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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:00 am 
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I don't think that's a problem here, tk. I can't see any fan-made age being released into Cyan's universe arbitrarily.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:52 pm 
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tkwiggins wrote:
I think the cold water that keeps getting doused on the notion of Fan Age Making is a reaction to some of the Fan Age Makers themselves.

Not all, but some. Those who claim to be motivated by creative desires, but in fact desire to compete with other Fan Age Makers to get attention for themselves. Those who claim to love the game, but are egotistic in their attitudes and strident in their demands to the game makers. Those for whom fan creations are all about the big "Me."

These alleged egotistical narcissists are but a few in a world population of 6.5 billion. What do they really matter to you? You'll be happier to turn your attentions to people who matter in your personal life and are a positive influence. Trust Cyan to deal with their own intellectual properties as they see fit.

Also, we are just as free to ignore fan-created ages as Cyan has promised they will be to create the ages. It won't matter if the ages exist unless people enjoy them. If people enjoy them, the success is deserved. If people don't enjoy them, or the politics behind them, we will not go there and the wannabes will pack up their egos and leave.

There's no reason to fear these things so much that we would deny these folks their chance to succeed or a well-done age to exist.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:00 pm 
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4th guy wrote:
Stevecrox wrote:
But Cyan have an arts team, a group who builds wireframe models, a group who figures out textures, a group which adds python code. These people do their job for a living, they have learnt something to a high degree and do it well.
If you have tPotS prima guide I suggest you flick through it. What Cyan does is the exact opposite of what you just said.
Each artist creates, for example, on object. The object is modeled and textured by the same artist.


Wow I didn't know that, you live and learn

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:38 pm 
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tkwiggins wrote:

I don't think "threatened" is what folks feel when they roll their eyes at the thought of fan-made Ages.

I'm not sure it's concern, either, over the prospect of sub-par creativity or amateurish execution, that makes people groan.

I think the cold water that keeps getting doused on the notion of Fan Age Making is a reaction to some of the Fan Age Makers themselves.

Not all, but some. Those who claim to be motivated by creative desires, but in fact desire to compete with other Fan Age Makers to get attention for themselves. Those who claim to love the game, but are egotistic in their attitudes and strident in their demands to the game makers. Those for whom fan creations are all about the big "Me."

No matter if it's Uru Ages, video games, comic books or Trekkers, it's those kind of fans who sully the concept of fan creations.


Actually, the tone of most anti-fan-Ages posts in this thread has indeed had a somewhat, for lack of a better term, "paranoid" tone.

The reason cited, over, and over, and over again is that fan mage Ages cannot be as good as Cyan Ages, and there for should never be allowed, lest they somehow dirty Cyan's work by proxy. This is the irrational "fearful"tone I was refering to.

And yes, you are right, some people are just asses, but if we safeguard everything to the tiniest detail to prevent anyone from having the ability to be egotistical at all... Nobody is going to have any fun, and egotistical mean person/people are just going to find another way to be egotistical mean person/people.

So why restrict, your fun, and my fun, and a whole lot of other people's fun just to cut off one avenue for egotistical people to brag?

A good Age will stand on its own or fall into obscurity on it own, by its own merits, completely independent of the politics that went into its creation.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:59 pm 
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The main reason to allow fan ages is because that's what many of us expected from Uru Live. For example, when I first told my father (a mild Myst fan who loved Riven) about Live, the first thing he asked was whether we could write our own Ages. He was disappointed to hear that we couldn't (yet), and said that Age creation would be the thing to get him excited about the game.

Creating Ages is something fun, whether you're making them in the Uru engine or writing about them or making little doodles in your school notebooks. And it's one of the best ways for the Uru experience to be less like a theme park ride and more of a creative and constructive process.

When I went to Mysterium last year, I was amazed at the crafts and projects people had done. Myst brings out those creative urges in people, and Uru Live would be severly diminished if there was no oppurtunity to move that creativity into a global community.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:18 pm 
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I don't see why some fan made ages being bad is a bad thing. Bad ages only make good cyan made ages look that much better. Also not all ages will require an deep or convincing story. I want to make something like a 2nd Relto that can hold more people so they can relax, enjoy the view, (and play some mini games? not sure if I could put any in.)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:15 pm 
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I think that the people who don't want fan ages in Uru...

... don't have to play them if they don't like them. OK?

Some of the fan-age naysayers are as bad as the fan-age egotists. Each of those groups is trying to impose their own will upon what they think Cyan's worlds should or shouldn't be. From my point of view, Cyan is the ultimate and legal abitrator of their intellectual property and derivatives (aside from legally protected parodies).

Between those who are complaining "Oh noes, Cyan might tell me I can't call my age a real D'ni age! How dares they!" and those bemoaning "Oh noes, Cyan is going to let these third rate hacks make Ages and the quality will be teh suck!", I've really had my fill of negativity.

All we know is that Cyan's current plan is to encourage independent Age Building and that fan Ages will be segregated from official content. That's it! That's all we know. Everything else is up in the air, and arguing about it seems pretty silly to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:38 pm 
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I for one an quite excited about Agebuilding. On a role playing/writing site, I had created (and co-created) some very interesting worlds and I thought one day I would like to share what one particularly close to my heart looks like in my head. A chance to do that with a 3-D environment - and then to let people frolic through it? Beyond what I had imagined. I have some rough sketches now - just you wait until I get my hands on those tools (and finish my thesis so I actually have time to do it!)! :P

*sighs with happiness*

edit --> Oh yeah, and I agree wholeheartedly with Gadren and Marten! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:24 am 
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"Those who claim to be motivated by creative desires, but in fact desire to compete with other Fan Age Makers to get attention for themselves."

Heh. As far as I'm concerned, there is no separation between creativity and ego. Creation is producing something unique to yourself -- something nobody else would have created. People will always identify with their work, will be elated if it is well received, will be disappointed if it is ignored.

That doesn't mean you can't have a healthy attitude towards your work.

(None of this is anything new. We see fan-created Uru stories, fan-created Uru videos, fan-created everything. Some of these things are good, some are weak, some are terrible. There may have been ego-driven flameups in the community, but apparently not disastrous ones.)

I have been vaguely trying to write a "How Uru Live Could Work" post. It hasn't come together (entirely because of my laziness, I assure you. :) But my feeling about fan-created Ages is that they can only help Uru Live.

Age-creation *might* wind up being the biggest draw of Uru Live, long-term -- simply because it's the one part of the Uru structure that isn't limited by Cyan manpower. Am I sure of that? No. But I wouldn't be surprised either.

I hate the attitude that says that quality flows from Them (big corporate entities) to Us (consumers). Whenever technological tools have gotten into the hands of the general audience, the result has been an outpouring of new work. Just in the history of the Web, you can look at HTML design, web comics, Flash animations, videos...

(And yes, most of the outpouring has been junk. That's how it works. You don't solve that by denying people the ability to create; you solve it with *criticism*. In the literary sense: recommendations, awards, discussion, analysis.)

That said, I expect *and hope* that Cyan will keep a clear distinction between their Ages and ours. They are not the arbiters of what's good -- we can decide that ourselves -- but they are the arbiters of what the story-world Uru means.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:32 am 
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belford wrote:
That said, I expect *and hope* that Cyan will keep a clear distinction between their Ages and ours. They are not the arbiters of what's good -- we can decide that ourselves -- but they are the arbiters of what the story-world Uru means.

Okay, shut down this thread, the party's over - that was perfect.

There is a place for variety, and that's what fan-made Ages are all about. You hate them, I like them, you say Poh-Tay-Toe, I say Roo-Tuh-Bay-Guh, that's the Spice of Life. But when it comes to a story, I'd hate to see Uru become Three Sentences At A Time. Uru-Wiki is not something I'd pay money for; a wild riot of Ages is.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:51 am 
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I tried to write a post that would, as my last post in the FIRST thread about this topic did, quiet the argument about fan made ages.

It seems someone thought it would be funny to rustle some feathers and get this frivolous prattle going again.

I can't think of a persuasive argument that would better sum up what we should do about this issue ATM other than what I already wrote in the FIRST thread about this matter. Perhaps not the first paragraph in whole since it partly describes the purpose of the topic, but the first sentence of it, and definately the second paragraph indeed describe my feelings completely on this subject.

BAD wrote:
We do not have enough information to say one way or the other about this topic. The original purpose of this thread was to make the *suggestion* that fan made content be included in Uru Live.

I think we should leave this alone until we have some definitive information about what Cyan is going to do about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:34 am 
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We do know what Cyan thinks of fan made content. They like it. Rand Miller endorsed it in the first exclusive interview with The Cavern Today. He, and by proxy Cyan wants fans to make Ages.

I couldn't agree more.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:29 am 
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ohfortheloveo.........*

Your statement would hold true, Rieuco, IF we were discussing whether Cyan WANTS to do something with fan made ages or not.

We are not discussing that issue.

They have made it obvious they want to use fan made content in some fashion.

The issue we are discussing is how we as the community will be allowed to create new content for Uru Live, and how Cyan plans to implement it.

As we do not know the method, or possibility ATM, of these additions being implemented, we should refrain from argueing about our suppositions and fears.

I sincerly hope we (as a community) can show patience and trust, and wait for Cyan to reveal their plans to us. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:02 pm 
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Cyan checks the ages before making them public so there is no naughty ages, stupid ages ,evil ages and no hacker ages

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:10 pm 
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:mrgreen: The ball really is in Cyan's court - and whatever they rule - us members have no choice but to abide by their decision. If they chose to implement 'fan created Ages' so be it. But as later posts since my last have intimated - there really is no point in dragging the thread out any further - it's a case of - just wait and see what happens. Amen.

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