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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:11 pm
Posts: 10
This post will be updated to reflect the latest information regarding Guild System Meetings.

These meetings are aimed at promoting communication and cooperation between the various Guilds. Members of every Guild (or non-Guild) are emphatically encouraged to participate, as are people not affiliated with a Guild.

The meetings are now planned to occur once a month. The 1st Saturday of a month will be the preferred day to hold a meeting, but may be changed so as not to conflict with the times that Episodes are running.

____________________________________________

Next Scheduled Meeting:

Saturday
December 1st, 2007
Kirel's Community Room
1400 KI time (4pm EST, 8pm GMT)

____________________________________________


Next Meeting's Agenda:

+ Reviewing Progress
+ How to deal with Pre-guilds, Societies, and Guild-subgroups
____________________________________________

Latest Past Meeting:

11/10/07
Agenda:
+ Discussing Exodus, and it's ramifications for the Guilds.
+ Interconnection of resources/websites for Guild contributions (DPWR, BoC, GoA)
Conclusion:
+ Guild Newsletters
+ Improve Guild Websites
+ Guild Representatives
10/13/07
09/27/07


____________________________________________


Last edited by JulyFT on Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:35 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:11 pm
Posts: 10
Meeting Archive:
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_________________________

11/10/07

[spoiler=Chat log]
(11/10 15:55:24) Chat.log started...
(11/10 15:55:25) Arrhae: And no more easily climbing of the wedges
(11/10 15:55:29) [ Auto Shout Enabled ]
(11/10 15:55:33) ChaosSong played HL2 over and over and over again ;)
(11/10 15:55:44) Arrhae played Portal over and over and over again
(11/10 15:55:53) Nah'dneb did too
(11/10 15:55:55) JulyForToday: climbing of wedges?.. O.o
(11/10 15:55:56) Nah'dneb: it's a triumph.
(11/10 15:56:00) Nah'dneb: <.<
(11/10 15:56:08) JulyForToday: Ive yet to play Portal or Episode 2
(11/10 15:56:12) Arrhae: There's lots of wedge climbing in my machine
(11/10 15:56:16) JulyForToday: looking forward to it
(11/10 15:56:36) JulyForToday: oh.. I pretty much ignore Jalak.. never really played with it much
(11/10 15:56:38) Lynnutte: shorah Arrhae
(11/10 15:56:41) Arrhae waves hello
(11/10 15:56:57) OnslaughtQ waves hello
(11/10 15:56:58) JulyForToday: I hate accidently acctivating a pillar when I didnt mean to
(11/10 15:57:13) Nah'dneb: that's why you move with the arrow keys while in Jalak
(11/10 15:57:20) ChaosSong nods
(11/10 15:57:34) Arrhae: I'm strange... I move with the mouse in Jalak, but don't have issues raising/lowering pillars
(11/10 15:57:43) Nah'dneb shrugs
(11/10 15:57:52) Nah'dneb: just good at avoiding them, I guess.
(11/10 15:57:56) Arrhae: Yup
(11/10 15:58:16) Arrhae: And if you hold down the right button first, before the left, you won't activate pillars
(11/10 15:58:29) JulyForToday: ah.. didn't know that
(11/10 15:58:32) Nah'dneb: ah yes, I do that a lot too
(11/10 15:58:47) Simon_Bitdiddle: So, when's the meeting going to start? :)
(11/10 15:59:03) To Captain Adventure: Hey, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, I networked 6-ed... my connection wouldn't work
(11/10 15:59:06) Arrhae randomly wandered in, and has no idea about any meeting :D
(11/10 15:59:25) JulyForToday: In few more minutes
(11/10 15:59:28) JulyForToday: Not 1400 yet
(11/10 15:59:39) Arrhae: What's the meeting about?
(11/10 15:59:47) JulyForToday: plus, I like to check if we have a person from each guild..
(11/10 15:59:50) Nah'dneb: "The Guild System"
(11/10 15:59:53) JulyForToday: yep
(11/10 16:00:02) Simon_Bitdiddle: We've got some folks from the GoWriters. :)
(11/10 16:00:08) ChaosSong: :)
(11/10 16:00:13) JulyForToday: always do :D
(11/10 16:00:19) JulyForToday: this is the 3rd meeting so far
(11/10 16:00:43) Simon_Bitdiddle: Anyone from the Maintainers?
(11/10 16:00:47) JulyForToday: And i apologize if I should randomly leave at any point. My connection has issues..
(11/10 16:00:48) Arrhae: I should get off of my cone then, since I don't think I'll have anything to do with the meeting :)
(11/10 16:01:07) Nah'dneb: waiit... cones have meeting significance?
(11/10 16:01:16) JulyForToday: Not really...
(11/10 16:01:17) Aaron Alexander: There are a bunch of maintainers in cavern for a photo shoot. Presumably they will be showing up here at some point. :)
(11/10 16:01:18) Arrhae: Well, the cone is right by the podium
(11/10 16:01:19) Simon_Bitdiddle: Yeah, we don't have soapboxes.
(11/10 16:01:31) Simon_Bitdiddle knocks Nah'dneb off his cone!
(11/10 16:01:38) Nah'dneb stands on a soap cone
(11/10 16:01:42) Nah'dneb: Simon FAILS
(11/10 16:01:42) Arrhae laughs
(11/10 16:01:43) ChaosSong: hah
(11/10 16:01:51) OnslaughtQ: hehe
(11/10 16:01:52) Simon_Bitdiddle: WOT A LOAD OF RUBBISH!
(11/10 16:01:54) Simon_Bitdiddle is a bit upset...
(11/10 16:02:00) Nah'dneb laughs
(11/10 16:02:19) JulyForToday: So far the only 'format' these meetings have is someone moderates (leads the meeting) and we just talk about things
(11/10 16:02:42) JulyForToday: and so far I've been the moderator.. although I wouldn't mind if someone else took that post :)
(11/10 16:02:49) Alahmnat: Shorah all. Sorry I'm late.
(11/10 16:03:02) JulyForToday: Its alright Alahmnant :)
(11/10 16:03:06) Simon_Bitdiddle: Better late than never.
(11/10 16:03:16) Alahmnat: Heh, indeed
(11/10 16:03:49) JulyForToday: Actually, your two minutes early :)
(11/10 16:03:50) Simon_Bitdiddle: So, what guilds are in attendance so far?
(11/10 16:04:06) Alahmnat: Archivists here
(11/10 16:04:08) JulyForToday: anyone from GoMa?..
(11/10 16:04:11) ChaosSong: i see a messenger
(11/10 16:04:15) T.S: guess i will stay here :-)
(11/10 16:04:38) OnslaughtQ: I can't honestly speak for the GoW since I only joined OOC two days okay and only joined the guild last night
(11/10 16:04:40) Simon_Bitdiddle: GoWri REPRESENT! *flashes D'ni Gangsigns*
(11/10 16:04:51) Arrhae laughs
(11/10 16:05:05) Alahmnat: Yo yo ;)
(11/10 16:05:06) Nah'dneb: ...
(11/10 16:05:09) JulyForToday: we have a least 4 here from GoW :)
(11/10 16:05:16) ChaosSong: heh
(11/10 16:05:20) Nah'dneb: Don't count me as a GoW
(11/10 16:05:29) Simon_Bitdiddle: Oh, we don't.
(11/10 16:05:30) Nah'dneb: I just do stuff in their forums. <.<
(11/10 16:05:55) Nah'dneb returns to staring intently at his KI
(11/10 16:06:11) ChaosSong: nad is here for guild of Leprechans I guess then
(11/10 16:06:43) Simon_Bitdiddle: He represents the Guild of Losers. D:<
(11/10 16:06:47) JulyForToday: That is something I would actually like to discuss today... Appointing actual representatives from each guild. People who could work with the other guilds to ensure comminication.. not that there isn't already such communication
(11/10 16:07:08) Nah'dneb does not hear Simon talking.
(11/10 16:07:22) Arrhae: I represent the Guild of Random People Who Sneak Into Guild Meetings :D
(11/10 16:07:27) Aaron Alexander grins
(11/10 16:07:29) Nah'dneb: welcome!
(11/10 16:07:36) Simon_Bitdiddle: AKA, the Guild of Peanut Gallery. :D
(11/10 16:07:45) Arrhae nods her head
(11/10 16:07:57) ChaosSong: I nominate JFT to represent Writers
(11/10 16:08:08) Alahmnat: Do I get to be representative by default? ;)
(11/10 16:08:20) JulyForToday: Each guild would have to figure out who they would want talking for them, how many, etc.. Like GoC already has a Grand Master, and he pretty much speaks for them
(11/10 16:08:23) Simon_Bitdiddle: Sure, the man is darn by effort. :D
(11/10 16:09:06) JulyForToday: Alahmnat> you'd have to ask the other archivisits, but I'm sure your the best man for the job :)
(11/10 16:09:59) Simon_Bitdiddle: I'm all for JFT being the liason between the GoWri and the Guilds.
(11/10 16:10:11) Alahmnat makes a note to start a topic on this when the meeting's over
(11/10 16:10:25) JulyForToday: The big thing is, representatives would meet (sort of like we are now) and relay news from their own guilds, and find out whats going on in the other guilds
(11/10 16:11:06) T.S looks around for a bit
(11/10 16:11:07) Simon_Bitdiddle: Are we planning on having these meetings in public or private regularly?
(11/10 16:11:16) JulyForToday: that way if the GoMe is working on something that the GoW can help with somehow, the GoW would learn about it, and offer help
(11/10 16:12:03) Ghame: Meetings such as these should always be public
(11/10 16:12:11) Dudemom_2000 nods her head
(11/10 16:12:13) JulyForToday: Aside from technical reasons (which would be a large consideration) public seems the best
(11/10 16:12:46) Simon_Bitdiddle: Will there be a chairman assigned by the guild liasons?
(11/10 16:13:18) JulyForToday: I suppose that would be a good arrangement. And the chairman could organize the meetings
(11/10 16:13:19) Alahmnat: Perhaps that could be a rotating responsibility
(11/10 16:13:34) JulyForToday: (then I won't have to do it anymore :D )
(11/10 16:13:49) Frisky Badger: Or we could just hold it the same time every month
(11/10 16:14:48) JulyForToday: we discussed that at the last meeting, and it's heavily favored that meetings be held on one saturday every month or so. Saturday is the most convinient for the majority of people
(11/10 16:15:30) Simon_Bitdiddle: So, what's on today's agenda?
(11/10 16:16:16) JulyForToday: I would also like to mention that meeting announcemnets are posted on the MOUL forum, the events page on the MOUL site, and at least this one was in the MOUL email newsletter
(11/10 16:17:08) JulyForToday: Okay. For today, the main focus is the recent developments in Exodus, and now what we should do in the meantime
(11/10 16:17:46) ChaosSong: reps should bedoes anyone even know how long the "meantime" is gonna be?
(11/10 16:18:06) JulyForToday: We pretty much all know what happened. Yeesha, and the bahro are gone, and the DRC is not giving much info, whatever is left of them
(11/10 16:18:09) Simon_Bitdiddle: Currently sometime Q1 2008.
(11/10 16:18:12) Alahmnat: until January at least
(11/10 16:18:30) ChaosSong: Jan would be nice
(11/10 16:18:40) ChaosSong: I was fearing Mar
(11/10 16:18:42) Simon_Bitdiddle: So we have a few months to establish a structure.
(11/10 16:18:42) Aaron Alexander: It seems at the very least, the Guilds now have the potential to take a much greater leadership role in the cavern.
(11/10 16:18:56) JulyForToday: So really, we are left with a big question mark of silence, and developing the guilds is really all we have to do in the meantine
(11/10 16:18:58) Alahmnat: (note my "at least"... ;))
(11/10 16:19:12) Arrhae: There's always making random creations in Jalak :D
(11/10 16:19:16) Simon_Bitdiddle: Unfortunatly, we don't have the 'legitimacy' or leverage that the DRC had.
(11/10 16:19:43) ChaosSong: legitimacy will come with competence
(11/10 16:19:49) JulyForToday: That is the major concern that still seems to linger.. the "official-ness" of the Guilds
(11/10 16:19:51) Aaron Alexander: Have any of the guilds made changes to their plans in light of the DRC's departure?
(11/10 16:19:52) Alahmnat: I have an entire essay on what I think about legitimacy... heh
(11/10 16:19:52) Frisky Badger: You don't lead by telling people to follow you anyway, we need to do our thing and people will follow the Guilds if they want
(11/10 16:19:55) Simon_Bitdiddle: And leverage will come with time.
(11/10 16:20:29) Ghame: The Guilds have no "official-ness"
(11/10 16:20:34) JulyForToday: Question: who runs the Guild Support Network site?
(11/10 16:20:42) Nah'dneb: they don't have any unofficial-ness either.
(11/10 16:20:44) Frisky Badger: I believe that is Jenine
(11/10 16:20:45) Andy Legate: I can tell you, and I think Frisky will back me up on this, the Pre-GoMa are plowing ahead as before.
(11/10 16:21:05) MustardJeep: I'll back you up on that to andy
(11/10 16:21:12) Alahmnat: The Archivists are moving forward as well.
(11/10 16:21:15) Frisky Badger: True
(11/10 16:21:18) Andy Legate: Oh, and MJ whom I didn't see.... : )
(11/10 16:21:29) ChaosSong: JD Barnes was saying offical stamps may never come and advised plowing ahead
(11/10 16:21:30) MustardJeep: Wall Flower that I am. :P
(11/10 16:21:33) JulyForToday: the real problem is we have very little DRC guidance or information on how to establish the Guilds. We're sorta making it up as we go
(11/10 16:21:54) Frisky Badger: Not quite, we still have Reteltee
(11/10 16:22:04) Simon_Bitdiddle: As far as I can tell, the GoWri are carrying on with development and getting their house in order.
(11/10 16:22:09) Aaron Alexander: I guess that is an important question as well. What can the guilds bring to the cavern even in the absence of any official support from the DRC?
(11/10 16:22:10) Alahmnat: I think a lack of dictation from the DRC has been a good thing, honestly
(11/10 16:22:13) Nah'dneb: To Quote Trylon, who put this rather well: The DRC has asked for explorer organized guilds. What is forming is what they asked for. They're not official in the sense of having been directly recognized by the DRC, but they aren't unofficial in the sense that this isn't a completely separate initiative.
(11/10 16:22:41) Andy Legate: I don't see making it up as we go that bad for now. Gives us a chance to be.......creative.
(11/10 16:22:58) Simon_Bitdiddle: And plus, it keeps us from being constrained to the dictates of the DRC.
(11/10 16:22:59) JulyForToday: Never said it was bad. Just challenging :)(
(11/10 16:23:11) Andy Legate agrees
(11/10 16:23:27) ChaosSong: i think guilds need leadership structures...
(11/10 16:23:30) JulyForToday: Honestly, at this point the DRC power structure seems to almost gone, and we're all that is left
(11/10 16:23:31) Ghame: The DRC dictates may yet happen
(11/10 16:23:39) ChaosSong: some have worked on this
(11/10 16:23:52) Simon_Bitdiddle: Chaos: I think that we shouldn't implement leadership structures until the Guilds require them.
(11/10 16:24:11) ChaosSong: I thinkGoW at least needs em...
(11/10 16:24:17) Ghame: Leaderships should come from the DRC
(11/10 16:24:27) Simon_Bitdiddle: Well, and the ResEngs... But we don't know how long they'll stay.
(11/10 16:24:29) Andy Legate: When you say leadership, do you mean internal to the guilds or external?
(11/10 16:24:31) ChaosSong: i disagree ghame
(11/10 16:24:37) ChaosSong: internal
(11/10 16:24:38) JulyForToday: We'll, that is really the point of these meetings. Much like the constitutional convention, the aims of these meetings is discussing the Guild system as a whole
(11/10 16:24:39) Aaron Alexander: But Ghame, we could be waiting months or years for the DRC to do anything. What happens in the meantime?
(11/10 16:24:40) Simon_Bitdiddle: Both, actually.
(11/10 16:24:40) Alahmnat: I think asking the DRC to lead eplorer-based Guilds is asking for a disaster
(11/10 16:24:45) MustardJeep: The [GoMa] - Supporters are in the middle of electing some leaders, but it is more of a traffic control thing.
(11/10 16:24:57) Gadren: shorah!
(11/10 16:25:07) Alahmnat: shorah Gadren
(11/10 16:25:12) Andy Legate: Shora Gadren
(11/10 16:25:25) ChaosSong: yes traffic control is eactly what i was thinking
(11/10 16:25:26) Dudemom_2000: Shorah Gadren
(11/10 16:25:42) OnslaughtQ: I like the idea within the GoW of having a council to act as go betweens for the members of the guidl and anything official that might come down
(11/10 16:25:51) Ghame: Aaron> True. We can do something, but whatever we do can never be official until it is sanctioned.
(11/10 16:26:04) JulyForToday: There is already some nice collaboration going on betwen GoW and GoMa with the registration of ages
(11/10 16:26:20) Alahmnat: I think people are getting too hung up on this whole "official" business...
(11/10 16:26:23) Andy Legate: We try.
(11/10 16:26:30) Frisky Badger: I Agree Alahmnat
(11/10 16:26:38) OnslaughtQ agrees
(11/10 16:26:41) Gadren nods his head
(11/10 16:26:47) Aaron Alexander: I'm less interested in whether anything is official, than in whether it provides something useful to explorers.
(11/10 16:26:59) JulyForToday: I agreed too.. thats while I find the perception of official guilds being an important matter
(11/10 16:27:01) Andy Legate: I agree with those
(11/10 16:27:03) ChaosSong: well said Aaron
(11/10 16:27:09) Alahmnat: Officiality brings certain benefits, and maybe even access to more abilities, but that doesn't mean we can't do meaningful things in the meantime
(11/10 16:27:17) Dudemom_2000: i agree with Aaron
(11/10 16:27:19) Relayer Corps: agreed
(11/10 16:27:47) Simon_Bitdiddle: I move that the words 'official' and its derivitives are punishable offences.
(11/10 16:27:54) ChaosSong: heh
(11/10 16:27:55) Alahmnat: hehe
(11/10 16:27:55) Relayer Corps: lol
(11/10 16:27:58) Frisky Badger: 50 lashes with a wet noodle
(11/10 16:28:02) Ghame: lol
(11/10 16:28:04) Gadren laughs
(11/10 16:28:08) Alahmnat: mmm, noddles
(11/10 16:28:09) MustardJeep: The biggest part of all thiMmmm Noodles
(11/10 16:28:09) JulyForToday: Anyone remember the Unofficial Riven page?... How unofficial is it, if it is where everyone turns to?.. Uru Obession is the most official "unofficial" news source
(11/10 16:28:10) DaytonaKit (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(11/10 16:28:11) Ti'ana Shi'rah: lol
(11/10 16:28:12) Alahmnat: *noodles
(11/10 16:28:17) Gadren: alex, we're in the community room
(11/10 16:28:22) Relayer Corps: Should we make that "official" Simon??
(11/10 16:28:35) Simon_Bitdiddle: NOODLES FOR THE RELAYER CORPS!
(11/10 16:28:41) Relayer Corps roars with laughter
(11/10 16:28:50) Aaron Alexander: Exactly. The community will rally around anything that is cool or useful.
(11/10 16:28:52) Frisky Badger: The Official Unofficial Guild of Maintainers Supporters Fan Club
(11/10 16:29:15) Simon_Bitdiddle: But back to the subject at hand... uh... what was it?
(11/10 16:29:19) DaytonaKit: alex, are you stuck to the wall?
(11/10 16:29:27) JulyForToday: Quite honestly (OOC) I think Cyan wants us to organize it ourselves, and our guilds will be as much official as anything ever could be
(11/10 16:29:49) Relayer Corps: I makes sense to do it that way
(11/10 16:29:49) Frisky Badger: I think they want to see what happens when they aren't "holding our hand"
(11/10 16:29:52) GentleFire waves hello
(11/10 16:30:02) Relayer Corps: We will be running them after all
(11/10 16:30:10) JulyForToday: exactly
(11/10 16:30:12) Relayer Corps: We meaning the explorers
(11/10 16:30:12) Andy Legate: Right will we run out into traffic or stay in the yar?
(11/10 16:30:21) OnslaughtQ: I think for the most part, within the conext of guilds, we can make our own officiality
(11/10 16:30:25) Simon_Bitdiddle: Agreed, we're going to have a lot of control over the Guilds, but the problem is what sort of leverage we will have over the DRC and the Cavern itself.
(11/10 16:30:25) OnslaughtQ dodges noodles
(11/10 16:30:30) Ghame: I think Cyan are leaving the guilds to themselves until they are ready to begin the Age Creation process (whatever that will be)
(11/10 16:30:44) Ghame: Then we will begin to see direction
(11/10 16:31:00) ChaosSong: thats not what i heard
(11/10 16:31:06) Ti'ana Shi'rah: Does anyone know when the Age Creation will begin?
(11/10 16:31:08) Aaron Alexander: I think the guilds have to find direction on their own.
(11/10 16:31:20) Relayer Corps: What did you hear Ghame?
(11/10 16:31:20) Alahmnat: I'm inclined to think we'll see cooperation, rather than direction, in the future...
(11/10 16:31:21) Aaron Alexander: For now, at least.
(11/10 16:31:24) MustardJeep: The hardest part in all of this is figuring out how much we personally can manage to "do".
(11/10 16:31:28) ChaosSong: I heard it was up to explorers til they are ready
(11/10 16:31:40) Simon_Bitdiddle: Creation? We've been doing it in a hamhanded sense for a while. Inclusion into MOUL? No idea.
(11/10 16:31:41) JulyForToday: Age Creation is already possible.. but the actually availabiltity of the ages to the public has not yet been possible
(11/10 16:31:58) Gadren: technically, july, it's possible, just not on MOUL
(11/10 16:32:11) MustardJeep: JulyFor Today Fan Ages are publicly available just not in MO:UL
(11/10 16:32:22) MustardJeep: You have to do it in CC for now
(11/10 16:32:28) JulyForToday: Not yet... but only the DRC (OOC Cyan) can figure that out
(11/10 16:32:28) Ghame: Fan ages are not part of MOUL
(11/10 16:32:35) Andy Legate: I think that we seem to be doing good in trying to form the different guilds, and I think Meetings like this can show that the guilds can communiate and work with each other.
(11/10 16:32:35) Relayer Corps: yet
(11/10 16:32:44) Ti'ana Shi'rah: Doesn't an Age have to be inspected by the Guild of Maintainers?
(11/10 16:32:46) Relayer Corps nods her head
(11/10 16:32:54) GentleFire agrees
(11/10 16:32:55) Ti'ana Shi'rah: Before its open to the public?
(11/10 16:33:07) GentleFire: yes
(11/10 16:33:11) Frisky Badger: That's pretty far down the road though
(11/10 16:33:15) JulyForToday: Yes. Ages will need to be tested and provided through the GoMA
(11/10 16:33:22) Frisky Badger: But we are practicing :)
(11/10 16:33:27) Simon_Bitdiddle: Does the GoMa have criteria for stability inspection yet?
(11/10 16:33:34) JulyForToday: I have no idea.. lol
(11/10 16:33:35) MustardJeep: Working on it
(11/10 16:33:37) Ghame: But we don't yet have a specified process for that yet
(11/10 16:33:37) Frisky Badger: Working on it Simon :)
(11/10 16:33:40) Andy Legate: That' si something we're working on
(11/10 16:33:56) Gadren: part of those criteria will probably have to come from Cyan, like multiplayer and network stability
(11/10 16:34:04) Ti'ana Shi'rah: Because I'm interested in being in the GoW, so I just want to find out.
(11/10 16:34:10) JulyForToday: and GoMa is going to have to work very closely with Cyan, i think
(11/10 16:34:19) Frisky Badger: Eventually, yes we expect input from Cyan, in the mean time we're doing what we can
(11/10 16:34:36) Ghame: Is it possible we may not have any contact with Cyan, but the DRC?
(11/10 16:34:39) Simon_Bitdiddle: Well, I'm sure the boffins in the GoWri would like to chirp in on it... just so they know what to not break. :)
(11/10 16:35:19) Frisky Badger: It will most likely be both, Ghame
(11/10 16:35:27) Gadren: i don't want to disrupt the meeting, but i'm just wondering if there are any other cartograpthers here
(11/10 16:35:33) Alex-Macintosh: I'm here!
(11/10 16:35:36) Alex-Macintosh: finally
(11/10 16:35:36) Simon_Bitdiddle: It should be both, Ghame. Cyan's gotta put the Ages on their servers.
(11/10 16:35:45) Andy Legate: I'd like to bring up a point with a question.
(11/10 16:35:56) Ghame: I would disagree
(11/10 16:36:03) MustardJeep: ?
(11/10 16:36:12) JulyForToday: Alex> who is the GM of GoC?.. Ive forgotten.. isn't his name Aaron?
(11/10 16:36:23) Frisky Badger: How are the Ages going to get into MOUL without being on Cyan's servers?
(11/10 16:36:40) Gadren: they'll probably have to be
(11/10 16:36:48) Andy Legate: Is there any other way we can make people aware that the Guilds that we are trying to form are also trying to work together and communicate? Other than meetings like this.
(11/10 16:36:52) Ghame: There is an alternative theory on how the Ages will be created (written) which does not involve Cyan
(11/10 16:37:00) Simon_Bitdiddle: uh...
(11/10 16:37:02) Gadren: what's that, ghame?
(11/10 16:37:04) JulyForToday: Actually, the way the we currently distribute Ages through the Uru Library Manager, people have ages on their own webspace
(11/10 16:37:13) Ghame: Its too complex to explain here
(11/10 16:37:22) GentleFire: Player hosted servers Ghame?
(11/10 16:37:24) Gadren: please try/
(11/10 16:37:26) Relayer Corps: If someone wants to write up a newsletter about it, the Cavern Criers can distribute it in the cavern
(11/10 16:37:54) Frisky Badger: Cyan isn't going to let anyone add something without being involved in some way
(11/10 16:38:02) JulyForToday: We should get in touch with the owner of Guild Support Network, and involve them in these meetings
(11/10 16:38:18) Andy Legate: That would be Jenine
(11/10 16:38:23) boogihn meesahl: Isnt that Janeinie
(11/10 16:38:28) boogihn meesahl: Oops sorry
(11/10 16:38:42) Gadren: i have a question i'd like to ask
(11/10 16:38:58) JulyForToday: well, one way to do it would be like ULM is now... Cyan has a link to where a user age is stored online, and the game downloads it from there
(11/10 16:39:00) T.S: sorry,have to go.bye!
(11/10 16:39:09) Aaron Alexander listens to Gadren
(11/10 16:39:13) JulyForToday: sure Gadren :)
(11/10 16:39:14) Relayer Corps: Bye TS
(11/10 16:39:18) T.S waves goodbye
(11/10 16:39:24) Alahmnat: JFT> You'd still have to have the game's vault data on Cyan's servers...
(11/10 16:39:38) boogihn meesahl still waiting to hear Andy's point with a question... :)
(11/10 16:39:53) JulyForToday: but would that require the age's files to be on Cyan's server?..
(11/10 16:39:54) T.S (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(11/10 16:39:58) Frisky Badger: But the ULM only works with CC which is a completely different animal than MOUL
(11/10 16:40:01) Gadren: i seem to be the only cartographer here, and while we're working on literal maps of D'ni ages, and we're considering expanding our role to more of an "archivist" job... i was wondering if any of you had responsibilities in the context of age creation which you think could be fulfilled by the cartographers
(11/10 16:40:07) Andy Legate Already asked questions. I'm waitng for the Age stuff to die down.
(11/10 16:40:24) JulyForToday: Frisky> Cyan would have to make their own 'ULM' for MOUL
(11/10 16:40:32) Gadren: i mean, 3d modelling wouldn't be done by us, since the writers are covering that
(11/10 16:40:44) Frisky Badger: Right, which is my point that Cyan is going to be involved somehow
(11/10 16:40:46) Simon_Bitdiddle: The GoWri can always use a more tuned Cartographer eye for our ages.
(11/10 16:40:47) Frisky Badger: :)
(11/10 16:41:04) Gadren: what do you mean, simon?
(11/10 16:41:06) Alahmnat: Gadren, what sort of archivist duties are you referring to?
(11/10 16:41:20) Ghame: Cyan will administer the creation system and create the "tools" for the explorers will use to create Ages.
(11/10 16:41:21) Maurus: hello all...guild meeting?
(11/10 16:41:37) Gadren: see, i'm not really sure, al. and i guess you've got the archivist stuff covered more than we ever could
(11/10 16:41:40) Andy Legate: Guild system meeting.
(11/10 16:41:44) ChaosSong: Gadren, I have an ugly floor plan for a propsed user age that could use beautifing
(11/10 16:42:09) Gadren: oh, so you mean like concept design, chaos?
(11/10 16:42:13) ChaosSong: yes
(11/10 16:42:14) GentleFire: The GoC would create a map for others to use when finding their way through new places, right?
(11/10 16:42:28) Gadren: that is our current goal, yes, gentle
(11/10 16:42:32) Maurus wants to ask a question...
(11/10 16:42:33) Alahmnat: I'd definitely like to see the GoC and the GoA working together on archival...
(11/10 16:42:35) Relayer Corps: Maps are a good thing. lol
(11/10 16:43:06) Alahmnat: I mentioned last month that each could store their relevant information about each Age, and cross-link to one another's sites
(11/10 16:43:11) JulyForToday: Im sure many writers would appreciate nice layouts for ages. Some may prefer without, some with..
(11/10 16:43:24) ChaosSong loves the GoC Eder Gira map
(11/10 16:43:48) GentleFire: I imagine the GoC could also have written journals of personal walkthroughs and experience of these ages. Documenting notable spots of interest and what not.
(11/10 16:44:05) Maurus nods his head
(11/10 16:44:21) Gadren: it's just that the writers design the ages, the maintainers test them, the messengers can tell people about them... i just get the sense that the DRC included cartographers as one of the 5 for a reason in context of age building
(11/10 16:44:25) JulyForToday: thats also when the GoG comes in.. they've done a great deal of work on walkthroughs and exploration of the ages
(11/10 16:44:26) David the Third (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(11/10 16:44:26) Alahmnat: So for example, the GoC's maps of Teledahn would be linked to from the Archivists' information on the Age, and the GoC would link to the information from their Teledahn map page. :)
(11/10 16:44:58) Simon_Bitdiddle: Cartographers also could be the field researchers for the Ages, taking samples of rock, water and flora/fauna for testing.
(11/10 16:44:58) Maurus: Archivists?
(11/10 16:45:11) Maurus: a sub-organization of the cartographers, i presume?
(11/10 16:45:24) Gadren: that sounds nice, simon -- but is there an OOC equivalent to that?
(11/10 16:45:25) JulyForToday: There is a 6th unofficial, un-incepted Guild of Archivists
(11/10 16:45:37) GentleFire: Would the cartographers get to name the specimen found or would the writers?
(11/10 16:45:42) Simon_Bitdiddle: From what I understand, the Maintainers make sure that the Age is stable and the Cartographers actually explore the Age.
(11/10 16:45:46) Gadren: i mean, the nature of cartography is that what you can make is dependent on what's already there
(11/10 16:45:48) Alahmnat: Because I think it was a glaring oversight on the DRC's part to leave it out. ;)
(11/10 16:45:54) Maurus: what if just the cartographers handled all of that?
(11/10 16:45:55) ChaosSong: i'm a writer in the sence of words on paper, when I draw a map, it's rough and ugly and I would be ashamed to release it to the general public...
(11/10 16:46:17) Alahmnat: Because history extends beyond the scope of the Cartographers, IMO
(11/10 16:46:19) Gadren: and from an OOC standpoint, it wouldn't make any use for the Cartos to "explore," since the WRiters have already desgined the Age and know what's in it
(11/10 16:46:48) Maurus: no but wouldn't they have all contextual information on it, etc?
(11/10 16:46:54) Ghame: I understood the Maintainers purpose is to test the stability and vaibility of an Age before placing their seal on it and realesing it to the public. (quoting Reteltee)
(11/10 16:46:59) JulyForToday: but no-one else aside from the writers know whats in it
(11/10 16:47:04) Gadren: so, should the Cartos maybe work to "create" the contextual info?
(11/10 16:47:11) Simon_Bitdiddle: Not necessarily, the Cartographers would be the Editors for the GoWri.
(11/10 16:47:15) JulyForToday: I dunno whats in any of Chao's Ages..
(11/10 16:47:23) Alahmnat: Maurus> I can understand where the GoC would fit for recording information about the Ages, but there is a *lot* more going on here than just Ages.
(11/10 16:47:27) Gadren: in much the samw way that Futographer made those interesting pages about the flora and fauna of the Uru ages?
(11/10 16:47:30) Maurus: OOC- a big part of myst games have been walkthroughs and detailed information, shouldn't the cartos' focus on that too?
(11/10 16:47:40) Alahmnat: And that needs to be cataloged and recorded for future reference. That's where the Archivists fit in
(11/10 16:47:42) Gadren: a way to establish depth, perhaps?
(11/10 16:48:29) JulyForToday: I should add that the D'ni Zoological Society come into play here too..
(11/10 16:48:39) Gadren nods his head
(11/10 16:48:42) GentleFire: yes, that's what i imagined GoC being. The ones that document about the ages and leave the info available for other future explorers to learn from.
(11/10 16:48:50) JulyForToday: Im assuming the GoC and the DZS work together already..
(11/10 16:48:50) Gadren: are they already affiliated with a guild yet?
(11/10 16:48:52) Simon_Bitdiddle: The Writers build and establish an Age, the Maintainers make sure it works right, the Cartographers come through and make sure all the flavortext and maps are good...
(11/10 16:48:54) JulyForToday: Bahro.. O.o
(11/10 16:49:00) JulyForToday: anyone else heard that?
(11/10 16:49:08) Arrhae heard a Bahro
(11/10 16:49:09) Maurus: nd the messengers serve as cavern mass media
(11/10 16:49:12) Andy Legate: nope
(11/10 16:49:14) Maurus: including TCT and the CCN
(11/10 16:49:14) Ghame: no
(11/10 16:49:18) Aaron Alexander nods
(11/10 16:49:26) Kono Ashi nods
(11/10 16:49:30) JulyForToday: I thought they all left... <.<
(11/10 16:49:32) Gadren: i'll post a thread on MOUL about this in a bit
(11/10 16:49:44) Aaron Alexander: another one...
(11/10 16:49:45) Simon_Bitdiddle: And the Guild of Caterers make sure all the other guilds have coffee and doughnuts.
(11/10 16:49:46) OnslaughtQ: is that what that sound was?
(11/10 16:49:46) Alahmnat: brb
(11/10 16:49:53) Maurus: lol
(11/10 16:50:02) Simon_Bitdiddle: Which is the MOST IMPORTANT THING OF ALL!
(11/10 16:50:09) Arrhae: Mmm... doughnuts
(11/10 16:50:09) Ghame: Not forgetting muffins
(11/10 16:50:12) David the Third: Amen.
(11/10 16:50:15) Andy Legate: A bunch of us inpsected the night they left. You still hear the Bahro in the Hoods, here, and the Journey caves.
(11/10 16:50:17) JulyForToday: lol...
(11/10 16:50:20) Maurus: where do the Relayers fit in? a subset of the messengers, i hope?
(11/10 16:50:32) Simon_Bitdiddle: The Relayers should be part of the Messengers.
(11/10 16:50:48) Maurus: so should TCT
(11/10 16:50:56) JulyForToday: The DZS should be part of the GoC, imho
(11/10 16:51:06) Gadren nods his head
(11/10 16:51:10) Gadren: that sounds great
(11/10 16:51:34) Andy Legate: I thought anything news related, messages and mail would fall under the Messengers. Or did I get that wrong?
(11/10 16:51:39) boogihn meesahl: the Relayers and Cavern Criers are both affiliated with the Guild of Messengers
(11/10 16:52:01) OnslaughtQ: got to go
(11/10 16:52:02) ChaosSong: DZS and GoC should all be Archivists, imho
(11/10 16:52:13) boogihn meesahl: that is my understanding also, Andy
(11/10 16:52:17) Gadren: i sort of think the same thing, chaos
(11/10 16:52:18) Relayer Corps: back
(11/10 16:52:33) Gadren: but we can't change the fact that the Cartos, not the Archivos, are one of the 5
(11/10 16:52:33) JulyForToday: well, technically everything should be part of the GoA.. lol..
(11/10 16:52:37) ChaosSong: archives of different data
(11/10 16:52:57) Loshem: The bahro allied with Yeesha are still here watching and protecting us
(11/10 16:52:58) Simon_Bitdiddle: The DZS has stated publically that they are not planning on being part of any Guild, but they aren't advising their members to avoid the guilds.
(11/10 16:52:59) Alahmnat: But that's not what an Archivist is, Chaos. There's history and background that needs to be covered which falls beyond the scope of detailing the appearance of an Age, IMO
(11/10 16:53:15) Maurus: i kind of think our definition of an archivist is kind of what the cartographers are supposed to be in the first place, IMO.
(11/10 16:53:52) ChaosSong: ala: think of it has having a group that specalizes in maps within a larger archiving context
(11/10 16:54:03) Simon_Bitdiddle: I agree, the Guild of Cartographers seems to be more of an archivist to the Ages role (at least ICly)
(11/10 16:54:08) Alahmnat: JFT> Technically, yes, but I think there's places where a line needs to be drawn ;)
(11/10 16:54:09) JulyForToday: The DZS actually pre-dates any of the 5 new guilds.. Im not so much advocating merging them, just a close relationship with GoC
(11/10 16:54:14) Kono Ashi: think of the archivist as a librarian. and the GoC as journalists. thats what im getting.
(11/10 16:54:22) Andy Legate: I'd like to ask my question again, as I think it would be a good point to bring up here, a meeting of different guilds.
(11/10 16:54:29) Maurus: ooh! I hae a suggestion then, what if we renamed the cartographer's guild the archiver's guild, and then have the cartographers be a subset of that?
(11/10 16:54:47) Gadren: the face remains, maurus, that this is the Guild name that the DRC created
(11/10 16:54:50) JulyForToday: the GoMe are the journalists
(11/10 16:55:05) Simon_Bitdiddle: Maurus: Or simply have the guild of archivers fall under the auspices of the Guild of Cartographers.
(11/10 16:55:07) Relayer Corps: and distributer of news
(11/10 16:55:08) ChaosSong listens for andy's question
(11/10 16:55:12) GentleFire: not only would they be in charge of mapping everything out but also in knowing what all the symbols mean, story about the age, reasons for anything within that age
(11/10 16:55:24) Gadren: i think that's the way it'll have to be, simon :)
(11/10 16:55:28) Alahmnat: I think it's ultimately restrictive to try and force everything into this initial "5" construct that the DRC have created...
(11/10 16:55:36) Relayer Corps nods her head
(11/10 16:55:45) Gadren: i'm a big fan of that, gentlefire
(11/10 16:55:47) JulyForToday: Just because the DRC did or didn't incept a Guild means very little to our present circumstances..
(11/10 16:55:48) Grogyan (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(11/10 16:56:02) Simon_Bitdiddle: It is a bit restrictive, but we should work with the short shrift we've been handed.
(11/10 16:56:03) Relayer Corps: Just because the DRC say we can have 5 doesn't mean we can't make more
(11/10 16:56:06) Ghame: It could be the role of the GoC is to physically render and map and Age created by the GoW before it passes to the GoMa for varification
(11/10 16:56:19) JulyForToday: if we are to organize oursleves we must have the power to incept guilds ourselves..
(11/10 16:56:20) Grogyan (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(11/10 16:56:22) Andy Legate: There have been many people ove
(11/10 16:56:32) Gadren: cartos would of course work cloesly with the writers and others, but i think cartos should have a sort of ability to establish "canon" like that (at least in the same sense that a fan age is canon)
(11/10 16:56:37) JulyForToday: the only thing to avoid are un-necessary guilds
(11/10 16:56:46) Alahmnat: I don't think that's necessary, Simon. Shoe-horning responsibilities where they may not fit strikes me as a bad idea.
(11/10 16:57:20) Alahmnat: And it limits future Guild development.
(11/10 16:57:28) GentleFire: well..how about we combine all the talents into the guilds available atm and if it becomes clear a huge group needs to branch off..they branch off.
(11/10 16:57:29) JulyForToday agrees
(11/10 16:57:46) Gadren: see, ghame, i don't know how rendering an Age in 3d would really work for the cartos. that's far more under the responsibilities of the BoW, and Alahm is right: we shouldn't force a Writers process into the Cartos just to make it fit with the name
(11/10 16:57:59) Gadren: GoW*
(11/10 16:58:00) ChaosSong: jft is right about it not making a big difference, who cares which pub you have your meetings in...
(11/10 16:58:12) Maurus: I have a comment- shouldent the maintainers do some sort of initial testing? for example, assuming some day writers have full ability to write an age. what if that's total crap in some way- innappropriate, or simply too poor to use, etc. if the designs were sent to the cartographers first a lot of time might be wasted. shouldnt the maintainers ratify the age first before anyone else does anything?
(11/10 16:58:58) Ghame: The role of verification by the GoMa is explained in Kierl teeshirt paper
(11/10 16:58:59) Andy Legate: Meeting
(11/10 16:59:09) Gadren: cartos should be involved less with the physical design of the Age, and more with the contexual information, I think :)
(11/10 16:59:17) Ghede: I don't think the guilds will be set in stone,
(11/10 16:59:19) Maurus: i agree with gadren
(11/10 16:59:21) JulyForToday: there would have to be GoMa guidelines for an age.. what is deemed approriate, inappropriate
(11/10 16:59:26) Ghede: They may need to change at some point.
(11/10 16:59:42) ChaosSong: yes guilds should be set in clay
(11/10 16:59:46) Simon_Bitdiddle: As I said, the GoC is more involved with the flavortext and overall editing of an Age.
(11/10 17:00:08) Simon_Bitdiddle: The Maintainers are there to make sure there's no fallthrough drops and all the buttons work logically.
(11/10 17:00:10) Gadren: for example, let's say that the Writers are working on a new Age... they could come to the cartos for info on making a "realistic" or "plausible" ecosystem, using the help of the DZS's expertise
(11/10 17:00:19) Ghede: The best
(11/10 17:00:22) Ghede: Sorry.
(11/10 17:00:30) Alahmnat: GentleFire> I think we're already at a point where there's more responsibilities regarding the recording of information than fit within this very Ages-centric Guild structure the DRC has passed down. That's why I'm trying to create a GoA in the first place ;).
(11/10 17:00:33) ChaosSong: yes gadren i like that
(11/10 17:00:42) Gadren: who knows? if the archivists are sort-of-Cartos, then maybe Linguists could be the same way for now, and we could also help facilitate translations
(11/10 17:00:49) GentleFire: ic ic
(11/10 17:01:13) Gadren shrugs
(11/10 17:01:17) Nuts: Does anyone mind telling me what happened with the Bahros? You can tell me in private
(11/10 17:01:23) Relayer Corps: that's something to bring up on the guild of messengers forum though
(11/10 17:01:28) Andy Legate: Guys I have to cook dinner soon. I"d like to get a word in here maybe?
(11/10 17:01:34) GentleFire: ill send you a ki Nuts
(11/10 17:01:34) Gadren: are the linguists more with the messengers?
(11/10 17:01:40) Nuts: Thanks gentlefire
(11/10 17:01:43) Nuts: :)
(11/10 17:01:53) Alahmnat: I think the Linguists are their own entity.
(11/10 17:01:54) Relayer Corps: I don't think they are
(11/10 17:01:58) Alahmnat: Again, no shoehorning. ;)
(11/10 17:02:13) Andy Legate: There seems to be an increasing number of people at the Forums wondering if the guilds are doing anything. or communicating.
(11/10 17:02:31) Andy Legate: Is there anything else we can do to help show them? Besides these meetings?
(11/10 17:02:42) JulyForToday: basically, we have a group of 5 un-official-yet-official Guilds, and a number of unofficial societies/guilds (DZS, GoA, GoL)
(11/10 17:02:52) Andy Legate: Because posting links to the forums seem to get ignored.
(11/10 17:02:53) Gadren: but alahmnat, if we don't shoehorn at all, then the GoC becomes increasingly irrelevant, as just the ones who get sketches and "pretties them up" ;)
(11/10 17:02:57) Relayer Corps: Maybe if the other guild would write up something for the cavern criers to pass out
(11/10 17:02:58) Kono Ashi: i'm not sure if this was coverd earlyer before i got here. but do we have clear leaders for each of the guilds?
(11/10 17:03:08) Andy Legate: *sigh*
(11/10 17:03:09) Relayer Corps: something about what your guilds are doing
(11/10 17:03:19) Maurus: just because they're cartographers in name does not mean that that is all they do. For example, library literally comes from the latin word for "book." But the term library means much more today, and even public libraries have a myriad of media and information that is not limited to books. Similarly, the cartographers shouldnt be limited to simply writing maps, etc. and should perhaps function more like the proposed Archivist's guild
(11/10 17:03:28) JulyForToday: Andy> the site Guildsupportnetwork.org (or .com.. i forget) is about the most central place to go right now
(11/10 17:03:31) Relayer Corps: No for the GOM yet
(11/10 17:03:36) boogihn meesahl: Maybe a weekly/monthly update for the Criers to distribute
(11/10 17:03:49) Relayer Corps: that would be good
(11/10 17:03:51) boogihn meesahl: From each guild
(11/10 17:04:02) Alahmnat: I think my point is still getting lost in the semantics of names...
(11/10 17:04:02) Relayer Corps: just to keep the explorers informed
(11/10 17:04:11) Andy Legate: yes, and I've posted that link many times. But people still seem to think that nobody is doing anything, when if fact all of us have been doing a LOT.
(11/10 17:04:16) Gadren: sorry, alahmnat -- could you clarify then? :)
(11/10 17:04:17) ChaosSong: Andy, I can't think of what else to tell those still looking, I didn't have to look far to find big groups working together in pre-guilds...
(11/10 17:04:36) boogihn meesahl: The explorers in cavern....
(11/10 17:04:43) boogihn meesahl: Who do not normally go to forums
(11/10 17:04:48) Simon_Bitdiddle: The issue is less the perception of us doing anything than J. Random Explorer not seeing anything FROM these sorts of dialogues.
(11/10 17:05:11) Relayer Corps: The criers were born out of talks like these
(11/10 17:05:16) boogihn meesahl: Yes
(11/10 17:05:18) JulyForToday: each guild is really going to have to commit to working on their own sites, and providing info about themselves
(11/10 17:05:35) Andy Legate: Yah, the GoMa have been working on that.
(11/10 17:05:48) Maurus: what is the difference between the criers and the relayers...and also, btw, what is a "pre-" guild?
(11/10 17:05:49) Relayer Corps: And please give us something to pass out to explorers here in the cavern
(11/10 17:05:51) Alahmnat: Gadren: The D'ni had more than 5 Guilds for a very good reason. The Linguists and Archivists were their own entities with their own responsibilities. I think trying to take the duties of two entire Guilds and re-distribute them to other Guilds because the DRC said they should be created is a bad idea.
(11/10 17:05:51) JulyForToday: GoW's website doesnt actually have a link to the forums... lol
(11/10 17:05:55) Andy Legate: just check out my sig on any post I make.
(11/10 17:06:05) Ghede: Another option would be a device similiar to the Bevin message device, another good way to distribute news.
(11/10 17:06:24) Relayer Corps: but we need to use what we have now.
(11/10 17:06:27) Andy Legate: someone ask about the pre and supporters?
(11/10 17:06:32) GentleFire: since cartography is a way of record keeping...and there are so many forms of record keeping...then maybe the guilds name should be Guild of Archivist and the Cartographers, Linguistics, Historians etc could all work together from within that guild
(11/10 17:06:39) Andy Legate: screen scrolled up too fast.
(11/10 17:06:45) Simon_Bitdiddle: Actually, we fixed that recently JFT. :D
(11/10 17:06:52) GentleFire: that what your getting at?
(11/10 17:06:54) ChaosSong: GoW for one is mostly an OOC effort which means a forum (or six) and Joe Explorer who never reads a forum might be better off in GoMe...
(11/10 17:07:00) Gadren: alahmnat: the thing is that these 5 guilds are probably going to get more attention and cooperation with the DRC
(11/10 17:07:07) Alahmnat: I think trying to force the Linguists into a Cartographers or Messengers Guild is a bad idea, just as I think it's bad to try and force all of the historical and informational responsibilities into the GoC
(11/10 17:07:10) Maurus: ooh, thats an interesting idea. until we can have them ratified, have them be a part of the GoC?
(11/10 17:07:12) Frisky Badger: Only for now Gadren
(11/10 17:07:23) Frisky Badger: They plan on having more than 5 Guilds
(11/10 17:07:30) boogihn meesahl: Relayers - are the ones who are the next best thing to 'Live" when action is taking place in the cavern
(11/10 17:07:33) JulyForToday: At the momement there is a bit of a sub group within GoW, the Guild of Ink Makers (program coders)(
(11/10 17:07:43) Gadren: and when those new guilds are requested by the DRC, those responsibilities can split off
(11/10 17:08:00) Alahmnat: I don't think we should wait for the DRC to realize something needs doing
(11/10 17:08:11) boogihn meesahl: cavern criers are the ones who bring the new into the cavern (along the lines of the old town criers)
(11/10 17:08:13) Relayer Corps: i agree
(11/10 17:08:14) JulyForToday: I think that if any of the 5 guilds find they are taking on resposibilities fitting another guild from the original Dni system, they should set up a subgroup
(11/10 17:08:16) Frisky Badger: Or they can remain independent and still do their thing
(11/10 17:08:33) Simon_Bitdiddle: Have we heard anything about opening up the Guild Hall yet?
(11/10 17:08:34) GentleFire: ahh (what are texture artists called in GoW)
(11/10 17:08:45) Relayer Corps: not yet
(11/10 17:08:54) Andy Legate: Paper makers?
(11/10 17:09:01) ChaosSong: heh
(11/10 17:09:03) Gadren: then we're left with the issue: what exactly does the GoC DO, if there's no linguistic or archivist properties in it?
(11/10 17:09:10) Alahmnat: It bothers me that the DRC completely ignored the existing groups working on history and linguistics when the set up this 5-Guild system we have now.
(11/10 17:09:12) Simon_Bitdiddle: The coders who develop the tools we use to make the Ages. :)
(11/10 17:09:13) JulyForToday: well, the only other relavant guild to GoW is GoBM... Guild of Book Makers
(11/10 17:09:14) Grogyan (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(11/10 17:09:16) Frisky Badger: I heard someone say they thought we'll never open the Guild Hall because of what is under it
(11/10 17:09:35) Frisky Badger: Which is ridiculous, I think
(11/10 17:09:37) Robert Starbuck: Getting back to the idea of getting information to the common explorer, I think a newsletter is a good idea. It helps organize and centralize info about the guilds. Easier to read than a forum.
(11/10 17:09:44) Gadren: the idea of just map-making works in RL, where the world already exists, but when making these new Ages, the GoC is just running a 3d map through photoshop to make it look nice
(11/10 17:09:56) ChaosSong: Gadren: I thought of GoC as making accurate, beautiful maps for public use...
(11/10 17:10:05) boogihn meesahl: Thank you Robert Starbuck.
(11/10 17:10:09) Relayer Corps: If every Guild could supply the Cavern Criers with a newsletter, we could distribute it
(11/10 17:10:12) JulyForToday: A Guild Newsletter is a good idea
(11/10 17:10:12) Maurus: IC- well, if we really want to create a new guild, we'd have to most likely restore a pub somewhere in thecity to make it "seem" official
(11/10 17:10:18) boogihn meesahl: And that is exactly what the Cavern Criers are about
(11/10 17:10:19) boogihn meesahl: Lol
(11/10 17:10:21) GentleFire agrees and is happy we have a current ki mail of events now.
(11/10 17:10:23) Andy Legate: I like the idea of a KI News letter. News about each Guild and what they are up to.
(11/10 17:10:25) Simon_Bitdiddle: That's a noodling for Maurus.
(11/10 17:10:34) Alahmnat: hehe
(11/10 17:10:42) Frisky Badger: I'll boil some water
(11/10 17:10:44) Nuts: ooh, KI news letter would be a great thng
(11/10 17:11:04) Maurus: that was a semi-joke, but when you think about it, in the public eye, a guild doesn't "seem" official unless it has its own pub
(11/10 17:11:11) Simon_Bitdiddle: We could get the ResEngs to use the DRC's bulk kimailer.
(11/10 17:11:22) Andy Legate: Would it be too overwhelming? Or is it something that the Messengers could get going somehow?
(11/10 17:11:23) Relayer Corps: that would be nice
(11/10 17:11:36) boogihn meesahl: we are working on that as we speak
(11/10 17:11:44) Andy Legate: Great!
(11/10 17:11:48) ChaosSong: each guild should appoint someone to write a (bi?)weekly newsletter to send to appointed Criers
(11/10 17:11:53) Robert Starbuck: I realize it's a bit premature, but it would also be nice to put together some materials for new explorer looking to get involved. One for each guild.
(11/10 17:11:55) Relayer Corps nods her head
(11/10 17:12:01) Andy Legate: I now it would make a lot of explorers not forum savvy happy.
(11/10 17:12:06) JulyForToday: But for the mean time, certain Guilds will have to live under the roof of another guild (such as Guild of Inkmakers, ect)
(11/10 17:12:10) Maurus: the GoG would probably be able to handle that
(11/10 17:12:26) JulyForToday: Robert> that is a great idea
(11/10 17:12:30) Ghede: I can't tell you how many times I would have loved a newsletter, Especially a transcription of Yeesha's speech.I
(11/10 17:12:41) Andy Legate: My wife is in the GoG, I'll pester her.
(11/10 17:12:47) Relayer Corps: lol
(11/10 17:13:01) GentleFire: well..i made a transcript of her speech
(11/10 17:13:02) Maurus: it's the GoG's job to help out newer explorers, after all
(11/10 17:13:18) Andy Legate: She hates the KI though.
(11/10 17:13:23) Nynaveve: Yes, but they may not be able to keep it updated with current projects, etc.
(11/10 17:13:26) Relayer Corps: We are going to need a lot more volunteers for the Criers, but we will do what we can
(11/10 17:13:41) Nynaveve: It might be wise to have them refer new people to a place that the Guilds keep updating with changing details
(11/10 17:13:43) JulyForToday: if the KI was a little more functional (darn scroll arrows!) I'd like it more
(11/10 17:13:49) ChaosSong: do a recruiting drive RC
(11/10 17:13:52) Maurus: THe guilds are now the official governing body in the caern now, now that the DRC is gone
(11/10 17:13:55) Ghede: Thanks GentleFire.
(11/10 17:14:00) Relayer Corps: lol We will
(11/10 17:14:06) Arrhae thinks that the KI needs some revamping, as well
(11/10 17:14:07) Frisky Badger: Um, we aren't "governing" anything
(11/10 17:14:12) Nuts: I have wished the KI had scrollbars since day 1
(11/10 17:14:17) Frisky Badger: The Guilds aren't a government
(11/10 17:14:22) Relayer Corps: governing? sice when?
(11/10 17:14:26) Relayer Corps: since
(11/10 17:14:42) Andy Legate: That was my bad.
(11/10 17:14:53) Andy Legate: I used that word over at MOUL and UO forums.
(11/10 17:14:58) Maurus: well, theyre really the only working system down here at all now. How you define "governing " is another story, isnt it?
(11/10 17:14:58) JulyForToday: The Guilds are a system of organizing services within the cavern for the purpose of restoring D'ni (ie, OOC, expanding the game)
(11/10 17:15:07) Relayer Corps: oooo that must have been nasty
(11/10 17:15:11) Andy Legate hopes people won't throw stones.
(11/10 17:15:12) Nynaveve: I wouldn't call the DRC a government either, more like a tyranny
(11/10 17:15:15) Frisky Badger: no, we aren't telling anyone how to do anything
(11/10 17:15:19) Relayer Corps: lol
(11/10 17:15:27) Relayer Corps: except ourselves
(11/10 17:15:30) Alahmnat throws noodles
(11/10 17:15:42) Frisky Badger: we're more like service groups
(11/10 17:15:45) ChaosSong: more like a locked beaurocracy
(11/10 17:15:46) Ghede: I wish we could throw stones every once in awhile, the only rocks I can find are large pieces of rubble.
(11/10 17:15:47) Relayer Corps nods her head
(11/10 17:15:49) Andy Legate: I was trying to say the guilds could be leaders, but I ment by example and helping. NOt ruling over others.
(11/10 17:15:58) Maurus: well, before the DRC laid down all the ground rules in the cavern, assisted people and took care of official business
(11/10 17:16:01) Relayer Corps nods her head
(11/10 17:16:05) Dudemom_2000 catches the noodles and fries them up and makes yakisoba....
(11/10 17:16:11) ChaosSong: yes leaders not lords
(11/10 17:16:14) Relayer Corps: Yum. I want some
(11/10 17:16:17) Frisky Badger: What ground rules?
(11/10 17:16:17) Maurus: Ruling and Leading are different of course. who said anything about Ruling? :D
(11/10 17:16:20) Andy Legate ducks any rocks.
(11/10 17:16:28) Relayer Corps: lead by example, not a nose ring
(11/10 17:16:30) JulyForToday: Okay.. Im sure everyone is anxious to get to dinner, seeing how noodles are flying about the room :)
(11/10 17:16:34) Frisky Badger: Only thing the DRC does is try to tell us where to go
(11/10 17:16:42) Ghede struggles with a large chunk of rubble, staring at Andy angrily.
(11/10 17:16:44) Frisky Badger: or rather where we are allowed to go
(11/10 17:16:45) Andy Legate: well......they (people on the forum) thought I ment that the guilds should rul.
(11/10 17:16:49) Relayer Corps: and they are the ones that left. lol
(11/10 17:16:51) Alahmnat: Gadren, if you've got time after the meeting, I'd like to talk about Guild duties with you for a bit :)
(11/10 17:16:54) Simon_Bitdiddle: Yeah, where's the rep from the Guild of Caterers with the coffee and munchies?
(11/10 17:16:58) GentleFire dodges a wet noodle
(11/10 17:16:59) Gadren: sure, alahm
(11/10 17:17:15) Frisky Badger goes limp....like a wet noodle
(11/10 17:17:16) Relayer Corps: we really need a Guild of Caterers
(11/10 17:17:25) Ghede: I could do with a donut shop down here myself.
(11/10 17:17:25) Maurus: lol
(11/10 17:17:28) Dudemom_2000: i could agree with you there!
(11/10 17:17:29) Maurus: :D
(11/10 17:17:30) Andy Legate: Many made it clear though: No goverment that rules.
(11/10 17:17:33) Gadren: just let me know when you'd like to talk ;)
(11/10 17:17:34) JulyForToday: So the big thing on the docket is getting out newsletters and figuring out Guild leaders, and how subgroups-societies fit into the picture
(11/10 17:17:37) Relayer Corps: I agree
(11/10 17:17:42) Simon_Bitdiddle: Exactly. I move that we establish the Guild of Caterers!
(11/10 17:17:43) Gadren nods his head
(11/10 17:17:54) Kono Ashi: a donut shop would be soo out of place down here. dont ruin it by putting modern shops in.
(11/10 17:18:03) Relayer Corps: You gonna run it Simon?
(11/10 17:18:03) Andy Legate: Walmart!
(11/10 17:18:07) Simon_Bitdiddle: Uh... no.
(11/10 17:18:11) Simon_Bitdiddle: I can't cook. :(
(11/10 17:18:11) Maurus: ooh, i have a question- what is a pre-guild or a supporter?
(11/10 17:18:12) GentleFire: Nobody should have all the weight of the guilds on their backs and nobody should be given that power.
(11/10 17:18:13) Relayer Corps: Can you cook?
(11/10 17:18:13) Andy Legate really ducks rocks now.
(11/10 17:18:26) JulyForToday: I think there should be a stand selling hot pockets :)
(11/10 17:18:26) GentleFire: We're in this together.
(11/10 17:18:26) Relayer Corps: exactle GentleFire
(11/10 17:18:31) Ghede REALLY struggles with a large piece of rubble.
(11/10 17:18:38) Nynaveve: Pre-guilds and supporters are those of us who are trying to get something in place for when Cyan officially announces the Guilds.
(11/10 17:18:40) Relayer Corps: dim sum
(11/10 17:18:57) Nynaveve: The supporters are the groundwork for the Guilds, but we aren't official
(11/10 17:18:58) Alahmnat: Gadren: Right after this works for me. We can even do it somewhere else and get accused of having secret private meetings... ;)
(11/10 17:19:02) Andy Legate: brb have to put roast in oven.
(11/10 17:19:05) Maurus: like a guild of linguists, or musicians?
(11/10 17:19:08) Gadren: alahm: excellent :)
(11/10 17:19:08) Relayer Corps: lol
(11/10 17:19:29) Maurus: they might be considered pre-guilds?
(11/10 17:19:31) JulyForToday: Let me rephrase that.. leaders and representatives... some, such as GoC already have leaders.. some will be a huge room of people
(11/10 17:19:47) GentleFire: oooo Can I come to the super secret meeting? Will there be pie?
(11/10 17:19:49) Nynaveve: Yes, Maurus, since nothing is sactioned by Cyan yet. :)
(11/10 17:19:59) Alahmnat: Archivists always have pie ;)
(11/10 17:20:06) Maurus: except the five that already exist?
(11/10 17:20:06) Gadren: but cartos have cake
(11/10 17:20:10) Gadren: but it is a lie :(
(11/10 17:20:15) Alahmnat: lol
(11/10 17:20:20) Nuts: No GentleFire, but there will be Pi
(11/10 17:20:23) Simon_Bitdiddle: The Guild of Writers has cookies. :(
(11/10 17:20:26) JulyForToday: But we need at least a mouth for each of the 5 guilds...
(11/10 17:20:27) Nynaveve: They don't exist yet, they are in the process. Cyan has said they WANT them to exist tho
(11/10 17:20:29) GentleFire starts to laugh
(11/10 17:20:30) Robert Starbuck: I think Cayne is waiting to see what we do.
(11/10 17:20:43) Nuts: :-P
(11/10 17:20:52) Andy Legate: Back. Son tried to eat roast raw, had to beat him off .
(11/10 17:20:55) Ghame agrees with Nynavere
(11/10 17:20:59) boogihn meesahl: Lol
(11/10 17:21:03) Relayer Corps: If Guilds would like to have newsletters distributed in the cavern, please contact Cavern Crier KI# 10307170
(11/10 17:21:05) Gadren: o_o
(11/10 17:21:10) Dudemom_2000: GoMe has the wine, cheese, crackers and anything hors dourvish
(11/10 17:21:28) Relayer Corps: Sounds good Dmom
(11/10 17:21:30) JulyForToday: So.. when are we going to hold the next meeting?
(11/10 17:21:40) Relayer Corps: next moth?
(11/10 17:21:43) Relayer Corps: month
(11/10 17:21:46) GentleFire jots down the ki number...
(11/10 17:21:46) Altydwarber: and don't forget the Kirel baked treats
(11/10 17:21:50) Andy Legate: Are we done? I have to go back to the forum and see if I have anymore hate mail.
(11/10 17:21:51) Relayer Corps: same bat time same bat channel?
(11/10 17:21:51) JulyForToday: lol :)
(11/10 17:21:53) Ghede: Well, In
(11/10 17:22:14) JulyForToday: Okay... *checking calendar..*(
(11/10 17:22:18) boogihn meesahl: Isnt it to be the first sat of the month?
(11/10 17:22:27) Relayer Corps: I thought so
(11/10 17:22:28) Alahmnat: I recall that being the plan
(11/10 17:22:35) JulyForToday: that was the idea...
(11/10 17:22:39) Maurus: a guild meeting?
(11/10 17:22:41) JulyForToday: which makes it December 1st
(11/10 17:22:43) Simon_Bitdiddle: So, in summation... What have we decided?
(11/10 17:22:43) Ghede: Anyway to abort communication on the KI without sending fragmented messages?
(11/10 17:22:45) boogihn meesahl: Ok
(11/10 17:22:46) Relayer Corps: unless it conficted with content week
(11/10 17:22:48) Ghame: Unless it was an episodic week
(11/10 17:22:54) Alahmnat: Ghede: hit escape
(11/10 17:22:56) Maurus: wait, so are the linguists officially being considered as a pre-guild?
(11/10 17:22:57) Ghede: Thanks.
(11/10 17:22:57) Simon_Bitdiddle: Press escape, Ghede
(11/10 17:23:05) Relayer Corps: Guilds will supply Cavern criers with guild newsletters?
(11/10 17:23:06) Gadren throws noodles at maurus
(11/10 17:23:07) Relayer Corps: I hope?
(11/10 17:23:12) Maurus: I know domahreh Okh D'ni has been pushing for that for a while
(11/10 17:23:25) JulyForToday: here is the Conlusion: 1.) Guild Newsletters 2.) Guild representatives
(11/10 17:23:25) Ghede: Where did you get the noodles? Did you start a catering guild while we weren't looking?
(11/10 17:23:39) Alahmnat: Maurus: I think that's up the the linguists in the community
(11/10 17:23:53) Maurus: Domahreh really wants a guild of linguists.
(11/10 17:24:02) Maurus: he founded the d'ni linguistic fellowship
(11/10 17:24:04) GentleFire: 3) all groups find a happy place within the 5 guilds till its possible to branch off on your own
(11/10 17:24:20) Alahmnat: did we decide that?
(11/10 17:24:20) Maurus: the DLF was mad when they found that the drc wasnt going to make a linguists guild
(11/10 17:24:28) JulyForToday: Should we have a sort of convention for groups that have not become Guilds yet?.. societies?
(11/10 17:24:32) Ghede laughs
(11/10 17:24:38) GentleFire: its all that can be done atm Alahmnat
(11/10 17:24:57) Dudemom_2000: that would be a nice way of including others
(11/10 17:25:03) Nynaveve: I say they call themselves pre-guilds to get the message across to DRC/Cyan
(11/10 17:25:04) Gadren: yeah, that last point hasn't been "decided," but it's something we still need to hammer out
(11/10 17:25:04) Relayer Corps dance the happy relayer dance
(11/10 17:25:10) Maurus: should I tell Domahreh that the DLF can be made into a pre-guild if he wants?
(11/10 17:25:15) JulyForToday: and for now, socities are shelter in the 5 guild system, until we can expand the proper socieites into guilds?
(11/10 17:25:33) Relayer Corps: I like that idea
(11/10 17:25:35) GentleFire nods her head
(11/10 17:25:36) Ghede: Will there be official wardrobes for full members of the guilds?
(11/10 17:25:38) Dudemom_2000: that is good
(11/10 17:25:46) Gadren throws noodles at ghede
(11/10 17:25:54) JulyForToday: Ghede> that is totally up for cyan..lol
(11/10 17:26:00) Relayer Corps: That's an idea to send to Cyan
(11/10 17:26:03) Alahmnat: I don't like that idea... groups should be able to evolve into Guilds without having to join up with and existing one in advance.
(11/10 17:26:03) Nynaveve: lol ghede. it'd be nice to see more d'ni clothing, that's for sure
(11/10 17:26:04) Ghede wants to know where Gadren is getting noodles. He must be a caterer.
(11/10 17:26:21) Nynaveve: I agree with you Alahm.
(11/10 17:26:27) Gadren: i wish i knew! i'm hungry!
(11/10 17:26:28) JulyForToday: Alahmant> I dont mean existing groups...
(11/10 17:26:34) Nynaveve: I think they should distinguish themselves as THEMSELVES.
(11/10 17:26:38) Relayer Corps: Maybe not join, just associate with?
(11/10 17:26:44) Ghede: I'm on to you Gadren, You and your fellow caterers!
(11/10 17:26:56) Gadren: ._.
(11/10 17:27:10) Dudemom_2000: that was my thought, associating with for now with the eventual forming of their own guilds at some point.
(11/10 17:27:26) Maurus: i agree with the association idea
(11/10 17:27:32) Maurus: as a TEMPORARY action
(11/10 17:27:32) Relayer Corps: that would keep them in the loop, while still remaining independant

[/spoiler]

10/17/07
09/27/07

Edit: I maxed out the character limit. Im going to work on getting an archive external to the forums. If you need a chat log, PM me.


Last edited by JulyFT on Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:43 pm 
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Just remember to bump this thread every once in awhile so people will remember it. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:10 am 
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Oh, yea...I'll forget about by that time! Do the Bump!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:38 pm 
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This meeting is tomorrow 14:00 cavern time in Kirel.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:50 pm 
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My internet problems have started so i'm gonna miss this meeting again. :(
Please post a chatlog.

Here are the few things I would have said regarding the Guild Of Messengers.

Since the last Guild meeting, a new organization was created, the Cavern Criers. They distribute News Ki Mail in the cavern. They are usually stationned in Ae'Gura and offer the Cavern Crier Newsletter to those who want it to stay informed. The group has a very small number of Criers so they cannot be in thecavern everyday.
The guild Of Messengers Website was also launched.( rel.to/gome ) The website don't create news in order to not compete with the other messaging organizations. Affiliated organizations and ANY regular explorer can post news on the website. That way, the website is more like a news conduit out of the cavern. All news are available in English, French and German. Here are the following organizations that are affiliated: Cavern Criers, Uru Radio. Other Messaging organizations are more than welcomed to contact the website to become affiliated.

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Last edited by Andros on Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:47 pm 
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Andros, the Cavern Criers are affiliated with the GOM, but as of this date, the Relayer Corps have not and are not affiliated with the GOM. At a later date that may change, but it's just not so right now. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:29 pm 
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Lynnutte, the GoMe website lists the RC on its affiliate page. I suggest that you contact Shimmer in order to remove your organization from the page until a decision has been reached amonst the Relayer members to become affiliates or not.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:44 pm 
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Well I thought today's meeting was good. Lot's of people there talking and suggesting (and talking a LOT more! :D )

I really like the idea of the KI Newsletter to explorers letting them know how the Guilds are coming and what they are up to. As I said, my wife is a Greeter, I think they could help there too.

See all of you at the next meeting.

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Ty Andros. I pmed Shimmer and I'm sure she will correct that as soon as she can.
As for the guild newsletters, please send them to Cavern Crier (KI# to follow). We will start passing them out as soon as we get them.
As a suggestion, the explorers might be interested in learning a little about some of the guild members. Maybe you could do a spotlight on one of your guild members each month. Just a suggestion, but I know it's something I would like to read about.

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Was there a chatlog for the Guild meeting?

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Look in the 2nd post of this thread, under 11/10/07.

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Thanks Andy. I finally read the chatlog. I wasn't there but to me it sounded like a little more moderation could have been done ;) A lot of different discussion at the same time and poor Relayer Corps offering Guild Newsletter at least 3-4 times until the group noticed that it solved one of their problem. :)

But I like what the meeting accomplished. Guilds should have a person to contact in each guild because it is through guild cooperation that the Main 5 will flourished and new guilds will be created. I doubt Cyan wanted us to all play in our little guild alone. The cavern has to be a society and guilds have to be able to communicate with each other.

My advice on organizations wanting to become guilds is to show Cyan that you can cooperate with other guilds just like when the GoMe works with the GoG or when GoW works with GoMa. It is just a cooperation and you don't need to affiliate yourself with the official guild. But starting to organize yourself as if you are becoming an official guild will only make it easier when Cyan will update the organization straight to official guild without going through the awkward unofficial guild process that the 4 guilds are working on.

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bump

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:35 pm
Posts: 72
Quick note:
The December 1st meeting is at 21:00 UTC time.
(The 8pm GMT mentioned in the first post is incorrect


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