan develop content that advances the story and gives us all something to explore. We're all in the Cavern for the same purpose, right?
Ryan


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 4:56 am 
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I never did start the Guild of Couch Potatoes as I had originally planned...

And I never did get around to joining the Guild of Procrastinators either...

:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 5:50 am 
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So many good posts here... :) reading them makes me wonder whether when each of us says "guild" we mean the same thing... A couple of concepts I think are floating around are:

  • traditional guilds of the D'ni (Linguists, Caterers, Maintainers, Bookmakers)
  • general interest groups (language, history, age building)
  • fansites/fangroups organized around the D'ni and their legacy (D'ni Linguistic Fellowship, Guild of Cartographers)
  • fansites/fangroups organized around the Cavern community (Cavern Communications Network, Tapestry Activities Guild)
  • officially sanctioned guild-ish organizations (Guild of Greeters)
  • Neighborhoods
And I'm sure you could put a couple more items on that list.

I'm just wondering how these pieces fit together, and whether they even all do fit together. What's the difference between a starting a Guild and opening a Neighborhood? How specific is a Guild -- does it represent a single fansite/fangroup, or a coalition of fansites (and explorers not affiliated with fansites) with a common interest? What are the responsibilities and privileges of being an official Guild? How important is it for fangroups to be officially registered/recognized (we've been doing a pretty good job without the t-shirt thus far!)? What happens to fangroups that don't get official recognition?

Just from the free association questions, it strikes me that, if a guild system were to be put in place, that it couldn't become a matter of one-group-one-guild -- who would determine which fangroup gets to be the Guild of Writers, the Guild of Musicians, the Guild of Linguists? We've done so well at being a community of communities, in our own way, I think messing with that could spell trouble. And heck, the hood list in Nexus is already huge -- who needs another one?

The only way I can imagine it, at the moment, is as a coalitional system: Guild of Writers is for any and everyone who is interested in age creation, speculation about the Art, linking theory; Guild of Linguists is for everyone interested in D'ni and ahrotahn languages, surface languages; etc. Each explorer would have the chance to join or leave a guild as they please, wherever their interest takes them.

The question of perks throws a bit of a wrench in the works -- say (hypothetically) each Guild gets its own Guild Hall. Unless each Guild Hall could have some kind of individualized nifty doodads, what would be the point of having them, when Neighborhoods already serve the function of offering a public gathering place for communities? If Guild Halls have individualized nifty doodads, what kind? Who has access to them? Are they tied to Guild activity?

I mean, it could have some really neat opportunities for storyline development (new document shows up in Linguists Guild Hall, it's translated and leads to a linking book that disintegrates the next day, yadda yadda), along the model Cyan has described before (some explorers have access to time-sensitive content, others who don't have direct access need to interact with those who do to see it, etc.). But any kind of reward system or ranking or special privileges (well, maybe a t-shirt's OK :P) makes me uneasy.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 6:01 am 
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:yeahthat: That was what I was envisioning: a group of umbrella guilds which anyone and everyone could join or leave as they please.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 6:10 am 
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I would also like to see a independant community where you can enter or leave guilds as it fits you. Like changing neighbourhoods.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 6:29 am 
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What about belonging to more than one guild? Should that be allowed?


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 11:09 am 
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Err,... I agree that "Guilds" would probably just foster ill-will and exclusion toward other people.

...except for the Greeters, Linguists, and ...hoo, Caterers... (I voted for the helpful Guilds).

I think the Guilds would be fine if you weren't required to belong to one, though. I mean, if Uru is all about a conflict about how to rebuild D'ni, I think having Guilds come back as an option for some people could potentially make the story and things more interesting.

...I just wouldn't want to belong to one. I'd wanna be a Bah'ro. :D


~Joey Boo'hru


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:11 pm 
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Owehn wrote:
I also think that the guilds shouldn't be too official. Anyone should be allowed to join or leave the guilds at their discretion.


This is what I'm talking about. Many people were offended at having to apply for membership to the Greeters and often verbally attacked working Greeters for running what they saw as an elitist organization.
Too much organization creates walls between players and those trying to simply help. People need to relax and have fun, period. Why does everything need a management system?
My second time in D'Mala shard I was pounced on by a new Greeter who enthusiastically wanted to help me. After patiently explaining that I was OK (having been a beta tester and one of the founding Guild Masters of the GOG, now retired), I came away from the experience with a new insight into how the Greeter detractors may have felt. It was an intimidating encounter and I can now sympathise with those who were put off by Greeters.

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