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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:38 pm 
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Is there any plans for Uru, in any incarnation (and hopefully Uru live!) to include this chipset that seemingly every computer I can use in my house holds? Because I love this game, this community, and this story, and to be seperated from it because we got rid of a much older computer that happened to not have this card seems rather tragic.

I'm sure others have the same, or similiar problems. So I ask again, what work, if any, is being done to accept other video cards?

Ben

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:13 pm 
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I suspect that Bob Zasio feels your pain. Question: Do you have Myst V, and does it work?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm 
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You know, the above two names always require me to take a second look to make sure who is whom. I've always wondered when it would come to this.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:26 pm 
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Marentan, the problem with integrated graphics is that it is not powerful enough. If you wish to run Uru you should look into buying a $30-$80 video card.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:18 pm 
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Yeah, but behold: mine's on a laptop, so not only is it double-unsupported, but it also can't be replaced! Oh, what endless fun. And by fun, I mean endless pain.

Ben

PS Marentan means follower. As in, follower of Yeesha.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:25 pm 
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Shields wrote:
Marentan, the problem with integrated graphics is that it is not powerful enough. If you wish to run Uru you should look into buying a $30-$80 video card.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with this advice in today's world. It was good advice 3 or 4 years ago... but today, it is no longer relevant because an add-in video card is not an option with most laptop computers (as already pointed out by Marentan, who snuck a post in while I was refining this one). You can't stick an upgrade video card into them. And in the United States, laptops outsold desktops in the United States for the calendar month of May, 2005 as part of a growing trend towards mobile computing, so supporting laptops is becoming increasingly important. I'm talking about brand new computers which are sold to consumers as being "Top of the line" - consumers will expect things to work on these computers, no questions asked.

I said this over at Cyan's D'ni Guild forums:
Marten wrote:
If you check the warning on the side of The Path of the Shell, you'll see that it specifically excludes laptop chipsets as being officially supported :/

A *lot* of games these days carry that disclaimer. Game companies just don't want to support laptops. I personally find it to be very frustrating.

And I said the following over at Uru Obsession:
Marten wrote:
Today's on-board video chipsets are getting pretty good, and indeed, they are good enough for most consumers. While you can get better performance and compatibility out of an nVidia or ATI video card, video cards add expense to computers that the average person doesn't want to pay, and that level of performance isn't necessary for the vast majority of tasks performed on home computers. Cyan needs Uru to appeal outside of the "pro gamer" crowd, and that means Cyan needs compatibility outside of the "pro gamer" configuration. Compatibility with on-board chipsets is something that Cyan will need to support with Uru Live.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:36 pm 
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The problem with Intel's onboard cards is often quite simply that they cannot do what most games require them to. It's often not a matter of adding more support, it's a matter of the chipsets themselves being total junk. Uru:CC and EoA support Intel Extreme chipsets, but not Express chipsets or Intel's "graphics controller" chipsets, because they simply fail to do what is necessary to actually run advanced 3D games, and Uru happens to be one.

Dell seems to have gotten a bit better about shipping laptops that at least have Intel GMA 950 cards included, based on a quick look at their website, and as I understand it, Uru Live does support that chipset, as Uru:CC does, as does EoA, and I do recall it being said at Mysterium that CC's minimum requirements were what Cyan was shooting for. Heck, even Apple's new MacBooks (the white and black variety, not the Pro notebooks) have GMA 950 chipsets, so they should be able to run Uru Live, at least in Boot Camp.

However, I do want to point something out. If you buy a computer with the intention of playing games on it, you're going to have to spend more than just the bare minimum. It's a simple fact of the industry that a $299 desktop or a $399 notebook just will not be capable of running games like Uru, let alone something even more advanced. I'm continually annoyed at the fact that Dell pushes systems like those as "do it all" sort of computers, when the most you're going to be able to do with them is check your email, use Word (maybe...), and play Solitaire. Also, the reason most laptop cards aren't often supported is because due to heating problems, manufacturers may cut corners with the cards capabilities, which could impact the game's ability to work. Nobody's saying that the game won't run on a laptop that is sufficiently equipped, it's just possible that, due to differences between the desktop and laptop versions of a given model, it may not work. Heck, it may not even work on a system sufficiently equipped, but that's just one of the joys of gaming :P.

That said, I think most computer manufacturers are upping the ante on their baseline systems to ensure forward compatibility with Windows Vista, which has much higher graphics capabilities than XP requires, so odds are if you buy a decent (but which I mean "costing more than $500") system these days, you're probably covered. But, as always, read the fine print, and if you want a gaming laptop, you'd better be prepared to shell out for it, 'cause they just aren't cheap.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:41 pm 
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First, I want to thank Alahmnat for a well-written counterpoint to my earlier comments. Sadly, I have to step back from my position now... as things aren't as simple as I had presumed.

I sat down and did a little research at Intel's website. What I am about to relate here, made my head hurt. Consider yourself forewarned.

Having a GMA, or "Graphics Media Accelerator", seems to be key for the Express chipsets. And for this reason, it isn't possible to say that "all Intel Express chipsets will work" or "all Intel Express chipsets won't work." Some Express systems have the GMA, and some don't. Intel made things complicated. And that sucks for both Cyan and for consumers.

Here's what should be compatible (Note: "should be" does not mean "is"):

Chipsets in the Extreme Graphics and Extreme Graphics 2 families are not totally DirectX 9 compatible. Officially, they only support up to DirectX 8. We know that Extreme Graphics 1 chipsets have limited compatibility with Complete Chronicles and with Myst V.

Chipsets with Intel® Extreme Graphics include:
* Intel® 845GE Chipset
* Intel® 845GV Chipset
* Intel® 845G Chipset
* Intel® 845GL Chipset

Chipsets with Intel® Extreme Graphics 2 include:
* Intel® 865G Chipset
* Intel® 865GV Chipset
* Intel® 855GM Chipset
* Intel® 855GME Chipset
* Intel® 852GME Chipset

Chipsets with Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 900 should have full DirectX 9 support:
* Intel® 915G Express Chipset
* Intel® 915GV Express Chipset
* Intel® 910GL Express Chipset
* Mobile Intel® 915GM Express Chipset
* Mobile Intel® 915GMS Express Chipset
* Mobile Intel® 910GML Express Chipset

Chipsets with Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 also have full DirectX 9 support:
* Intel® 945G Express Chipset

The very newest chipsets on Intel's site, in the 963 and 965 families, apparently use the spiffy new GMA 3000. These chipsets also should support DirectX 9.

Here's where things get nasty. Not all chipsets in the same family are as capable as each other. The 945G Express listed above, and the 946GZ Express (which uses the GMA 3000) should work... but there are also the 945P Express, 945PL Express, 945GT Express, 945GZ Express, and 946PL Express chipsets, for which there is no GMA included, and Intel makes no DirectX compability claims whatsoever. How's that for suck?

Now I really feel sorry for Zasio. :(

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:09 am 
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:) Well said Alahmnat. I would just like to add - dollar for dollar - you will get more for your money in processing power if you purchase a desktop / tower computer.

Everyone's going for Notebooks these days - not as previously intentioned -i.e. for the commuter on the move - but simply because they are more convenient and do not take up too much space in your bedroom or wherever you use it in your home (they were originally manufactured as portable devices rather than static 'stay at home' devices).

The beauty of a desktop / tower system is when it comes to upgrading they are all so compatible. And the parts are much cheaper. If you have the wrong graphics - you simply change the card out and purchase one that will do the job. It's a different kettle of fish with Notebooks - not only do they cost more - because it's a Notebook - but you are stuck with the graphics that comes part and parcel with the unit. And the upgradeability is usually restricted to increasing the size of the harddrive or internal extended memory which incidentally is far more expensive compared with your desktop.

Serious game players generally stick to desktop units, and there are quite a lot of them that would never ever change their CRT displays for a TFT screen - for one - TFT screens have not yet come up to the same standard when it comes to resolution - most TFT screens are low when it comes to what they call 'dot pitch' about .29 and nearly everyone if not when purchased new - will eventually develop pixel error.

CRT displays, albeit bulky monstrous things have really come down in price - new 19" displays with a dot pitch of as low as .24 (low is good!) go for a song these days.

Just something to think about.

I'm not deriding Notebook gameplayers - many of my friends use them (I personally use one myself - solely for my business), but they had to pay handsomely for a decent one - in essence - nowadays you get what you pay for. Generally if it costs more - it will be a better unit.

If money is tight - forget about the bargain Notebooks and spend your money on a Desktop / Tower system - you will get more of a computer. Easier to upgrade and - this is a biggie! - A lot cheaper in the long run if you have to upgrade the memory, CPU, or graphics adapter.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:33 am 
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My laptop was far more that $399. I should hope that it would be stronger in this field than it appears.

My card also doesn't seem to be listed in your analysis, Marten. I've got a 945GM of the Express chipset family. I'd like to ask if you'd think that would work, but it doesn't anyway, so.

Also, I've been having weird problems with Riven, with saving files and some animations. And that's depressing.

Ben

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:39 am 
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According to Intel's website, the 945GM has a GMA 950. So according to Intel, it's supposed to be DirectX 9 compatible. It may work with Uru Live. I don't know, that is a guess and a hope. See: http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/945gm/index.htm

Anyone that has an Intel chipset can look theirs up here: http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/index.htm

Also, there is another discussion about Intel chipsets here (I didn't notice it before... it snuck up on me!). There seems to be some good discussion and experience there, too.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:43 am 
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If you want to know my symptomes:

For normal, Uru:CC (which is what I bought), the cleft itself is weird, my avvie freaks out every once and a while, the sun is a white rectangle, and whenever I enter the tree, the program crashes and burns. As in, quits.

For UU, I can't even get past the Atrus intro!

Ben

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:22 pm 
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Marentan, the 945 is in Marten's list:

Chipsets with Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 also have full DirectX 9 support:
* Intel® 945G Express Chipset

That's a definite no anyway for URU:CC and UU.

UU supports no Intel onboard graphics chipset, URU:CC only Extreme.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:28 am 
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Marten, Marentan, Marten Maretan...

Well lets hope they don't LOOK the same! :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:46 pm 
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I have a laptop with intel 910/915 express. Uru CC *runs*, but not very well. I have alot of texture corruption. It runs below 30 fps, and I have it on low everything.

Take a look

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Image


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