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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:36 pm 

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 5:22 pm
Posts: 1814
Location: California
The GoC and All Guilds meetings were scheduled on the same day a couple of hours apart... for me it was one or the other...

The Guild of Cartographers met at noon. I have attached a chat log of the meeting. This log is edited for readability. Questions and responses are rearranged to thread the conversation. So, this is not an exact chronological listing.

Aiden is the Grand Master of the Guild of Cartographers and called the meeting.
Those attending were;

    Aiden – Grand Master
    Julie the Tall Terror
    Parker Solem-Sevier

Please PM me if I missed you.

[spoiler]Aiden: Well, first off let me welcome you all here and say thank you for coming. Whether you've been with the guild for a while or are just showing up to satisfy your curiosity we're glad you're here.
Aiden: The Guild of Cartographers has been around for some time in various forms. We have an exciting opportunity coming up that may allow us to have a significant impact on the cavern, and I hope you're as excited as I am.
Aiden: With that, it's great to see so many new faces. As the DRC moves closer and closer to restoring the Guild system we will be in a position to have a more direct hand in the restoration effort.
Aiden: As new Ages become available the demand for accurate maps will rise. It will be up to us to accept this challenge with enthusiasm!
From Dave1971 in The Cartographers' Pub: Kyashii, you are missing the meeting of the Cartographers.
Aiden: Furthermore, as the Guild of Writers gets more organized we may be able to work alongside them and map out the ages that they produce.
Aiden: Maybe even before they are available to the general public.
Aiden: Now, I know some of you are a bit daunted by the amount of work that goes into making a map.
Aiden: It is time-consuming and can be challenging, but one of the key things we try to stress about the Guild is that we are not a Guild of deadlines. We want you to take all the time you need to learn or create or just find a niche in the guild where you can be happy and productive.
Prometheus: Good to hear.
Aiden: Now, I do want to mention that we do not know what form the Guilds will take in the future.
Aiden: It is a real possibility that everything may change. Our hope is that the DRC will respect what we've built so far and allow us to continue. But with new responsibilities comes new challenges, so keep an open mind about the changes taking place.
Dave1971: Also, we don't know if the DRC already has guidelines for the guilds.
Nalates: Do we really care what the DRC plans?
Dave1971: Yes, the affect they the Cavern like everyone else.
Erik: Well, they gave us these Pubs, it would be very rude to ignore their further wishes if we use this Pub
Nalates: We gave them back the Guild...
Nalates: Way before we got a meeting place
rebus: they can still decide
Aiden: Well, while they don't dictate what we can and cannot do, they may choose to establish a Guild of their own, separate from ours if they do not see us as suitable to their needs.
Nalates: Really. We are the only ones doing the work (fans). I doubt they will ignore us and go their way.
Aiden: Hopefully there will be give and take on both sides.
Erik: I think the DRC will mainly accommodate us with tools and such ... like giving us a Pub, perhaps they are going to give us other tools as well.
Erik: They want to stimulate the Guilds, they won't do anything that we don't like, I think ;-)
Nalates: Erik is right. Tools are coming.
Aiden: I just want everyone to understand--especially those who are new, that things may change and to be patient and steadfast. No matter what happens we will continue to make maps, that is certain.
Nalates: No matter what happens we will have fun.
Aiden: I don't like to assume what the DRC will or will not do.
rebus: Agree:)
Aiden: Exactly.
Erik: Well, we'll find out anyway :)
Nalates: True

Aiden: Now, let's open up the floor, does anyone have any questions about anything to do with the guild?
Irmin: Is there a forum or place where we can find more information?
Nalates: Yes
Irmin: Good. :)
Nalates: Uru Obsession has one
Nalates: There is a section dedicated to the GoC
Aiden: Yes, there is. We use our own special section in the Uru Obsession forums.
Irmin: A special section?
Nalates: Yes
Aiden: You can find it by clicking on the Forum link from

Erik wants to ask a question...
Aiden: Erik, what is your question?
Erik: Well, I have read a lot about the "male running stride", but I still don't get how you measure those strides...
Erik: I actually feel a bit stupid about it, but I really can't figure it out :P
Irmin: Thanks for the info.
Erik: Could one of you explain it to me? Or even demonstrate?
Nalates: Don't feel silly.
Nalates: One counts the steps.
Erik: So, you count every step you take ... both feet? Or one foot?
Nalates: I tend to count only what the right foot does and double it.
Aiden: Well, there's a couple of different ways we figured that out. Using markers, KI coordinates, and known distances.
Irmin: In Minkata, you only have steps or time.
rebus streches out her ears, eager to learn
Nalates: Minkata is so large time is easier.
Irmin: Oh, and you can set markers, of course.
Nalates: The conversions to distance are for one stride/step.
Aiden: So all you need to do is count the steps between points and then multiply that by 6 and you've got your distance.
Aiden: Every footfall running is about 6 feet.
Julie the Tall Terror: The women's stride is a decimal, so we stick with guy’s
Nalates: There are more specific conversions on the Tech Data site.
Erik: Okay, thanks
Prometheus: Your tool for measuring distances doesn't really matter, just so long as you are consistent.
Nalates: Prome is right
Julie the Tall Terror: And so long as you don't mind doing math to convert it.

Aiden: Any other questions?
Irmin: Is that distance the same for male and female avatars?
Aiden: No, Irmin, it is not.
Nalates: Male and female are different.
Aiden: Females take smaller steps.
Junee: They run at the same speed, but female avatars use more steps doing so
Julie the Tall Terror: I have a spare male avatar for measuring. It’s easier than doing the math. lol
Irmin: Cool, this is great info.
Erik is glad he is a guy :P
rebus: Great idea Julie:)
Irmin: Well, I am really a woman, but I wanted to experience what male avatars are like.
Prometheus wants to ask a question...
Aiden: Prometheus? What's up?
Prometheus: I have seen some old maps that tried to superimpose a rectangular grid onto maps of the Cavern. What was the rationale for doing this? Is this still the prefered way of mapping the Cavern?
Nalates: There is a history to that...
Nalates: The D'ni system used angle and distance.
Nalates: That made it hard to draw for some.
Nalates: In CAD systems it was easier to use rectangular systems
Prometheus: I see.
Nalates: So, we did a conversion from polar, angle/dist to North and east
Nalates: It was just to make it easier in a computer or Photoshop
Nalates: On the Tech Data site I built in a polar to rectangular converter.
Prometheus: Okay. Thanks, Nalates.
Aiden: There is no real preferred look to guild maps. Each cartographer can use whatever style they're comfortable with, so long as the map is legible and features no solutions.
Irmin: Thanks, Nalates.

From Aiden in The Cartographers' Pub: Anyone else?
Nalates: While we are here, it is probably a good idea to buddy up, add people to our[buddy] list.
Aiden: Okay, well all that's left on the Agenda is a group photo and then a basic mapping tutorial for whomever is interested.

Prometheus: I suppose I might ask this: the Maintainer's "seals", or whatever they are, the small round objects you occasionally see on the floors of different Ages...
Aiden: Indeed.
Nalates: I can tell you what was thought originally. But I don't think we really know yet.
Prometheus: ... do we know if those might someday be activated by the DRC so that the KI's coordinate system might work in other Ages? (making some assumptions about what they are used for here)
Nalates: We thought these would be the 0,0 point in each age.
Aiden nods.
Irmin: Interesting.
Nalates: We thought the KI would register coords off that maintainer's mark within the age.
Nalates: We only had coords in the KI for a little while in ‘04
Nalates: Which is when the speculation started.
Nalates: We had hopes.
Dave1971: I don't think the GZ system works in other Ages.
Aiden: It does, actually. In a round about way.
Erik: Perhaps ... (I heard that during closed beta in 2002 or something there were indeed coords in every Age and the maintainer mark was 0)
Irmin: I puzzled over them in the gardens.
Prometheus: This would make mapping much easier, I think.
Prometheus: No official word though?
Nalates: Not really. We are still experimenting and hoping
Aiden: Using KI coordinates is unfortunately still unreliable for mapping use.
Prometheus: Is that so? I had been planning on using them for the Cavern.
Aiden: Well, there are only whole numbers, so there's a wide margin for error.
Erik nods his head
Nalates: One problem with coords in the KI is they only change after you move [a full] shahfee. [shahfee being the D’ni word for span – 13-1/3ft]
Erik: If you walk just a few steps, you could still have the same coordinates
Prometheus: True.
Irmin: There are no coordinates in the Nexus at this time. Maybe when that comes, the coordinates will be more detailed.
Dave1971: Well, I don't have any tools to map, but I guess I could do something like QA.
Aiden: You could submit a hand-drawn map on graph paper if you wanted to. Super Photoshop skillz are not required.
Nalates: I got spoiled using Blender to map.
Aiden: Heh.
Prometheus: There are several open-source tools listed on the Guild site I believe
Aiden: And I'm working on expanding that.
Erik: I hope so, Irmin
Nalates: Blender is a free program. SO, if you want to play with 3D it is a great start.
Aiden: Yes, it is.
Nalates: Also, it is pretty powerful.
Aiden: And it has a great tutorial as well.
Erik: and very difficult o.O
Prometheus starts to laugh
Nalates: COBBS has the info on using Blender and PRPExplorer plugin.
Aiden: Which, sadly, does not work with the current ages.
Nalates: The gotcha is that you must have the old CD Uru to see the ages.
Aiden nods.
Nalates: Actually several of the Myst games on CD and be edited with Blender.
Nalates: Supposed to be can be not and be
Irmin: This is a bit too complicated for me at this time.

Gadren wants to ask a question...
Aiden: One other thing--there is a Guild System meeting later today in the Watchers' Pub at 2pm. I'm going to try to be there, and I encourage you guys to attend as well. I'm not sure what will come out of it but being active can never be a bad thing.
Aiden: Gadren, your question?
Gadren: I just wanted to point out that for those who feel that all this surveying is too complicated for them, I did a series of surveys for a lot of the old Ages. They can be easily turned into fancy maps with Photoshop. :)
Aiden nod
Gadren: People can help in different ways. :)
Nalates: Gadren, I remember those. They are great. Are they still up and where?
Aiden: Indeed. They are a great resource. I'm even using one right now for my Kadish Forest map.
Gadren: Yes, they're still up, in a thread at the GoC's subforum at the Uru Obsession forums
Nalates: Way cool
Erik: I'm trying to make a Pellet Silo map from one of your surveys :)
Aiden: There's a link to them from the MOUL Guilds Forum.
Julie the Tall Terror: Absolutely! I've used Gadren's surveys too.
Aiden: In the Cartographers' Quick Resource thread.
rebus: Seems I have a lot of fun ahead of me :)

Aiden: Okay, if there are no other questions, why don't we all line up in front of the imager for a picture and then those who are interested can come with me for a mapping class.
Irmin: Sounds great!
rebus: I'm really interested in that Aiden
Chelane: how about in front of the maps on the wall?
Error: Don't know how to '/keel'
Prometheus nods his head
Aiden: Oh, I like that too. Let's do that.
Irmin: On top of the imager?
Aiden: Nah, in front of the guild symbol.
Prometheus: Too much clutter on the imager I think.
Irmin: This looks great!
Nalates: Who is taking the pic? We need Aiden in it.
Prometheus: Who has to miss being in the picture to take it? :-(
rebus: lets make two pics then
Aiden: I think I can take it while I'm in it...
Erik: I hope so
Prometheus: Oh you're right Aiden!
Dave1971: we could have some ppl stand on the bench
Parker Solem-Sevier: how about we call someone else to take it
Aiden: hmm... apparently I can't.
Nalates: Gadren, come on in...
Prometheus: I can get it Aiden.
Prometheus: An angled shot anyway.
Aiden: Okay, we'll try both. I'll take one out here and then I'll come back and you take yours
Prometheus: Alright
Aiden: Here we go.

Chat log ends

I had to leave after the group picture. Others went with Aiden for a surveying demonstration. See the chat log on UO for more.

Nalates - GoC - 418 - MOULa I: Nal KI#00 083 543, MOULa II: KI#00 583 875Nalates 111451 - Second Life: Nalates Urriah
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