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Bring Back The Guilds?
Yes. 30%  30%  [ 59 ]
No 22%  22%  [ 43 ]
What Guilds Are You Talking About? 7%  7%  [ 13 ]
Only Some That Could Help People: (ex-The Writers, Linguists, Messengers) 24%  24%  [ 47 ]
Start Modern Guilds Only (Greeters etc.) 16%  16%  [ 32 ]
Total votes : 194
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:58 am 
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Tokai wrote:
:? I think it’s obvious that any suggestion which creates such a stir, and controversy among fellow Explorers like this one, must speak volumes to everyone.


Then again, having DRC Liaisions stirred volumes of controversies and yet they've proven to be a great idea and have already brought us the TH meetings. :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 12:28 pm 
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I think that it would be an excellent idea to re-enstate the Guilds. The purpose of the Guild System (In D'ni and all the other places it has been used, such as England and France, although they didn't bring the Guilds to the extent the D'ni did) is to prevent, or to keep low, unemployment. One example would be the relationship between the Guild of Inkmakers, Guild of Writers, and Guild of Bookmakers. If you increase membership in the Guild of Writers, then more ink and books have to be made. For that, you increase membership in the Inkmakers and Bookmakers. Though, if someone doesn't want to join a guild, that should be accounted for as well

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 1:31 pm 
I'm against anykind of guild system. Problem is not every guild could be represented in an IC situation. From an IC point of view explorers can't write ages. From an OOC point of view we are writing ages. The Age Creators out there in the community would have no IC representation in an IC guild system.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 1:37 pm 
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I think there already is a process to bring back the greeters, if all the right stages go thorough but really I think that all the Guilds should be allowed back in a variety of structures to support other peoples needs.

If they weren't brought back, they would deny a choice to those who did want to join join a guild by those who didn't, and communites nowerdays are open ended affairs rather than closed.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 1:49 pm 
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Key phrase in Moke's statement:

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for whoever wants to participate

Which implies to me that it isn't going to be a vital component of cavern life, but one option for involvement and activity, one way among many to make things interesting and fun. If Guilds aren't your cup of tea, I expect there will be many other options! And I also expect Cyan will be responsive to suggestions on how to improve things, once they've had the chance to hit the ground. It doesn't sound like them to just insert a Guild system because all online gaming worlds have it -- I'd think they'll put their own twist on it, make it tightly woven into the larger fabric and not just a stray thread. (Wouldn't surprise me if a Cyanist has been keeping an eye on the discussion here...)

I am intrigued by Moke's clarification on "a pretty sophisticated Guild system, which will have many roles" ... I remember a conversation Rand had with the Volcano people a couple months back, where he mentioned a number of traditional guilds who could have various modern functions, in relation to Age Building (Guild of Writers for the Age Builders, Guild of Maintainers for those testing fan ages, etc.). There's a chatlong somewhere on UO... I wonder if this is the model they're working on?

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:28 pm 
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More from Moke:

Moke (from the summary of the evening Cyan meeting) wrote:
Q: I would like to ask that, if you guys are thinking this far ahead, what will happen to the D'mala Shard after the opening of URULive?
M I'm not entirely certain, but like I told the morning group, Until Uru has had - and is still serving - an important purpose for the community. When Uru Live is back and growing like a weed, I'm not sure that purpose will remain. And I can tell you that the code between Until Uru and the new Uru Live will not be compatible. I hope we can take the ambition and energy of Until Uru and channel it into a Guild system and fan-created content for Uru Live.

Q: Which of the current Guilds will you be keeping, if any?
M: I'm not sure we have the right to speak for any of the current Guilds. We want to support everyone's idea of a guild - within reason - and we will help establish a few important Guilds, as well. So, I guess, all the current Guilds will continue in some form, and others will be added.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:33 pm 
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Thanks for that Moke! Interesting, for sure.

Yes, I believe there is a place for Until URU. For the dial-up folks who will be shut out of URU Live. *sigh* More than likely, anyhow.

As far as the guilds go, I just missed the storyline in Prologue. The week I joined was when people were talking about it, but nothing much was happening, story-line wise. So, I never really got a good sense of what the Guilds really did, you know? Anybody care to explain that to us, the ones who don't know?

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:50 pm 
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There were no Guilds, or even hints of Guilds, in the Prologue. Perhaps Cyan had intended that they evolve once Live actually started, but that's pure speculation.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:52 pm 
domahreh wrote:
... I remember a conversation Rand had with the Volcano people a couple months back, where he mentioned a number of traditional guilds who could have various modern functions, in relation to Age Building (Guild of Writers for the Age Builders, Guild of Maintainers for those testing fan ages, etc.). There's a chatlong somewhere on UO... I wonder if this is the model they're working on?


ICwise Guild of Writers would be wrong cause in an IC story the explorers can't write ages cause they don't know how. And it will be very difficult to explain how certain ones acquired the knowledge to write ages.

And I do not want a Guild of Maintainers. In my opinion thats between Cyan and the Age Creators. If the two want beta testers for the age, ok. But like any other content the explorers shouldn't be able to see the product till near completion if the creator and Cyan want it that way.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 5:19 pm 
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ICwise Guild of Writers would be wrong cause in an IC story the explorers can't write ages cause they don't know how. And it will be very difficult to explain how certain ones acquired the knowledge to write ages.

Well, nothing a little creative IC thinking could fix, no? I mean, Catherine wasn't even D'ni and she learned to write Ages on the sly. Yeesha's only 1/4 D'ni and she's doing things the older Writers never dreamed of! Not to mention she's been pretty friendly with us explorers who have taken the journey. No reason why we couldn't learn the Art from her?

Admittedly, it takes some story-telling to get there, but no reason why we can't tell those stories! And DRC and Cyan seem pretty into staying true to ICness in their respective arenas... I'd think they'd be all about making a viable IC way to integrate Age Building into cavern life... what better way than a grassroots reinvigoration of a new Guild of Writers?

Quote:
And I do not want a Guild of Maintainers. In my opinion thats between Cyan and the Age Creators. If the two want beta testers for the age, ok. But like any other content the explorers shouldn't be able to see the product till near completion if the creator and Cyan want it that way.

But isn't that exactly what a Maintainer would do? Check and recheck fan-made ages so that when they go public and accessible, they are as close to completion as possible? It seems to me that "Maintainer" is one way to make the technical task of beta testing new content, which I expect lots of explorers would be interested in doing, into an IC activity. The same way, when an IC explorer is going to quit the game, they might say, "Linking back to Relto to catch some zzzz's," an IC Maintainer, when going to beta-test a fan age, might say, "I've got some tests to run on the Age of Zardoz..."

No?

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 8:28 pm 
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To me, the only issue with a Guild of Writers would be personal, as a Writer would essentially be a 3D modeler/programmer and I can't do 3D to save my life. From a fan POV, it's a little sad that a writer can't be a Writer. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:04 pm 
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Not everyone involved in age creation is modelling. Some are writing journals, some are doing concept sketches, some are making music...


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:07 pm 
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:yeahthat: That's true. I'm rather terrible at modelling, but I enjoy concept sketching! (Actually, I'm not so great at that either, but I find it more fun.)

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:37 pm 
Yeah we could use someone to do concept art over at AgeBuilder. All you have to do is start sketching and submit what you do.


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 4:01 pm 
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In my opinion Guild's will almost be required for IC play. How would you explain somebody running by you that is checking for bugs in the age? He/she could be wearing a maintainer's suit or something of the like. This would even give ppl someone to report problems to IC. But then I could see the Maintainers Union getting upset with that because they should be reporting to the clerk not the worker.... you know filling out form #2342C.
Some day in the future ppl might be able to write their own personal ages. Then they could make their, "Graduated From The Writers Guild" announcement and invite ppl to see their work. That would keep things IC instead of saying, "I took a class in 3D rendering and wrote my own program to....."
I just hope we don't see guilds that polarize ppl like here in the US, like the guild of Republican or Democrat...lol

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