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 Post subject: The Guild of Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:21 am 
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Formerly "The Guild of Authors" - EDITED NAME OF THREAD AND CHANGED NAME OF GUILD

OK so now we have the five Guilds that are supported by Cyan, and lots of discussion is going around about the structures of the Guilds and how people can take part. This is all very cool. But Cyan has stated that this is a first step and I am assuming that if all goes well, more Guilds will be added in the future. With that in mind, I am proposing the formation of the Guild Of Authors.

There are a lot of creative people in the Uru community, but not all of them are technical or artistic in a graphic sense. Some of them are all about concepts and ideas. They may be great storytellers, plotters, dialogue specialists, concept originators, etc. The idea of the Guild Of Authors is to bring all creative ideas people, particularly writers (words, not Ages), together in one place. The ultimate goals of the Guild would be:

1. To pool ideas and work on collaborative projects within the Guild
2. To collaborate on projects with other Guilds
3. To be a source of concepts/ideas for all other Guilds, the community as a whole, and even Cyan (if they're feelin' dry).
4. To have a really good time talking about all this stuff!

The Guild would certainly not exclude people who are technical and artistic. Far from it (I am quite technical myself)! It's just that the focus of the Guild should be on ideas, not necessarily the technical implementation of them. By concentrating all the conceptual talent in one place, we can become a good source for the community at large. Other Guilds can utilise our talents, and we theirs. And it seems to me that that's the way a real Guild system should work.

I can site one solid example for the need for this Guild (although there are many): I have noticed in various threads that a number of ideas people have attempted to get involved with The Guild Of Writers only to be told they need to learn Blender and Python. Well it's cool that the GOW are concentrating on mastering the technologies and the code for Age creation. That's what they SHOULD be doing. But where do the ideas people go? Should they really have to be learning a programming language and a 3D modeling program just because they want to contribute concepts and ideas to the creation of an Age? No, they shouldn't, and that's where the GOA would come in. (I am not suggesting that the GOA would just be about Age creation. This is just an example.)

So if you are a writer, concept originator, visionary or ideas person, the Guild Of Authors could be the place for you.

I've got many ideas for the Guild, but for now I think I should shut up and hear what you all have to say. :wink:

I propose, for anyone who is interested, that we have a meeting within the next week sometime to discuss the possibilities. I won't propose a time or place yet until I see how popular the idea is, lol.

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Last edited by subumbra on Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:27 pm 
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Guild of Artists (which was going to involve creative writing) would be interested in working closely with Authors if you get it going.

Writing is a difficult one, you have Writers of ages who belong in the Guild of Writers, you have writers of journals etc which would probably belong in the Guild of Historians (maybe Archivists) then creative writers. A lot of area's to tackle. If all of those belonged to one guild then working in tandem with Guild of Writers/Historians etc would be cool.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:37 pm 
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my two cents or less,
keep the number of Guilds low, combine concepts and areas of application, and keep them specific for what the name stands for.

The Guild of Artists would apply, as I am one, to visual artists, i would think, as writing is a written or digital craft as opposed to paintings, drawings,sculptures, crafting ages design wise, etc. which are analog or visiual only.

But hey, only thoughts based on one cup of coffee early in the day, so mostly just thoughts. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:05 pm 
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The Guild of Writers needs good authors as well. We need people to write background stories, journals and create puzzles for the ages. I ask you to consider either joining the GoWriters or GoArtists.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:11 pm 
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CrisGer wrote:
The Guild of Artists would apply, as I am one, to visual artists, i would think, as writing is a written or digital craft as opposed to paintings, drawings,sculptures, crafting ages design wise, etc. which are analog or visiual only.


IMHO a Guild of Artists should apply to *all* arts: writers, painters, illustrators, musicians, crafters whatever. If you want to make a guild for visual arts only, don't call it Guild of Artists.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:09 pm 
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Agreed Ian.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:07 am 
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It seems that people are getting hung up on the name, which I'm beginning to think was not a good choice on my part. I also don't seem to have gotten my point across very well, so I'll try again:

The point of this Guild is ideas, NOT writing. It is about content creators/originators - people who invent stuff, thinkers and visionaries. Often this might come in the form of writing but it is not about that. The Guild of Historians, for example, may write, but they do not necessarily originate content, being more of a research and transcribing outfit.

I am therefore changing the name of the Guild to the much more accurate, Guild of Ideas, unless someone has a better name.

I feel there is a need for this Guild, because I see a need to separate ideas and concepts from their execution. There is no reason why members of this Guild could not also be in other Guilds. But the concept of having all the thinkers and originators in one place is a solid one, I think. In this way the GoIdeas could stand as a central source for coordinating projects between Guilds. It could also be a repository for creative projects looking for execution. This might sound a bit lofty, but I'm just thinking out loud here

A lot of the Guilds seem to be too broad in their scope. If the GoArtists indeed represents ALL of the arts, that's a lot of stuff, IMO, to be represented by one Guild. It really depends on whether people actually want to DO anything in these Guilds, or just be a member so they can wear a t-shirt. If we want to do stuff, then it seems to me that the Guilds need to be specific in their purpose. Note that all five Guilds that have been supported by Cyan are VERY specific in their purpose and function.

The GoIdeas would be very specific in it's function of pooling ideas in one place where the community could access them. Maybe this idea is too esoteric to some, but I think it warrants further discussion.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:02 am 
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I actually started up a Guild of Storytellers a while back, with the same intentions. I haven't offically annouced it primarly because I wanted to get some resources up first. But if your serious about this Im willing to work together to build something.

The goal of my guild was to bring explorers personal stories to the cavern, weather they be make believe or based in some fact. It is important though that it doesn't interfere with the core developer story that is running. These are more interpersonal stories which in my hopes affect a few people. The idea is to bring more content into the cavern without causeing confusion. Give explorers more to do between episodes and maybe even have stories that make people think.

I have a great deal of Ideas, and I always welcome other peoples ideas. But I prefer my Guild title. I think it speaks to my goal and my basic principal for it.

Your welcome to disscuss it with me in game or here as a PM. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:54 am 
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I just want to say to anyone who is interested in The Guild of Ideas, that I have NOT given up on it!

It's a transitional period at the moment with the Guilds and the community, so I have been diligently reading ALL the Guild posts to judge the climate and come up with the best way to proceed with the GoI.

I still believe strongly in this Guild and feel that there is a place for it in the community. I've got lot's of new ideas which I will post soon when I have more time. Anyone who is interested, please post your ideas for the Guild and keep this thread alive! :)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:26 am 
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I have been attending the guild of writers meetings and I don't think I really fit there. I have ideas and have even started an age with locations and descriptions and a puzzle, but I do not want to learn a program so that I can get it into URU. In fact, I tried downloading Python and for some reason I cannot get it to even work on my computer.
If you get this guild going perhaps I would fit better there. KI-7252078


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 Post subject: additional thought
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:49 pm 
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As I said I have ideas just not the technical ability to implement them. Unfortunately, I have tried to get some help from members of the Guild of Writers and have been sent to websites so that I can make my own age. I don't want to do this and still the downloads do not work on my computer. If you hear of a team or a few individuals looking for ideas, please send them my way.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:13 pm 
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I, too, cannot seem to find exactly my place in one of the Guilds. The closest would be Cartographers, but then again no. Going around and measuring things... I am an artist and graphic designer, a musician (I record everything on my computer now) and I love to work on ideas and not to necessarily implement them.
Although I don't have a better name to propose at the moment, Guild of Ideas doesn't seem to quit fit the purpose of the Guild.

Quote:
In this way the GoIdeas could stand as a central source for coordinating projects between Guilds.

Personnally, I don't think other Guilds would do that... and if we're all about ideas and concepts, coordination is not our objective.

IMO, I worry that the Guild would mirror the other Guilds and do the same work in the end. For example: a great idea for a storyline gets proposed and developed. What happens to it then? Does it go the the Guild of writers to be written? Do the plans for the age get drawn by the Cartographers? I think that the people who invent these things would want the do it themselves. Thus the mirroring of Guilds.

Maybe the guild should be called the Guild of Proposers.

Not a bad idea subumbra, for sure. Just need some defining of what exactly it will do and if you have any new ideas, please post them.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:41 am 
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The reason for proposing this Guild is that, like others, I find that none of the five official Guilds cater to my personal strengths. Similarly I find a lot of the unofficial Guilds to be too broad in scope to be of any use to the community. However, I have not posted much since suggesting the GoI because I wanted to let the the excitement die down about the 5 official Guilds to the point where people start thinking about and focussing on the "next wave". This is not likely to happen for a while though, as the next episode will introduce the Guild pubs that will give the 5 Guilds an actual "physical" place in the game. This is likely to motivate a lot of the community to want to be part of those Guilds even if they have nothing to contribute.

If we think there is justification for the GoI, we will need to not be discouraged by the general since of apathy we are likely to encounter – after all, we won't have our own pub. :wink: Generally people are just going to tell us to join one of the other Guilds, as they already have. We need to think of how we can make this Guild useful to the community (so that Cyan will consider us for the next batch of official Guilds), while showcasing the talents of our members. How do we do this? We need to get organised, with some practical goals. At the moment the concept of the GoI seems a bit ethereal, so here are a few concrete ideas:

Purpose

To take a more proactive approach towards the development of MOUL on a conceptual level. In other words, to assist with the development of the game, rather than the playing of it. While essentially OOC Guild, I see the GoI fitting in about the same space as the Guild of Writers.

To this end, creating a repository in which ideas pertaining to MOUL would be presented in a tangible, concrete and thought-through fashion. This would NOT be a suggestion box, like the MOUL "Suggestions" forum. These would be fully realised ideas and their possible application/implementation, taking into consideration the community benefits and implications therein. This could be a source for Cyan as well as the community (they are short-staffed, and IMHO, could occasionally use help on the conceptual side). Some possible categories (please don't flame me about the examples below. They're EXAMPLES!):

1. General Game Concepts - Ideas for improving MOUL on a conceptual level. For example: How can the Nexus be changed to be more effective, how to handle instances more elegantly, better help for newbies ingame, etc. All of these ideas and their implementation would be worked out completely, possibly with flow charts and statistics showing probable impact on the game.

2. Age Concepts - Not general ideas like "A sunny age with long spire-like mountains and bat-winged creatures flying around", but full-fledged detailed walkthroughs of entire ages, including purpose, history and possibly, maps and diagrams (we could work with the GoC on this). In my mind this does not conflict with the Guild of Writers, whose purpose is the actual physical building of ages. The GoW can access our ideas and/or work with us if they wish, or not.

3. Puzzle Concepts - Fully realised and documented puzzles with diagrams and explanation of purpose. If the puzzle is attached to a specific age, then an explanation of how the puzzle fits in conceptually to the age as a whole. If the puzzle is independent of age, the a brief description of what type of age it would be suitable for.

4. Character and Plot Concepts - The Holy Grail for me. How can the game progress to give the most value for Explorers, prompt further popularity, and still be within the reach of Cyan's limited resources. For me it's not about frequency of new age releases, but rather about how to make MOUL feel like a living, breathing, moving world, ALL of the time. This comes down to character and plot, and how involved these things make the Explorer feel, again, ALL of the time, not just during episodes. There is an enormous amount we can contribute to this, IMO. For those writers and storytellers among us, this is where we can shine.

5. Games and Social Activities Concepts - This one speaks for itself.

The idea is not to implement these concepts, but to "map" them out in a detailed and considered manner that can be perused and completely understood by others.

Repository

A website to house these ideas. I would stress that I don't see the site as forum for discussing the MERIT of ideas – this is what all the other forums associated with the game are for. Discussion on the GoI site would discuss the possibilities and methods for implementing the ideas.

Functions

To contribute concepts to the repository.

To keep our ears to the wall for good ideas floating around, and develop them into coherent, documented concepts.

To work with other Guilds whenever possible.

To make it known to Explorers at large that the Repository exists, and that ALL are welcome to contribute.

To direct Explorers to the Repository when ideas come up that already exist in well developed form on the site.

To not get caught up in pointless "democratic" functions like voting, which only consume time (lots of it) and result in flame wars and petty behaviour.

To be a practical Guild, above all else, contributing a useful source to the community.


Obviously, how to implement all of this stuff needs to be discussed, but these are my basic ideas for the Guild. To get the ball rolling I am proposing a

Preliminary Meeeting of The Guild of Ideas

Sunday, August 26th, 12:00 pm Cavern Time (7:00 pm GMT, you guys figure out the rest)

Uru Obsession's Eder Tsogal

All are welcome!



I know it's rather soon, but I'd like to do it on the weekend so more people can make it. But if during the week is more convenient, please say so. I'd like to get the meeting in before the next epidode though, which probably rules out the following weekend.

Sorry for the massive post. Please voice your opinions. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:01 pm 
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Too bad I can't make it this weekend. :0(

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 Post subject: [GoMa] Group
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:22 pm 
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Don't know if I will be able to make it, but I know I am going to try.

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