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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:07 pm 
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Gor Shoraht

.gor shoraht .gor bigtot
.biv edereet roob tomot
morpah domeren tsotoyon prin
shetenin gormet g’tsahn isyeerin
.ederemah shorahtesh
.ederemah shorahtesh

.gor shoraht .gor bigtot
.tsotoyokh bahreltahnot
yeesha me po’om pahboyen set
gormot gitsah’ontahv pilelet
.oonrayot te vokanom
.oonrayot te vokanom


[Reveal] Spoiler:
Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Alles schläft; einsam wacht
Nur das traute heilige Paar.
Holder Knab’ im lockigten Haar,
Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!

Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Gottes Sohn! O wie lacht
Lieb’ aus deinem göttlichen Mund,
Da schlägt uns die rettende Stund’.
Jesus in deiner Geburt!
Jesus in deiner Geburt!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:04 am 
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It's very beautiful!
I can perceive the melody reading it, I'd like to hear it sung :)

I've read about three stories written in D'ni: "Refenahokh Noahkh" (The Story of Noahkh), "Rehm'lah" (The Lizard), and "Rehtahm" (The Fire). The link I've found (dnilinguist) is broken so it is impossible to download them from there. Does anyone know where to find them?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:41 pm 
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It seems not even the Wayback Machine has a copy; unless someone saved those pages, I guess they’re gone.

RAWA has perhaps played the long game for too long, and many fan creations have been lost because of that. The DLF forums have long since gone offline, and yet sources like the Kadish Note have never been released with a complete translation.

Let’s just hope the planned official D’ni site won’t be too little too late.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:37 pm 
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It's certainly a nice try, although it has several flaws. The word choices are mostly well thought out from the limited selection we have, and it gets the idea across.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Time Peaceful.

time peaceful. time bless. (the -t ending doesn't make sense to me here.)
all rest-they but here ("roob" doesn't make sense here.)
queen watching child-her small ("Morpah" should have just been "mor".)
cherished now and-forever revered.
rest-you peacefully.
rest-you peacefully.

time peaceful. time bless. (That -t again!)
child-of maker-our
laughter from mouth-your bless-us
now safe-it(tion) receive-we. (What the hey is with "gitsah'ontahv"?!)
lord-our in birth-your.
lord-our in birth-your.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:11 pm 
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larryf58 wrote:
<snip>

Well if Larry's going critique this, I must critique his critique. It's only fair, given that I have more experience and ability.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Quote:
time bless. (the -t ending doesn't make sense to me here.)

Nonsense. The correct translation is (approximately, as English doesn't have a natural apparatus to translate the -t derivative) "'blessingful' time" or "time full of blessing". The -t derivative makes perfect sense and is given precedent by shorat, which is used in the previous sentence. bigto is a noun, not a verb.

("roob" doesn't make sense here.)
This is clearly meant to convey "except", which is a perfectly natural extension of "but", and indeed, English does it.

Quote:
("Morpah" should have just been "mor".)

I mostly agree, but would suggest remor to keep the metre.

Quote:
(What the hey is with "gitsah'ontahv"?!)

Yeah, I can't parse this word either.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:21 am 
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Lovely translation, Khree. :) Happy Holidays.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:04 am 
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Thanks to those of you who enjoyed my carol -- and I hope you all are having a Happy Holiday Season!

On the word choices, it is traditional to change the literal meaning of a song in order to preserve the tune -- as anyone familiar with the English or Spanish versions of this German carol will know. I tried to convey the same story with expressions that make sense in Dni.

One word seems to have been difficult to follow. The adjective gitsah means 'safe' so that a derived causative verb would be gitsah'on 'make safe' i.e. 'save'. And the derived noun from this would be gitsah'ontahv 'saving' or 'salvation'.

Shorah


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:38 pm 
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I feel so silly for not realising that, since I even concluded that -on was a causative/fientive suffix.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:12 am 
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Yes, this seems to be the pattern in the verbs zithon and elon derived from the adjectives zith ‘low’ and el ‘high’.

Interestingly, we also have verbs that might be causative but which end in -en rather than -on. Thus bahtsen means ‘(to) map’ and is related to the noun bahtsahnah ‘(a) map’, so that the shared morpheme here is *bahts, perhaps a general word for ‘topography’ or ‘landscape’, as that which cartographers determine and then display in the maps they make. And now we have a meaning for the verb veren ‘pacify, mollify’ which could be a derived causative sense if *ver means something like ‘calm’.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:07 pm 
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In which case, batsana would have a suffix -ana also seen in ti'ana. Could this be another kind of agent noun suffix with highly specialised semantics? Further, the relationship of -on and the putative -en is strikingly similar to -oth (extracted from -aloth) and -(e)th.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:58 pm 
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Certainly a bahtsahnah “tells” the reader about the topography, which could be analogous to a tee’ahnah telling a story.

I also agree with Kath about the parallel among the different alternations of e ~ o that we know about in D’ni. One difference between elonem rebah’ro ‘you elevate the Bahro’ and verenem rebah’ro ‘you pacify the Bahro’ is that in the first case something is happening to the Bahro but they are not necessarily doing anything themselves, while in the second case there is an implication that what you do induces them to behave differently.

It also occurred to me as I thought about these verbs that a causative, in the broadest linguistic sense, is a verb with increased valency, i.e. it entails one more constituent than the corresponding non-causative verb. Thus in the non-causative Aitrus eats a meat-roll the verb has 2 constituents, while in the corresponding causative Jerahl feeds Aitrus a meat-roll there are 3 constituents. This suggests that the homophony between the derivational suffixes -en ~ -on and the pronominal suffixes -en ~ -on might not be completely accidental, since etymologically markers of valency might well be relicts of pronouns.

We can think of the difference between the pronouns along the lines of -em ‘you do’, -en ‘someone does’, etc. vs. -om ‘you have’, -on ‘someone has’, etc. — taygahnem = ‘love you do’ = “you love” ~ taygahnom = ‘love you have’ = “your love”; taygahnen = ‘love someone does’ = “he/she loves” ~ taygahnon = ‘love someone has’ = “his/her love.” The derivational suffixes have the additional property of converting an attribute into a verb, but the distinction in semantics is parallel: verenem = ‘calm(ness) someone does you do’ = ‘you cause someone to act calm’ = “you pacify” vs. elonem = ‘high(ness) someone has you do’ = ‘you cause someone to be high’ = “you elevate.”

Shorah


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