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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:26 pm 
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DLordofTime wrote:
Breaking a link is very different to there never having been one. Rawa provides a good thinking for why the brothers are still fine after the books are burned: burning a book is just like taking out a page: you're breaking it into many pieces, but it's insanely difficult to put it back together. Maybe that's why the books cease to work: the link has been disabled, not destroyed. This breaks your logical chain, as the link exists, but it's just unusable. We don't actually know anything about the status of the link before the book is written, so who's to say that it's created by the book? Perhaps the link is also pre-existing, and the book merely taps into it? After all, there really is no reason as to why any Age should be uniquely special over all other Ages.


Sorry, but the whole 'trap book' concept has been stripped from canon, it's presumed the brothers were never actually talking out of the books-- and adding the pages was never going to let them out. I think the powers that be, have already pretty much admitted that it made for a good game, but the Art doesn't work that way.

it really seems like you're using something that is already known to violate canon, as an example to shoot down my theory. I don't buy it.

Anyway.... this is really a minor disagreement. Okay... so, best I can say is, I don't think it would be possible to write a linking book to an Age that has no descriptive book---- I STILL believe that, but in the absence of any concrete & convincing proof to settle the issue, I guess we need to drop the issue & agree to disagree.



Still, it doesn't ultimately alter my larger theory: Yahvo could have been an author who wrote the Age of Garternay, linked there, and taught the Art to its inhabitants.

In fact, I'd even ADD to the theory at this point, and suggest that Yahvo may have believed that his writing CREATED Ages--- a belief more common in Garternay and Tehranee--- he may have believed he was the 'creator' of the Ronay people, and claimed as much when he taught them the Art. The Ronay may have come to believe these claims & took him as their God because of the wonders he showed them.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:25 pm 
To be honest, the imagery still works even if you remove trap books. Damages a book disables the link. Burning a book is damaging a book, and is bloomin' difficult to fix.

HarveyMidnight wrote:
I guess we need to drop the issue & agree to disagree.

I had planned to say exactly that to end this argument.

Your Yahvo theory is actually quite interesting. It is indeed very possible that he was some Writer from some other Age. I still prefer the theory that the Art came from the Bah'ro to the Ronay, who then enslaved them with the Tablet. The D'ni then took the Bah'ro with them, and thus history goes as it did.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:05 pm 
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As far as trap books are concerned, I like to think that Atrus is a genius who invented trap books, and therefore has been the only one to use them. (It's also possible that the Ronay/D'ni knew how to create them, but had made it illegal/taboo to even mention their existence.)

Also, according to my knowledge, the Myst series is supposed to be based on Catherine's journals. If not trap books, then what exactly did happen in those journals?

As far as the bahro are concerned: according to Sharper's journal, the bahro enslavement was illegal among the D'ni. Somewhere in there is a passage about how they were kept hidden from the Maintainers in Teledahn.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:28 pm 
By 'Bahro enslavement', I mean the Tablet.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:09 am 
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TOOO wrote:
As far as trap books are concerned, I like to think that Atrus is a genius who invented trap books, and therefore has been the only one to use them.


OOOOooohh...I LIKE this theory!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:26 pm 
Alternatively, he rediscovered how to make them, after the knowledge having been lost for millennia. His journal (don't remember which one, I think the Riven one) mentions that he found a way to make trap books on a book hunt with Gehn, but he was forced to leave it behind. Now, this doesn't say when such a method was invented, nor when it was last used...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:06 am 
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Okay.. something odd happened to me today. I stayed late at work.... and I ran into a friend as I was leaving. We rode the elevator together, but he was getting off on a different floor than me. The building was empty, so we thought it was no big deal to just stand at the elevator, at his floor, leaving the doors open while we finished chatting....

After a few minutes, a WARNING beep went off and the doors began forcing themselves closed! Needless to say, that was the end of the convo...

I'll get into the relevance in a moment...



But I can actually see that maybe the so-called 'trap books' were actually an experiment in intra-Age-communication. Think about Atrus, and his view of the predicament of his sons-- and of his father--- trapped in Ages, but honestly too dangerous as people for anyone to consider visiting them or releasing them.. these situations may very well have been a motive for him to really PUSH the envelope, and create a way to communicate into an Age WITHOUT allowing travel in nor out.

My thought is... during the Myst game, the brothers are actually in the Ages of Spire & Haven fully; they aren't 'trapped in the books'--- but prior to that, Atrus had been trying to find a way to communicate with them.

I have heard that, with the 'linking panel' of a typical linking book, the picture you see is a 'real time' image of the link-in spot. So obviously LIGHT can travel 'backwards' from the Age, to the linking panel.. well, what if sound could do the same? What if someone could stand nearby the link-in point, and you could SEE them there, and talk to them thru the linking book?

Based on that, I could see the idea that the so-called 'trap books' were linking books deliberately corrupted by Atrus, in an attempt to be able to speak with his sons thru them.

If you think of linking as teleportation.--- a wormhole opens when you touch the panel, it safely transports you to the Age, then the wormhole closes. Like an elevator--- ahh, see, my experience above comes into relevance!!!

Well.. suppose you did something crazy like ripped out pages of the linking book just as you TOUCHED the panel? The 'wormhole' might start to open, then 'hang...' --- remaining open.. the wormhole itself becomes trapped in a state of 'mid-link'-- like an elevator when the doors can't close... people can chat back & forth, step back & forth between the doors... but nobody can change floors!!!


Maybe THAT is how Sirrus or Achenar would be able to escape.. put the pages back in the book and MAYBE there's a brief moment where the link finally "connects", solid matter can pass thru... but it's still 'wrecked' enough, after all the time of being unstable, it would allow one of the brothers to actually leap backward thru it-- jump back in before the doors close.... just as the stranger links on into the Age.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:14 am 
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DLordofTime wrote:
Actually, this hypothetical 'first Age' is wherever the Art was first used, whether invented by man or given by Yahvo. There will always be a first Age under your hypothesis. Now tell me, why should there be a first Age? Legends tell that the Art was first given to the Ronay on Garternay. Is this our first Age? It's name is very suggestive. 'Root of the Great Tree'. Why call it the 'Root', if there was one before?


Because it's the 'root' of the D'ni's civilization and, by extension, all their linking books.

It's entirely possible, arguably a statistical certainty, that there are other ages that have developed The Art or things that work similarly to The Art, but because the number of worlds you can write to is literally infinite, they're unlikely to ever randomly link an age containing other people who've discovered The Art (or an age other Art-users have linked to).


non-randomly linking to one, on the other hand, might be possible, depending on how you wrote your link.

We already know you can specifically write "has Humans" into a link, it seems like wouldn't be hard (though it may have been taboo among the d'ni) to write to an Age with People who have all the materials needed to make linking books and a high enough level of cultural development to invent them...


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