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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:56 pm 
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This is the official thread for the Great Zero Maintenance and Experimentation project. It will be the primary point of contact outside of the Cavern for anyone who's interested in the project. This project is brought to you by the Guild of Maintainers, however, Guild membership is not required to participate! If you have any interest in the Great Zero, we are delighted to work with you.

Current Objectives of the GZ Project:
1) Maintain the existing Great Zero calibration
2) Experiment to try to extend the calibration to previously recorded D'ni levels (coordinates throughout the ages)
3) Experiment to try to extend the coordinates to the Nexus panel

Further objectives may be added as they are determined.

(Psst. Any other guilds want to co-sponsor the project with us? Cartographers? Love to have you on-board, just didn't get the chance to ask during the meeting.)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:18 pm 
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Summary of the first meeting:

1) A quick summation about the Zero itself
2) Discussion with Nalates about the work the Cartographers have done with the GZ coordinates.
3) Brainstorming of ideas as to how to extend the GZ's coordinate system beyond what it currently is at.
* Maintainer beacons indicate which Ages may still be sending to the GZ
* Running many missions in those Ages may help to calibrate the Zero for those Ages
* Many different kinds of missions will be needed.
* Start with Delin and Tsogal
* Delin expected to be possible to calibrate
* Tsogal will be the "control" because we do not expect to calibrate it without fixing the beacon.
* Missions to extend GZ coordinates to the Nexus -- tabled for discussion here.
4) Where to hold discussion outside the Cavern
* Discussion will be maintained here in the MOUL guilds forum
* Links to discussion will be posted in other forums.
* Marker missions will be distributed via contact here and via Explorer Exchange

Raw chatlog follows in spoiler cut:
[spoiler]
(01/31 20:46:32) Nalates: Several of my hood mates are in the bevin
(01/31 20:46:51) Jishin: If they're interested, they're welcome. The more, the merrier.
(01/31 20:46:51) Nalates: Let me see they know there is a meeting...
(01/31 20:46:59) Jishin: Shorah Ron! We're up in the auditorium.
(01/31 20:47:18) Jishin waves hello
(01/31 20:47:22) Captain_Ron: shorah
(01/31 20:47:51) Jishin: Thanks again for all your hard work getting the info together for this, by the way.
(01/31 20:47:55) Nalates: Hi Ron
(01/31 20:48:01) Captain_Ron: my pleasure
(01/31 20:48:08) Captain_Ron: hello
(01/31 20:48:29) Captain_Ron: still can't get used to everything backwards here
(01/31 20:48:42) Jishin laughs. Yeah, it gets confusing.
(01/31 20:49:02) Jishin: I think we ought to put 'repair Kirel fountain' on our ever-growing to-do list. (;
(01/31 20:49:27) Nalates: Some of the UO hood are coming.
(01/31 20:49:29) Jishin: Shorah GideaNinja!
(01/31 20:49:35) Jishin: Oh, great! (:
(01/31 20:49:48) Captain_Ron: start bring buckets of water to dump in it
(01/31 20:50:19) Jishin: We could pump it out of the lake ... wait, maybe that's not a good idea ...
(01/31 20:50:35) Captain_Ron: the fountain might start glowing
(01/31 20:50:42) Nalates: Right... It does not look drinkable
(01/31 20:50:44) Jishin: That'd be cool. (:
(01/31 20:50:52) Nalates: Yes
(01/31 20:51:05) Jishin: Kinda like the old Sea World Sparkletts Water Fantasy.(: Heh.
(01/31 20:51:16) Captain_Ron: :)
(01/31 20:51:39) Jishin: Shorah Zinkovich!
(01/31 20:51:45) Jishin: We are meeting up in the auditorium.
(01/31 20:52:07) Jishin: I have /autoshout turned on, by the way. I don't know how many people we are expecting, but I figure it can't hurt.
(01/31 20:52:35) Nalates: Doesn't sound that loud...
(01/31 20:52:36) Captain_Ron: Have you been to the Maintainers forum today
(01/31 20:52:47) Nalates: Not me.
(01/31 20:52:53) Jishin: Umm. Yes, earlier. Is there something new?
(01/31 20:53:16) Captain_Ron: it went to the phpBB style
(01/31 20:53:43) Captain_Ron: it's all weird looking
(01/31 20:53:50) Tai'lahr: Shorah y'all!
(01/31 20:53:55) Nalates: Hi
(01/31 20:53:58) Captain_Ron: Shorah
(01/31 20:54:01) Jishin: Shorah Tai'lahr! Welcome!
(01/31 20:54:09) Player added.
(01/31 20:54:15) Nalates: Has anyone followed the 'News Please' thread at GT?
(01/31 20:54:36) Tai'lahr: I have - pretty much. Why?
(01/31 20:54:37) Jishin: I haven't had a chance to get to the GameTap forums yet. I suppose I really should do that.
(01/31 20:54:49) Tai'lahr nods her head
(01/31 20:54:54) Captain_Ron: i'm checkingit now
(01/31 20:54:56) Nalates: Yeah. Check it out and make a post.
(01/31 20:55:14) Nalates: There is no real NEW news. But things are looking up a bit
(01/31 20:55:30) To Buddies: Apologies for the brief spam, but if anyone is interested in the Great Zero Maintenance/Experimentation meeting, it is starting now, in the Kirel auditorium.
(01/31 20:55:37) Nalates: The GT mod's are being more responsive.
(01/31 20:55:49) Jishin: That's good news. (:
(01/31 20:55:50) Tai'lahr: Mind if I move that cone out of the way before we start? : )
(01/31 20:55:57) Jishin: Be my guest. (:
(01/31 20:56:23) Nalates: Maintainers meeting is starting. We are in Kirel.
(01/31 20:56:25) Jishin: Well, I'm going to give people about five more minutes to show up, and then we'll get started. (:
(01/31 20:56:42) Nalates: Works for me
(01/31 20:56:51) Tai'lahr: Do you usually have a lot more people at these meetings?
(01/31 20:57:12) Jishin: It kind of depends. We didn't get a good opportunity to advertise this one. /:
(01/31 20:57:28) Tai'lahr: Oh, but your post on the MOUL forum is the only reason I'm here.
(01/31 20:57:53) Jishin: I would have liked to have given people more time to attend, and really gotten to talk with the GoCartographers.
(01/31 20:58:03) Jishin: Shorah Susi! Shorah tachzusamm!
(01/31 20:58:03) Nalates: I saw a couple of posts. I think yours, Jishin, on UO or may be MOUL.
(01/31 20:58:13) Tai'lahr: Shorah Susi & tachzusamm!
(01/31 20:58:35) tachzusamm: Shorah Jishin & Tai'lahr
(01/31 20:58:41) Tai'lahr: Ah, here they all come now. :)
(01/31 20:58:49) Francesca: Shorah
(01/31 20:58:52) Jishin: Yeah, I did post there. I would have liked to get it into the events page, though. Didn't get to that. Also, I don't know if any Cartographers will be showing up. I never heard from them.
(01/31 20:58:57) tachzusamm: Shorah Francesca
(01/31 20:58:59) Jishin: Shorah Francesca and Aurelias!
(01/31 20:59:05) Aurelias: Shorah
(01/31 20:59:28) Jishin: I'm going to give folks about one more minute and then we'll get things rolling. (:
(01/31 20:59:33) Tai'lahr: Well, I'm really just here out of curiousityy and to support the effort.
(01/31 20:59:54) Jishin: That's OK. I appreciate you coming! (:
(01/31 21:00:21) Jishin: This is not really a "Maintainers" meeting, despite the pink shirts. I hope to make this an effort that folks throughout the cavern will find interesting. (:
(01/31 21:00:45) Jishin: OK, let's get started!
(01/31 21:00:52) Nalates: OK
(01/31 21:01:07) Jishin: Welcome to the first meeting regarding the maintenance and possible upgrading of the Great Zero. (:
(01/31 21:01:45) tachzusamm: sounds interesting
(01/31 21:01:59) Jishin: How familiar are you folks with the history and general scope of th Great Zero? I don't want to bore you, but I'm glad to provide information.
(01/31 21:02:23) Nalates: I guess tell us...
(01/31 21:02:24) Tai'lahr: I think I'm pretty familiar with it, and understand it's purpose.
(01/31 21:02:40) tachzusamm: history none, general scope: only a bit
(01/31 21:03:14) Aurelias: I only know what I've read in the Kings' journals
(01/31 21:03:17) Jishin: OK. To be succinct, then, the Great Zero is one of the oldest pieces of D'ni technology still in the Cavern. It was created under Ri'neref.
(01/31 21:03:54) Jishin: Its initial purpose was to assist the Guild of Surveyors in mapping new Ages. All Ages in past times had their own link to the Great Zero, and could be mapped using the D'ni technology.
(01/31 21:04:32) Jishin: Interestingly, the coordinate system it uses is now linked into the KI.
(01/31 21:04:58) Jishin: The KI is a newer piece of technology developed by the Maintainers, and so the GZ must have been altered to support it in the past.
(01/31 21:05:41) Jishin: The Great Zero's actual mechanisms are something of a mystery, though the blue neutrino beam that flashes through Ae'gura is supposed to be how it detects location.
(01/31 21:06:19) Jishin: When we as explorers returned to the Cavern, it was not working, but by running the pre-recorded marker missions, it seems to have started working again.
(01/31 21:07:08) Jishin: Victor Laxman of the DRC does not know exactly why it started working again; it may have something to do with the marker missions, it may not.
(01/31 21:07:35) Jishin: So now here we are, and there are a few questions I'd like to pose as a jumping off point.
(01/31 21:08:06) Jishin: 1) Are the marker missions what keeps the machine calibrated?
(01/31 21:08:18) Jishin: 2) If so, are we doing enough to keep it at a correct calibration?
(01/31 21:08:39) Jishin: 3) What can we do to expand the area the Great Zero can 'see'?
(01/31 21:09:23) Jishin: That's pretty much where our discussion in the Guild of Maintainers forum has gone, and we have some ideas. We'd also like to see if you folks have ideas. (:
(01/31 21:09:43) Jishin: If there is anyone here from the Guild of Cartographers, I'd love to have them say a few words. Anyone?
(01/31 21:10:02) Nalates: That would be me...
(01/31 21:10:15) Jishin: Come on up. (:
(01/31 21:10:55) Nalates: Well, I'm not sure what we can do to spread the coords to new areas.
(01/31 21:11:14) Nalates: Originally in the first Live we had lots of problems.
(01/31 21:11:24) Nalates: The coords were wrong.
(01/31 21:11:44) Nalates: We had different ideas about which way was North, Up or Down the stairs.
(01/31 21:12:10) Nalates: Was the KI like a GPS or compass that points north or something else.
(01/31 21:12:31) Nalates: In the end the corrds were fixed and the GoC made a coordinate grid amp.
(01/31 21:12:51) Nalates: Well, not so much a grid. It was based on the polar system.
(01/31 21:13:28) Nalates: Those coords were available in several areas. Now it seems the area where coords work is much smaller.
(01/31 21:14:01) Nalates: The info we learned is on the CoG's Tech Data site.
(01/31 21:14:12) Jishin: Could we get that website address, please?
(01/31 21:14:14) Nalates: THe easy way to find it is Google Uru Maps.
(01/31 21:14:20) Jishin: Thanks. (:
(01/31 21:14:43) Nalates: The URL is http://www.cates-associates.net/uru/
(01/31 21:15:00) Nalates: A sub site of where I work.
(01/31 21:15:09) Jishin: I just poked at it; it requires a password?
(01/31 21:15:23) Nalates: I don't know what else you find intersting... ?
(01/31 21:15:39) Captain_Ron: could the maintainer stakes that are in the ground in the ages be part of this?
(01/31 21:15:46) Nalates: OH... No the server went down this after noon.
(01/31 21:16:00) Jishin: Aah, OK. I'll look at it later, then. Thanks. (:
(01/31 21:16:01) Nalates: It is supposed to be up they tell me real soon...
(01/31 21:16:32) 'Maanlicht: shorah all
(01/31 21:16:32) Nalates: Which is a bummer because I have stuff on there for a cleint...
(01/31 21:16:33) Jishin: One of the things I was wondering is if the GoC uses the D'ni mapping system for all of the Ages, or if they wanted to.
(01/31 21:16:40) Jishin: Shorah 'Maanlicht!
(01/31 21:17:03) Nalates: We tried to... well that depends on what you mean by the D'ni Mapping System.
(01/31 21:17:06) Nalates: If you mean
(01/31 21:17:12) Nalates: coords... we trued.
(01/31 21:17:22) Nalates: tried
(01/31 21:17:24) Jishin nods her head
(01/31 21:17:44) Nalates: That made some interesting problems.
(01/31 21:17:48) Tai'lahr: I'm not quite sure I understand how the Great Zero can be used in other ages. How could it possibly reach them?
(01/31 21:17:54) Nalates: Kirel is an oddball
(01/31 21:18:26) Nalates: We used to have coords in Bevin and Kirel.
(01/31 21:18:27) Jishin: Tai'lahr -- we know that it used to, but not exactly how. The Maintainer Stakes that Ron was referring to are believed to be the method of inter-Age coordinate communication.
(01/31 21:18:39) Tai'lahr: Oh, okay.
(01/31 21:18:58) Nalates: It has been too long since I used them in the first Live to remember how far they reached.
(01/31 21:19:17) Jishin nods. Regardless, they don't reach here now, correct?
(01/31 21:19:30) Tai'lahr: So, in each age, the Maintainer's Marker would be "ground zero" for that age?
(01/31 21:19:37) Jishin: Or do they? *checks her KI* It seems they do?
(01/31 21:19:44) Nalates: I have not tried market missions to see if I get age coords in other ages.
(01/31 21:19:50) Nalates: Anyone?
(01/31 21:19:55) Jishin: Tai'lahr -- yes, that's the theory.
(01/31 21:19:55) Tai'lahr: No, I don't believe you do.
(01/31 21:20:04) Aurelias: The Maintainer Stake in Teledahn blinks. Does the GoM or GoC know the reason for this?
(01/31 21:20:04) Jishin: Currently, no, no other Ages have actual coordinates.
(01/31 21:20:16) tachzusamm: I already tried that, Nalates
(01/31 21:20:29) Jishin: The one in Eder Kemo blinks too, and no, we're not sure why either.
(01/31 21:20:33) Tai'lahr: Perhaps Sharper worked on that one, and it's more or less operational than others?
(01/31 21:20:41) tachzusamm: but the result was much distorted
(01/31 21:21:07) Captain_Ron: like the GZ marker missions it will take multiple calibrations to lock it in
(01/31 21:21:13) Jishin: So I think now we kind of get into the discussion and idea-generating part of the exercise, unless anyone has more questions for Nalates?
(01/31 21:21:34) Nalates: If not I'll sit down...
(01/31 21:22:41) Jishin: So we've been discussing this a bit over at the GoMa forums, and we think that maybe if we do some work with what we've got available, perhaps we can improve the current condition of the Great Zero. The question is how.
(01/31 21:23:04) Captain_Ron: What would be the best way to
(01/31 21:23:12) Jishin: (And strictly OOC: No, none of us have access to Cyan's code or anything. This would be purely IC and experimental; don't expect immediate results.)
(01/31 21:23:20) Tai'lahr: Perhaps by creating marker missions similar to the ones used in the cavern?
(01/31 21:23:46) Captain_Ron: thats were i was going
(01/31 21:24:04) Tai'lahr: I don't know how they were created or how they work, but it seems that would be the method to follow.
(01/31 21:24:46) Jishin: Yes, that's definitely a possibility. I think it would be a question of how to get the information back to the Zero. Perhaps it would be a good idea to start with an Age that has a functional beacon.
(01/31 21:24:56) Jishin: Or at least a beacon that we *think* is functional.
(01/31 21:25:03) Tai'lahr nods her head
(01/31 21:25:10) Captain_Ron: and right now thier are only two ages
(01/31 21:25:24) Nalates: Two?
(01/31 21:25:37) Gabby: I have a marker game that is stuck on loading can i fix it?
(01/31 21:25:42) Jishin: Hmm. Well, Teledahn's and Eder Gira's both blink. I want to say that Eder Delin might work too.
(01/31 21:25:58) Captain_Ron: right
(01/31 21:26:01) Nalates: Does Gahreseen blink?
(01/31 21:26:05) Captain_Ron: no
(01/31 21:26:09) Tai'lahr: Gabby, OOC - you need to submit a ticket on that to Cyan Support.
(01/31 21:26:16) Jishin: Gabby, if it is persisting through quitting out entirely, then you're probably going to need Cyan's help.
(01/31 21:26:19) Gabby: Ok thanks
(01/31 21:26:20) Nalates: IS it solid on or off?
(01/31 21:26:35) Captain_Ron: more like pulsing
(01/31 21:26:36) Jishin: The one outside doesn't blink. I'm not sure about the ones inside.
(01/31 21:26:50) Captain_Ron: that doesn't either
(01/31 21:27:06) Nalates: I think the one outside is the age's marker.
(01/31 21:27:10) Jishin: We think that solid means it's off, as it doesn't produce light if it's solid and not pulsing.
(01/31 21:27:39) Jishin: Nalates -- I agree, but I wonder about the one in the floor. Was it driven in by accident or on purpose?
(01/31 21:28:23) Nalates: I don't remember one IN the floor. There is the one you can kick aruound. Is that what you mean?
(01/31 21:28:26) Captain_Ron: i think it's a clue
(01/31 21:28:53) Jishin: I don't think that one's kickable any more, but I could be mistaken. It's been a bit since I've been to that area of Gahreesen.
(01/31 21:29:00) Captain_Ron: for what we're working on
(01/31 21:29:07) tachzusamm: I cannot follow. When talking about "beacon", do mean those Maintainer Markers?
(01/31 21:29:23) Jishin: tachzusamm -- yes, that's what we're discussing.
(01/31 21:29:33) tachzusamm: ok, thank you
(01/31 21:29:57) Captain_Ron: the ones in the ground
(01/31 21:30:02) Jishin: Excuse me, one moment to check my notes.
(01/31 21:30:04) tachzusamm: yes
(01/31 21:30:23) Gabby: The light in city used to turn red now it stays blue will it turn red again?
(01/31 21:30:48) Gabby: Soorry i was out of turn
(01/31 21:31:41) Jishin: No, that's fine. I don't think the light in the city is likely to turn red again, unless the GZ loses calibration.
(01/31 21:31:57) Gabby: Oh
(01/31 21:32:04) Jishin: The other thing I wanted to bring to the table, because Dot is currently unable to make the meeting, is a note about the Nexus.
(01/31 21:32:34) Jishin: I'm sure you've noted the 000 000 00000 numbers in the Nexus panel near the various city locations.
(01/31 21:32:47) Tai'lahr nods her head
(01/31 21:32:49) Francesca nods
(01/31 21:33:00) Jishin: General conjecture is that those are also GZ coordinates, but for some reason the Nexus isn't receiving them.
(01/31 21:33:23) Tai'lahr: That's actually kind of a scary thought.
(01/31 21:33:31) Jishin: So perhaps we can also experiment to try to work out what is wrong there, and fix that.
(01/31 21:33:35) Tai'lahr: That we're at the mercy of faulty technology here.
(01/31 21:34:01) Nalates: No. I think it is because the DRC wrapped the Nexus in tinfole to protect it.
(01/31 21:34:13) Tai'lahr giggles
(01/31 21:34:15) Jishin: Well, the Nexus is a different Age. Perhaps its beacon is out.
(01/31 21:34:59) Nalates: Does the KI read coords in Nexus? I forget.
(01/31 21:35:03) tachzusamm: Maybe the display digits in Nexus just need some oil...
(01/31 21:35:05) Jishin: There were some suggestions that we could try setting up marker missions that are linked to the various Nexus pedestals, for example.
(01/31 21:35:28) Jishin: I don't believe you get coordinates in the Nexus.
(01/31 21:35:54) Tai'lahr: That sounds like a reasonable experiment to start with.
(01/31 21:36:19) Gabby: Where would we have access to marker missions other than calabration ones?
(01/31 21:36:29) Jishin: We'd have to create them, Gabby.
(01/31 21:36:40) Gabby: Oh fun
(01/31 21:36:49) Tai'lahr: Shorah Dot!
(01/31 21:36:56) Jishin: Dot! Welcome!
(01/31 21:37:04) Nalates looks around for a bit
(01/31 21:37:05) tachzusamm: Shorah Dot
(01/31 21:37:06) Jishin: We were just talking about your Nexus ideas.
(01/31 21:37:10) Francesca: Shorah Dot
(01/31 21:37:14) :dot:: Shorah everyone
(01/31 21:37:17) Gabby: Hi dot
(01/31 21:37:22) Ural: Hello
(01/31 21:37:25) :dot:: My apologies for the late arrival
(01/31 21:37:27) Nalates: Hi
(01/31 21:37:33) Jishin: No problem. (:
(01/31 21:37:36) :dot:: had lots of problems getting down here
(01/31 21:37:45) :dot:: took an hour in all
(01/31 21:37:52) Tai'lahr: ouch
(01/31 21:37:59) Jishin: At least you made it. (: That's the important part.
(01/31 21:38:17) Jishin: We're discussing the possibility of creating some marker missions now.
(01/31 21:39:01) Jishin: I think there are two things we want to look at, right? Getting coordinates in Ages outside of the Cavern, and getting coordinates to the Nexus.
(01/31 21:39:13) :dot:: Yes: that's right
(01/31 21:39:38) Captain_Ron: should there be a surtain title to diff from calibration and explorer games
(01/31 21:40:16) Jishin: There should be, but right now, all we have are explorer games. Perhaps we can figure out how to upload stuff to the calibration machine specifically later. I believe we could talk with Laxman about that.
(01/31 21:40:31) Susi: Shorah Alty
(01/31 21:40:59) Jishin: So right now, let me put it to you folks: what Age would you like to work on?
(01/31 21:41:17) :dot:: It might be that we can develop, test and refine particular explorer games and then get them into calibration mode
(01/31 21:41:34) Jishin: Dot -- yeah, that would be a good start! (:
(01/31 21:41:39) Tai'lahr: Which one is the best suited for this?
(01/31 21:41:48) Aurelias: If Delin is one of the ages you suspect has a semi-functional Maintainer Marker, I would choose that one.
(01/31 21:42:07) Tai'lahr: And, it's small. :)
(01/31 21:42:08) Jishin: My thoughts would be that the Eders would be the right choice, for several rasons.
(01/31 21:42:11) Aurelias: It's small, for one. And it's easy to get people into the same instance.
(01/31 21:42:12) Jishin: Small is one of them. (:
(01/31 21:42:19) Jishin: Yes, exactly.
(01/31 21:42:34) Jishin: And since Tsogal has a solid marker, we could set up missions for it as a 'control'.
(01/31 21:42:44) Tai'lahr nods her head
(01/31 21:42:50) Jishin: So in case we're wrong about which one is on ... (:
(01/31 21:42:52) Gabby: Shoot i have to go did not want to miss this but i have to see you all later lol
(01/31 21:43:00) Jishin: Thanks for coming, Gabby! (:
(01/31 21:43:14) Captain_Ron: by Gabby
(01/31 21:43:35) Gabby: Bye take notes lol
(01/31 21:43:42) Jishin: We'll post a chatlog. (:
(01/31 21:43:51) Gabby: Thanks
(01/31 21:44:17) Jishin: I think at this point, we'd want to work out specifics in more detail. What goes into a good calibration mission?
(01/31 21:44:33) Jishin: That might be too much for this particular discussion, so maybe it would be better to move that to a forum.
(01/31 21:44:35) Tai'lahr: Variety of locations?
(01/31 21:45:02) Jishin: Variety, yes. Height, width, and length of the Age, I'd think?
(01/31 21:45:10) :dot:: Perhaps developing a grid-like network?
(01/31 21:45:10) Aurelias: I would think some mission should cover a broad area, while others should be concentrated.
(01/31 21:45:11) Tai'lahr nods her head
(01/31 21:45:32) Aurelias: Perhaps the concentrated ones would offer greater precision to the calibration?
(01/31 21:45:37) Jishin: And definitely take advantage of prominent geographical features.
(01/31 21:45:49) Jishin nodsnods at Aurelias.
(01/31 21:45:59) Captain_Ron: should we set up one mission for the 2 ages age or multiple
(01/31 21:46:05) :dot:: Would it be worth setting up one to denote a zero line?
(01/31 21:46:13) Jishin: A grid is a good idea too. We could set up lots of different missions.
(01/31 21:46:24) Jishin: Oo, that's a good idea, Dot. Isn't there one like that in Ae'gura?
(01/31 21:46:25) :dot:: then others based on that zero line to finetune the grid?
(01/31 21:46:28) Captain_Ron: k
(01/31 21:47:10) Jishin: Out of curiosity, has anyone superimposed the Ae'gura markers on the Ae'gura map?
(01/31 21:47:16) :dot:: Frisky Badger mentioned one on the forum.
(01/31 21:47:27) Tai'lahr: Um, I know this might be getting away from the "science" of this project, but what about a mission that hits all of the Yeesha cloths there?
(01/31 21:47:40) Jishin: Can't hurt. (: Why not?
(01/31 21:47:53) :dot:: That would be a good mapping exercise too :-)
(01/31 21:47:56) Tai'lahr: I mena, you never know, maybe those spots were chosen for a reason.
(01/31 21:48:05) Tai'lahr: ^mean
(01/31 21:48:09) Aurelias: Excellent point, Tai'lahr.
(01/31 21:48:41) Jishin: Ron -- I think it would be better to do separate missions for each Age, that way we don't feed Rezeero too much information.
(01/31 21:48:55) Jishin: That is a really good point, Tai'lahr.
(01/31 21:48:58) Captain_Ron: got it
(01/31 21:49:26) Jishin: Though doing one that spanned them both might provide "this is Delin, this is Tsogal" information ... i don't know. Thoughts?
(01/31 21:49:47) :dot:: For starters, might be best to keep them separate
(01/31 21:50:15) :dot:: We don't exactly know the mechanisms that apply, so keep the variables to a minimum
(01/31 21:50:24) Jishin: Makes sense.
(01/31 21:50:28) Tai'lahr: Has anyone ever overlaid the cloth locafions from both to see if there's anything significant to them?
(01/31 21:50:33) Captain_Ron: i guess what i'm getting at is for control reasons that multiple explorers work on the same group of missions
(01/31 21:50:49) Jishin: I don't know. It would be worth checking out.
(01/31 21:50:49) Tai'lahr: That's a good idea.
(01/31 21:50:53) Jishin: Ron -- yep, good idea.
(01/31 21:51:14) Tai'lahr: When the missions are ready, I'll help promote them to get Explorers to use them.
(01/31 21:51:28) Captain_Ron: there still can be five misions in an age, just that we all work on the same five
(01/31 21:51:36) Jishin: I think we've gotten a good start on this. We still need to poke at the idea of the Nexus missions a bit. Also, I would like to discusswhat the best way to communicate this information is.
(01/31 21:51:36) Nalates: One of the things I do is post in the Pubs.
(01/31 21:51:37) Altydwarber (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(01/31 21:52:09) Tai'lahr: Who are you communicating it to? The Explorers in general?
(01/31 21:52:17) Jishin: I'm thinking that we can post the missions in the Explorer Exchange, but if we'd like to have dialogue and planning outside the Cavern, where's best for everyone?
(01/31 21:52:23) Captain_Ron: how does every one feel if the maintainers set up the missions and the send them out
(01/31 21:52:24) Jishin nods at Tai'lahr.
(01/31 21:52:41) Jishin: I think anyone ought to be able to creat ethe missions. (: The more the better.
(01/31 21:52:51) Captain_Ron: right
(01/31 21:53:01) Nalates: There are some 'global' calendars out there. I don't know that anyone of them has taken over.
(01/31 21:53:03) :dot:: Yes, lots of different skills in the community -- let's tap into them
(01/31 21:53:17) Tai'lahr: Well, have the dialogue on the Maintainer forum, but post to all the others to direct people to go there.
(01/31 21:53:52) :dot:: It might be worth developing a webpage on the Maintainer site -- perhaps in blog style
(01/31 21:54:02) Jishin: I don't think it's purely a Maintainer thing, and there are a lot of forums already ... a blog idea might not be too bad.
(01/31 21:54:10) Jishin: I know a lot of folks don't want to go all over the place for their information.
(01/31 21:54:12) Nalates: Be sure to post in GT forums. It pulls the new people to our groups.
(01/31 21:54:26) Tai'lahr: Oh, I thought the Maintainers had a site and forums already.
(01/31 21:54:31) :dot:: Yes, we do
(01/31 21:54:34) Jishin nods at Nalates. Very important.
(01/31 21:54:38) Nalates: Jishin, you are right. I check about 4 forums now.
(01/31 21:54:56) Jishin: We do -- I just don't think people want to join *more* forums. (: Am I right? (:
(01/31 21:55:11) Nalates: I suspect so.
(01/31 21:55:16) Captain_Ron: when your right your right
(01/31 21:55:20) Nalates: I am slow to join new forums.
(01/31 21:55:23) Jishin: So perhaps we can host the discussion someplace where there are lots of people already? Like MOUL or UO or drcsite?
(01/31 21:55:40) Jishin: Or GT, I haven't been on that forum yet.
(01/31 21:55:41) Tai'lahr: In the Guild Section of the MOUL and on the DRC site.
(01/31 21:55:43) :dot:: MOUL would be good, on the guilds section maybe
(01/31 21:55:49) Nalates: I am present on UO most often and MOUL next.
(01/31 21:56:00) Aurelias: My vote would be for MOUL.
(01/31 21:56:07) Tai'lahr nods her head
(01/31 21:56:11) Jishin: I'm most frequently on MOUL and GoMa.
(01/31 21:56:15) Captain_Ron: GT not really set up for easy uru foruming
(01/31 21:56:22) Captain_Ron: i like MOUL
(01/31 21:56:24) Jishin: MOUL, then?
(01/31 21:56:26) :dot:: Same here, Jishin :-)
(01/31 21:56:30) Francesca: ok
(01/31 21:56:41) Tai'lahr: GT would be good for just promoting the idea and then directing them to the discussion.
(01/31 21:56:49) Captain_Ron: true
(01/31 21:56:53) Jishin: OK. I'll put the chatlog and stuff in the Guilds section for now, and we can see if the mods need it moved. (:
(01/31 21:56:54) :dot:: I've noticed that the guilds section tends to be a bit quiet at the moment on MOUL
(01/31 21:56:57) Francesca nods
(01/31 21:57:00) :dot:: so activity would be a good thing
(01/31 21:57:08) Tai'lahr nods her head
(01/31 21:57:10) Nalates: Having a central place is handy for everyone. Sounds like MOUL
(01/31 21:57:11) Jishin: Posting to GT and pointing them at it should work, I think. (:
(01/31 21:57:19) Jishin: Cool. Good stuff. (:
(01/31 21:57:50) Nalates: On a side note, having people participate in GT's forum helps the game presence on GT.
(01/31 21:58:03) Jishin: Yeah, that's what I heard. We should get some people over there. (:
(01/31 21:58:29) Tai'lahr: I go over there all the time, but can't think of anything relevant to say there. heh
(01/31 21:58:31) Jishin: So I think all we have left to discuss is distribution of marker games as people create them, and waht to do about possibly doing Nexus games.
(01/31 21:58:35) Nalates: There is concern about when and if a 2nd season will happen. NDA's have things tied up on the info level.
(01/31 21:59:01) Tai'lahr: We need to move forward as if that wasn't an issue.
(01/31 21:59:07) Jishin nodsnods. I think we'll be fine on a 2nd season -- if they're running ads for Uru on Cartoon Network, we're fine.
(01/31 21:59:08) :dot:: Yes, I agree
(01/31 21:59:10) Francesca: right
(01/31 21:59:25) Nalates: Posting the new marker games at MOUL in a thread is good.
(01/31 21:59:48) Nalates: Perhaps someone will voulteer to up the initial post with new missions.
(01/31 21:59:49) Jishin: We could also use the Explorer Exchange, though that does add another site to deal with.
(01/31 22:00:12) :dot:: But that might catch other explorers who specialise in marker missions
(01/31 22:00:28) Jishin: Yep, and the more warm bodies, the better. (:
(01/31 22:00:38) Nalates: In marketing we hit all the places people hang.
(01/31 22:00:41) Jishin: I mean, look how many we needed to get Ae'gura calibrated.
(01/31 22:00:50) Nalates: We don't make people come looking for us.
(01/31 22:01:02) Jishin nods at Nalates. Makes sense.
(01/31 22:01:41) Nalates: Posting on MOUL is good. But someone has to tell the UO peole, the GT people, the GoW... etc.
(01/31 22:02:01) :dot:: Is there anyone from GoMe who could help with that?
(01/31 22:02:04) Jishin: Yes. Getting the word out is going to be important.
(01/31 22:02:25) Nalates: I have had to post on many forums and in my Hood and the Pub.
(01/31 22:02:29) Jishin: We could mosey over to their forums and ask them for their help.
(01/31 22:02:31) Tai'lahr: I can post to GT and to GoG.
(01/31 22:03:05) Tai'lahr: Once you get the initial post up on MOUL, it will be easy to post elsewhere and just refer to it.
(01/31 22:03:16) Nalates: I am not much of an organizer. Lots of independents in the GoC.
(01/31 22:03:22) Jishin: Yep. We'll get that started post-meetings today. (:
(01/31 22:03:28) Nalates: I go into a forum and search for the event.
(01/31 22:03:36) Nalates: If it is not there I post it.
(01/31 22:03:43) Jishin: I'm glad you came, Nalates. (: Thanks much.
(01/31 22:03:54) Captain_Ron: yes thank you
(01/31 22:03:57) Nalates: Thanks.
(01/31 22:04:11) Tai'lahr: Yes, this was a very productive meeting, I believe. Good work. :)
(01/31 22:04:18) Jishin: Yeah, good job, folks. (:
(01/31 22:04:36) Jishin: This is feeling like a good time to wrap up. I know we haven't gotten the Nexus stuff all banged out, but do we want to do that on the forum?
(01/31 22:04:47) Francesca: thank you Jishin for organizing this
(01/31 22:05:03) Jishin: No problem. I had good help. (Thanks, Ron and Dot. You rock.)
(01/31 22:05:06) Nalates: Yes, thnkas Jishin!!!
(01/31 22:05:09) Aurelias claps her hands
(01/31 22:05:10) :dot:: Yes, thank you Jishin. We need to save some projects for later too!
(01/31 22:05:11) Nalates cheers
(01/31 22:05:15) Tai'lahr claps her hands
(01/31 22:05:16) :dot: claps her hands
(01/31 22:05:21) Francesca cheers
(01/31 22:05:24) tachzusamm claps his hands
(01/31 22:05:29) Captain_Ron claps his hands
(01/31 22:05:29) Susi claps her hands
(01/31 22:05:30) Jishin: I am so excited. Let's do this! (:
(01/31 22:05:32) Jishin cheers
(01/31 22:05:35) Tai'lahr cheers
(01/31 22:05:38) Nalates claps her hands
(01/31 22:05:38) Francesca claps her hands
(01/31 22:05:39) Thumbs up from :dot:
(01/31 22:05:53) Jishin: OK, I'm getting down from there now. (;
(01/31 22:05:59) Tai'lahr: hehe
(01/31 22:06:01) Jishin: Ah, much better. (:
(01/31 22:06:02) Nalates: I have to go. I'll try to be back tonight.
(01/31 22:06:06) Nalates: Bye all.
(01/31 22:06:10) Jishin: Oh, great. (: Thank you! (:
(01/31 22:06:11) :dot:: See you Nalates
(01/31 22:06:14) Francesca: bye
(01/31 22:06:17) Jishin: See you this evening! 9:
(01/31 22:06:17) Nalates (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(01/31 22:06:28) Tai'lahr: Good bye, everyone. Shorah!
(01/31 22:06:35) Captain_Ron: should we head to Eder Delin to look and talk about how markers could be place
(01/31 22:06:35) Jishin: Well, heh ... I probably oughta get back to work. Thanks everyone for the great meeting. (:
(01/31 22:06:38) :dot:: Bye Tai'lahr
(01/31 22:06:44) Francesca: goodbye Tai'lar
(01/31 22:06:48) Jishin: Mm. I could do that *briefly*, Ron. But briefly.
(01/31 22:06:51) Susi: see you
(01/31 22:06:56) :dot:: Thanks for the meeting in European time,
(01/31 22:07:01) :dot:: Much appreciated!
(01/31 22:07:09) Jishin: Oh, sure. (: Glad I could manage that for ya. (:
(01/31 22:07:11) Francesca: yes, many thanks
(01/31 22:07:22) Jishin: Where's the nearest Delin?
(01/31 22:07:30) Captain_Ron: would there be more time for the next gathering
(01/31 22:07:31) :dot:: If you want some help with ediitng chat logs, I'd be happy to ehlp
(01/31 22:07:40) Jishin: Oh, that'd be very spiffy. Thank you.
(01/31 22:07:41) Aurelias (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(01/31 22:07:42) Captain_Ron: Greeters bevin
(01/31 22:07:46) :dot:: I was intending to be here to do that, but....
(01/31 22:07:56) Jishin: It's cool. I have it. (:
(01/31 22:08:09) Jishin: Well, to Delin?
(01/31 22:08:10) Captain_Ron: thats fine
(01/31 22:08:22) :dot:: Think the GoMa forum allows us to post files so I could pick it up from there
(01/31 22:08:30) Jishin: Sure.
(01/31 22:08:32) :dot:: I'll see you later gurs
(01/31 22:08:36) :dot:: guys
(01/31 22:08:40) Jishin: see ya, dot!
(01/31 22:08:44) :dot:: Have fun!
(01/31 22:08:46) tachzusamm: bye dot
(01/31 22:08:51) Captain_Ron: bye
[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:21 am 
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 8:47 pm
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Second meeting went similarly to the first.

Other important items we need to address:

1) Map of Eder Delin and Eder Tsogal, to plan the marker missions on
2) Discussion of what makes a good calibration-style mission
3) Discussion of who will maintain the mission repository in-cavern
* Everyone can pass the missions along, but someone needs to keep backup copies/be contactable for mission requests
4) How many different missions will be sufficient for potential calibration of a small Age?
5) Contact Laxman and inquire about GZ technology.
* How does calibration work?
* Can user-generated missions potentially be transformed into calibration missions for an Age?
6) Discussion of data repository
* Keeping track of functional Maintainer beacons
* Keeping track of dialogue about the calibration process
* Keeping track of what missions have been created, who created them, what their themes are
* Other data as necessary
* Where do we store this data?

Raw chatlog is available behind the spoiler cut:
[spoiler]
(02/01 03:57:10) Chat.log started...
(02/01 03:57:39) [ Auto Shout Enabled ]
(02/01 03:57:50) Jishin: Hiya folks! Are you here for the Great Zero meeting?
(02/01 03:57:59) Jishin: We'll be starting in just a few minutes.
(02/01 03:58:49) Valdez: just in time
(02/01 03:58:50) Jishin: Shorah Valdez!
(02/01 03:58:54) Jishin: Yep! (:
(02/01 03:58:54) Valdez: hello
(02/01 03:58:56) Valdez: er
(02/01 03:59:05) Valdez: Shorah Gild Master
(02/01 03:59:11) Valdez: *Guild
(02/01 03:59:18) Jishin laughs. Titles are totally not necessary. (:
(02/01 03:59:37) Jishin: (But thanks. (; I feel flattered. (: )
(02/01 03:59:44) Valdez: this is about the GZ right?
(02/01 03:59:48) Jishin: Yep, sure is.
(02/01 03:59:48) Bucky T (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(02/01 03:59:50) splash1: hey all
(02/01 04:00:00) Jishin: Hiya splash! Here for the GZ meeting?
(02/01 04:00:04) splash1 nods his head
(02/01 04:00:09) Jishin: Great! (:
(02/01 04:00:09) kentb_james (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(02/01 04:00:25) Jishin: I figure I'll give folks another minute or two to show up, and then we'll get started.
(02/01 04:00:32) Valdez: the button glows but it doesn't work
(02/01 04:00:39) splash1: dat sucks
(02/01 04:00:43) Jishin: Yeah, Kirel seems to have lots of things that don't work ... /:
(02/01 04:00:53) splash1: like the Egg room
(02/01 04:00:58) splash1: that's my fav in Kirel
(02/01 04:00:59) Jishin: Ron and I were talking about fixing up the fountain with some lake water earlier.
(02/01 04:01:10) Valdez: what exacly about the GZ?
(02/01 04:01:12) Valdez: hmmm
(02/01 04:01:19) Valdez: taht would be nice
(02/01 04:01:22) splash1: yes that would be nice
(02/01 04:01:41) splash1: except yellow water doesn't look good in a fountain
(02/01 04:01:52) Jishin: Well, a few things about the GZ. For starters, we don't really know much about how it got calibrated in the first place, so we're not sure if the calibration is being sufficiently maintained.
(02/01 04:02:15) Jishin: Second, we know that the Zero used to have more functionality than it does now.
(02/01 04:02:15) Valdez: Laxman did it for one thing
(02/01 04:02:18) From MustardJeep in MustardJeep's Relto: :)
(02/01 04:02:22) To MustardJeep in MustardJeep's Relto: (:
(02/01 04:02:36) Jishin: Laxman himself said that he's not sure exactly why it started working.
(02/01 04:02:53) splash1: it's becausse he's evil
(02/01 04:02:59) Valdez: the Yahvo did it
(02/01 04:03:02) Jishin: Anyway -- the Zero used to be functional not only in Ae'gura, but also throughout the other Ages.
(02/01 04:03:05) splash1: he used his evil energy to start it
(02/01 04:03:15) Valdez: cool
(02/01 04:03:16) splash1: i thought so
(02/01 04:03:27) Jishin: Currently, that's not working, and that's the main thing that we would like to focus on.
(02/01 04:03:39) Valdez: shroah Guild Master!
(02/01 04:03:42) Valdez: again
(02/01 04:03:43) Jishin: Shorah MustardJeep! (:
(02/01 04:03:48) From MustardJeep: hi
(02/01 04:03:52) MustardJeep: hi
(02/01 04:03:58) Jishin waves hello
(02/01 04:04:05) splash1: hi Mustard
(02/01 04:04:06) MustardJeep waves hello
(02/01 04:04:12) Valdez: how do you get blender to update?
(02/01 04:04:16) Jishin: We just got started. You haven't missed anything. (:
(02/01 04:04:20) MustardJeep: oh good
(02/01 04:04:33) MustardJeep: Valdex the script windw
(02/01 04:04:37) Jishin: Valdez -- that I don't know the answer to. You might want to check with the GoWriters, or with andylegate.
(02/01 04:04:44) Jishin: Or MJ. (;
(02/01 04:04:50) Valdez: ohhhh
(02/01 04:04:59) Valdez is blind
(02/01 04:05:16) MustardJeep: OOOOh I shouldn't have opened my mouth
(02/01 04:05:19) Jishin: (I can't hear you guys, by the way. Have the sound turned off because there are others in the room.)
(02/01 04:05:32) Valdez has NO common sence
(02/01 04:06:12) MustardJeep: I belive that the GoW's have a good tutorial on their forum on how to install the plugin
(02/01 04:06:24) Jishin: Anyway ... so we were just starting to talk about trying to extend the GZ's functionality into the Ages.
(02/01 04:06:33) MustardJeep: probably best to do it that way then try and describe the whole process via chat
(02/01 04:07:08) splash1: a mini GZ in each age??
(02/01 04:07:32) MustardJeep: well that is the basic idea of the Maintainer Marks
(02/01 04:07:36) Jishin: The general consensus that we've heard before is that those nifty Maintainer marks actually transmit or receive GZ information.
(02/01 04:08:12) Jishin: So the next question is: why aren't they working? (:
(02/01 04:08:16) Valdez: oh those things
(02/01 04:08:47) Valdez: they havn't been maintiained in so long!
(02/01 04:08:49) splash1: or have a GZbeam admit from the KI
(02/01 04:09:03) Jishin: Yeah, most of them are broken and dark.
(02/01 04:09:12) Jishin: However, there are a few that are still working, we think.
(02/01 04:09:27) Valdez: we need to make new ones and yank the old out
(02/01 04:09:28) Jishin: The markers in Teledahn, Eder Kemo, and Eder Delin all are blinking and glowing.
(02/01 04:09:39) Valdez: I was just going to say that
(02/01 04:09:41) splash1: there is one in Tsogal
(02/01 04:09:50) Jishin: Yes, but it doesn't seem to be functional.
(02/01 04:09:51) splash1: but it is broken due to water
(02/01 04:10:06) Vexis: Gahreesen has one as well.
(02/01 04:10:06) Jishin: There is also one near the KI dispenser in Gahreesen that is glowing, but not blinking.
(02/01 04:10:12) Valdez: they look waterproof
(02/01 04:10:20) Jishin: The one on the outside in Gahreesen is not working.
(02/01 04:10:23) Vexis: On a plateau outside.
(02/01 04:10:30) splash1: there are many in Gahreesen
(02/01 04:10:33) Valdez: yes i noticed it
(02/01 04:10:38) Vexis: I believe the one on the plateau is.
(02/01 04:10:39) splash1: mostly because that is where they come from
(02/01 04:10:48) Jishin: Vexis -- it's not; I checked recently.
(02/01 04:10:53) Vexis: OK
(02/01 04:10:58) MustardJeep: The one in gahreesen is on the platue outside like valdez says
(02/01 04:11:12) Jishin: There are two planted in the ground in Gahreesen.
(02/01 04:11:22) Jishin: There is one near the KI dispenser, and one on the plateau.
(02/01 04:11:22) MustardJeep: the ones in the ki room are spare parts probably
(02/01 04:11:33) Valdez: of course they are
(02/01 04:11:45) Jishin: There are several that are not planted in the ground, yes, and I'd assume those are spares, but there is actually one in the ground there.
(02/01 04:11:51) Valdez: they arn't planted in the ground
(02/01 04:11:59) Valdez: oh
(02/01 04:12:02) MustardJeep: You used to be able to kick that one.......
(02/01 04:12:06) Jishin: You can't any more.
(02/01 04:12:06) splash1: yeah
(02/01 04:12:19) Valdez: physics engine bug
(02/01 04:12:20) splash1: well you could but Cyan broke the kickable objects
(02/01 04:12:39) Valdez: dang you Ageia!
(02/01 04:12:39) Jishin: Anyway, at the previous meeting, we discussed possible ways of trying to get the Zero to recognize other Ages.
(02/01 04:12:49) MustardJeep: do tell
(02/01 04:12:57) Valdez: fix the markers!
(02/01 04:13:26) splash1: or create small energy tubes that tranfer the beam into other ages
(02/01 04:13:27) Jishin: Well, there are markers that appear to be working.
(02/01 04:13:38) casey evans: hey
(02/01 04:13:40) Valdez: but they aren
(02/01 04:13:47) Jishin: So the thought we had is that perhaps the other Ages also need calibration.
(02/01 04:13:49) Phil Mandrake: hey all
(02/01 04:13:56) Valdez: they could
(02/01 04:14:00) Valdez: but how?
(02/01 04:14:00) Vexis: Interesting.
(02/01 04:14:01) Jishin: Shorah, folks! We're in the auditorium.
(02/01 04:14:41) Jishin: We thought the best way to do that would be to craft a variety of marker missions for an Age with what we think is a functional beacon.
(02/01 04:15:02) Valdez: and replace the broken ones
(02/01 04:15:09) Valdez: I like the idea
(02/01 04:15:23) Jishin: We can use the current missions as a model, and try to really cover the scope of the Age.
(02/01 04:15:50) Jishin: Now -- it's worth noting that perhaps the Zero doesn't really 'read' user-generated missions that way.
(02/01 04:16:01) Valdez: no
(02/01 04:16:11) Jishin: I think we're going to need to do some more research and see if we can contact Laxman about how some of this stuff works.
(02/01 04:16:19) Valdez: it's not the right type
(02/01 04:16:20) splash1: ummm
(02/01 04:16:23) splash1: that won't work
(02/01 04:16:35) splash1: Laxman is a Cyan character
(02/01 04:16:38) Jishin: I know he's very busy, but he does at least send the pellet point information back.
(02/01 04:16:46) Valdez: we need to make the GZ make the missions itself
(02/01 04:17:17) Jishin: I'm not sure that the GZ ever made its own missions. I'm pretty sure they were programmed by the D'ni.
(02/01 04:17:25) Valdez: or make the KIs a special kind of plugin
(02/01 04:17:27) MustardJeep: I know that one idea I had a while back is embedding location info in user marker missions.
(02/01 04:17:41) Valdez: hmmm
(02/01 04:17:45) Vexis: Yeah, has anyone seen any signs of an intelligence in the Great Zero?
(02/01 04:17:46) Jishin nods at MJ. Yeah, that is a good start.
(02/01 04:17:55) splash1 nods his head
(02/01 04:18:02) Valdez: indeed
(02/01 04:18:18) MustardJeep: Well I was there earlier so it's debatable if there was intellegence there or not... :P
(02/01 04:18:19) splash1: those cyrstals that send the beam farther
(02/01 04:18:31) Valdez: is that what they do?
(02/01 04:18:31) Jishin: The other thing we can do is try to craft good user missions, and then see if they can be added to the Lattice, to provide further calibration.
(02/01 04:18:41) Valdez: good idea
(02/01 04:18:47) splash1: very
(02/01 04:19:00) Valdez: and then replace the broken beacons
(02/01 04:19:12) Jishin: Again, that will require contact with the DRC -- I don't think any of us have the technical expertise to do that yet.
(02/01 04:19:17) Valdez: yes
(02/01 04:19:29) Valdez: when/if they find more funding
(02/01 04:19:35) Valdez: again
(02/01 04:19:35) Jishin: (OOC: what this means is that it's mostly IC roleplay and mission-making and running for us now, with hopefully some help from then later.)
(02/01 04:19:56) Valdez: hmmmm
(02/01 04:20:00) Jishin: ^them
(02/01 04:20:24) Valdez: i like to have IC roleplay most of teh time
(02/01 04:20:38) Jishin nods at Valdez.
(02/01 04:20:38) Valdez: makes it user friendlt
(02/01 04:20:47) Jishin: Shorah Phil!
(02/01 04:20:57) Valdez: *friendly
(02/01 04:21:03) Phil Mandrake: shorah
(02/01 04:21:11) Phil Mandrake waves hello
(02/01 04:21:15) Jishin: So the thought at the last meeting was to perhaps craft missions in Eder Delin and Eder Tsogal.
(02/01 04:21:19) Vexis: I'm certainly willing to help with the attempt.
(02/01 04:21:24) Valdez: me too
(02/01 04:21:28) Jishin: Delin has a functional beacon and Tsogal would be the 'control'.
(02/01 04:21:36) Valdez: it would be a good start
(02/01 04:21:39) splash1: yes
(02/01 04:21:43) Valdez: they are small and simple too
(02/01 04:21:45) splash1: but how would we do it?
(02/01 04:21:50) Jishin: And that makes it very easy for lots of people to access a particular age adn work on it all at once and so forth.
(02/01 04:21:58) Valdez: indeed
(02/01 04:22:07) Jishin: splash -- we start by creating high-quality marker missions that express the features of the Age.
(02/01 04:22:15) splash1: ah
(02/01 04:22:21) splash1: but wouldn't that be a spoiler?
(02/01 04:22:24) MustardJeep: Doing missions in Delin would be good, most of that age is also a mirror image of Kemo
(02/01 04:22:25) Jishin: For example, we need to address the height, length, and width of the Age.
(02/01 04:22:25) Valdez: no
(02/01 04:22:51) Valdez: I was talking to splash
(02/01 04:22:57) MustardJeep: so we could reuse some of the effort
(02/01 04:23:05) Jishin: Tai'lahr suggested earlier that we also focus on small areas; I think that would work well in areas with a lot of terrain variability.
(02/01 04:23:12) Jishin nodsnods at MJ. That's a good idea!
(02/01 04:23:22) Valdez nods his head
(02/01 04:23:28) splash1 nods his head
(02/01 04:23:54) Jishin: Someone else suggested ... I can't remember who ... that we select a line to be a 'zero' line and place markers along that line.
(02/01 04:24:08) Valdez: ???
(02/01 04:24:30) Valdez: how does that work?
(02/01 04:24:49) Jishin: OK. Have you played round with the Great Zero coordinates much in Ae'gura?
(02/01 04:25:00) MustardJeep: brb
(02/01 04:25:02) splash1: no
(02/01 04:25:05) splash1: no.....
(02/01 04:25:10) Valdez: I cheat at thoses
(02/01 04:25:13) Vexis: I have.
(02/01 04:25:18) Valdez droops his head in shame
(02/01 04:25:28) Jishin: If you follow the Great Stairs, you'll discover that there's a line that runs straight to Kerath's Arch that is all 0 on one coordinate.
(02/01 04:25:38) splash1 smacks you upside the head
(02/01 04:25:39) Jishin: That is the starting point of the coordinates.
(02/01 04:25:44) splash1: terrible Val...terrible
(02/01 04:25:55) Valdez: owie
(02/01 04:26:02) Valdez: oh I see
(02/01 04:26:05) Valdez: hmmm
(02/01 04:26:10) Vexis: Yes, I believe I've read that the D'ni purposely located many structures on that line.
(02/01 04:26:19) Jishin: The idea behind generating a zero line in another Age would be to give the Age a position for its starting coordinates.
(02/01 04:26:21) Jishin nodsnods.
(02/01 04:26:29) Valdez: good idea
(02/01 04:26:36) Vexis: Perhaps some of the Ages might be similar?
(02/01 04:26:44) Jishin: Yes. In the Ages when they did that, they'd either line it up with magnetic north or prominent features.
(02/01 04:27:03) Valdez: most of them proably North
(02/01 04:27:29) Jishin: Probably. We'll probably need some help from the Guild of Cartographers to determine which way is north in many of the Ages.
(02/01 04:27:36) Valdez: yes
(02/01 04:28:04) Valdez: we would be working closely on teh GoC on this one
(02/01 04:28:19) Valdez: with, not on
(02/01 04:28:25) Jishin: So that's kind of the big overall plan right now. We'd eventaully also like to get into working on the Nexus, as it lso has GZ coordinates in its main panel.
(02/01 04:28:50) Valdez: i saw that
(02/01 04:28:56) Valdez: that would be nice
(02/01 04:29:13) Jishin: That the Nexus isn't receiving GZ coordinates is mildly worrisome. The Zero is calibrated for Ae'gura, so presumably there's a breakdown in transmission somewhere.
(02/01 04:29:14) Valdez: after we get this done though
(02/01 04:29:25) Valdez: urd
(02/01 04:29:27) Valdez: yes
(02/01 04:29:50) Valdez: fingers wern't on home row
(02/01 04:29:57) Jishin nodsnods.
(02/01 04:30:02) Vexis: Perhaps our KIs are not properly transmitting coordnates to the Nexus?
(02/01 04:30:09) Valdez: and I am typing in the dark
(02/01 04:30:18) Valdez: posibly
(02/01 04:30:26) Jishin: Perhaps not. The KI is certainly a ... er .... puzzle. Yeah. That's teh word I want. Puzzle.
(02/01 04:30:38) Jishin surreptitiously makes a face at the KI. (;
(02/01 04:30:39) Valdez: because it is our KI that gives teh Nexus the info
(02/01 04:30:49) Vexis laughs
(02/01 04:30:55) Valdez: hehe
(02/01 04:31:22) Jishin: We talked a bit about where to communicate about the project outside of the Cavern. The consensus was that most people don't want to join *another* forum.
(02/01 04:31:30) Captain_Ron: i had to get my self saitek glowing keyboard
(02/01 04:31:39) Jishin: So we are currently keeping the info in the MOUL forum. It's in the Guilds subforum.
(02/01 04:31:48) Valdez: I want one of those!
(02/01 04:31:55) Vexis: Good place for it.
(02/01 04:32:39) Jishin: So that's where we are now, as of this morning. (: Now, let me ask you folks: any ideas, comments, thoughts?
(02/01 04:32:57) Valdez: this morning?
(02/01 04:32:57) splash1: someone sent me something
(02/01 04:33:06) Jishin: Well, this afternoon. (: It was a little earlier for me. (:
(02/01 04:33:11) Valdez: ah
(02/01 04:33:26) Valdez: its 9:30 PM at my place
(02/01 04:33:49) Valdez: where do you live?
(02/01 04:33:53) Captain_Ron: did i miss anything new
(02/01 04:34:06) Jishin: It's actually 8:30 here. Somehow my brain has elided this afternoon into this morning. Probably because I was prepping for this in the morning. (:
(02/01 04:34:21) Valdez: ah
(02/01 04:34:25) Jishin: Nope, not really. (: We're at the point of "questions, comments, more ideas?"
(02/01 04:35:09) Captain_Ron: i think its going to be a good start
(02/01 04:35:15) Valdez: well that's it for m
(02/01 04:35:18) Valdez: e
(02/01 04:35:24) Valdez: thanks Jishin
(02/01 04:35:27) Jishin nodsnods. No prob.
(02/01 04:35:39) Valdez: well i better get going
(02/01 04:35:41) Vexis: Has anyone considered the role the Nexus pedestals might play?
(02/01 04:35:46) Valdez: bye everone
(02/01 04:35:52) Jishin: Bye, Valdez!
(02/01 04:35:53) Valdez: no
(02/01 04:35:55) Captain_Ron: bye
(02/01 04:35:55) Valdez: bye
(02/01 04:36:06) Vexis: More Ages seem to have them than Maintainer marks.
(02/01 04:36:21) Jishin: Yes, Dot brought that up. She suggested that we might run missions connecting the pedestals, at least for trying to get info to the Nexus.
(02/01 04:36:34) Jishin: It sounds like something worth trying.
(02/01 04:37:12) Vexis: No other questions from me. Sounds like an interesting and worthy project.
(02/01 04:37:27) Jishin nodsnods. (: Coolness.
(02/01 04:37:43) Jishin: So ... sounds like we are mostly done here? Do you folks maybe want to take a wander over to Delin?
(02/01 04:37:53) MustardJeep: sure
(02/01 04:38:06) Jishin: Beginners' Bevin has one, so that's easy.
(02/01 04:38:16) splash1: umm so does UO
(02/01 04:38:23) splash1: and GoG
(02/01 04:38:30) Jishin: Doesn't really matter as long as we all end up together. (:
(02/01 04:38:32) splash1: and GameBoomers Bevin
(02/01 04:38:35) splash1: ah
(02/01 04:38:41) Ryan Carsten waves hello
(02/01 04:38:45) MustardJeep: pick one
(02/01 04:38:47) Jareth waves hello
(02/01 04:38:51) Jishin: Shorah Ryan!
(02/01 04:39:01) Ryan Carsten: Shorah all!
(02/01 04:39:03) Jishin: Yeah, just pick one. (: Doesn't matter to me ... I'm flexible.
(02/01 04:39:12) Jareth: shorah all :)
(02/01 04:39:15) Ryan Carsten: we're just passith through.
(02/01 04:39:17) Captain_Ron: Beginner's
(02/01 04:39:20) Jishin: Were you here for the meeting, Ryan and Jareth?
(02/01 04:39:21) MustardJeep does a dance
(02/01 04:39:23) Phil Mandrake: shorah
(02/01 04:39:34) Ryan Carsten: we just got here. was there a meeting?
(02/01 04:39:48) Jishin: A little one about trying to upgrade the Great Zero.
(02/01 04:39:54) Ryan Carsten: ah
(02/01 04:39:54) Jareth: i came for last minute sparklie harvesting
(02/01 04:39:54) splash1 puts the Nexus book in his jacket
(02/01 04:39:55) Phil Mandrake waves hello
(02/01 04:40:20) Ryan Carsten: well, take me to your leader! i mean your relto.
(02/01 04:40:24) Jareth: my 10 minutes a month trip to the cavern . . :)
(02/01 04:40:35) Jishin: We're about to all head off to Eder Delin to see about crafting some custom marker missions.
(02/01 04:40:54) Ryan Carsten: mmmm. delin.
(02/01 04:41:20) Jishin waves goodbye
(02/01 04:42:53) LIRA: allergies
(02/01 04:42:53) Tai'lahr: Shorah MustardJeep!
(02/01 04:42:56) REBEL Rusty0918: Hey, the cone fell over by itself!
(02/01 04:43:04) Mouse: hi Mustard
(02/01 04:43:06) Tai'lahr: Ghosts. Ooooooo
(02/01 04:43:13) Tai'lahr: Shorah Jishin!
(02/01 04:43:16) Jishin: Shorah!
(02/01 04:43:19) LIRA: That's cause SPOOKY was here
(02/01 04:43:21) Tai'lahr: On the Delin run?
(02/01 04:43:23) splash1: shorah
(02/01 04:43:30) Tai'lahr: Shorah splashy!
(02/01 04:43:40) Jishin: We're gonna go poke at it and talk about marker missions. Maybe make some, I don't know. (:
(02/01 04:43:42) LIRA waves hello
(02/01 04:43:42) splash1: hi Tai!
(02/01 04:43:45) Tai'lahr: Shorah moros!
(02/01 04:43:54) Tai'lahr: Oh, cool.
(02/01 04:44:03) Jishin: Yeah. Wanna come?
(02/01 04:44:04) splash1 (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(02/01 04:44:09) moros: hello
(02/01 04:44:24) Tai'lahr: Ah, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be here.
(02/01 04:44:33) Tai'lahr: But, thanks for the invite.
(02/01 04:44:36) Jishin: Ah, oh well. We'll post stuff, so check the MOUL forum. (:
(02/01 04:44:41) Jishin waves goodbye
(02/01 04:44:43) Tai'lahr: I will!
(02/01 04:45:33) Jishin: Nippy here. I should have brought a coat.
(02/01 04:45:37) splash1 points
(02/01 04:45:37) splash1: marker!
(02/01 04:45:50) splash1: hey it glowed
(02/01 04:45:52) Jishin: Yep. (:
(02/01 04:45:52) splash1: look
(02/01 04:46:28) Jishin: I wish I had some tools to take some of the spares apart and see how they work.
(02/01 04:46:50) splash1: now gather round the campfire and sing our campfire song
(02/01 04:46:54) MustardJeep: you know I still think that our feet should make marks in the snow
(02/01 04:47:03) Jishin: I agree. Must be some very solid snow.
(02/01 04:47:17) splash1: our C-A-M-P-F-I-R-E-S-O-N-G song
(02/01 04:47:25) MustardJeep: terra firma alright
(02/01 04:47:28) Jishin: So Ron and I were actually poking in here earlier today, trying to figure out high and low points.
(02/01 04:47:41) Jishin: I think the lowest point here is in the gully down below.
(02/01 04:47:54) Jishin: The highest we can reach, I think, is in the stone seating area.
(02/01 04:48:04) Jishin points
(02/01 04:48:09) Jishin: Up there.
(02/01 04:48:18) splash1: ah
(02/01 04:48:48) Jishin: I've done a lot of jumping around in Delin before, trying to see if there's enough stuff to make an extreme marker mission, and I couldn't get much higher than that.
(02/01 04:49:10) splash1: i knew a area where you can get high
(02/01 04:49:24) Jishin: Yeah, but Teledahn doesn't count. (;
(02/01 04:49:27) Jishin ducks.
(02/01 04:49:30) splash1: no
(02/01 04:49:35) splash1: in Delin
(02/01 04:49:51) Jishin: Legitimately, or by using false floors?
(02/01 04:49:55) splash1: there are small mushrooms under the snow
(02/01 04:50:01) Jishin laughs.
(02/01 04:50:04) splash1: you gotta dig for them
(02/01 04:50:05) splash1: jk
(02/01 04:50:14) splash1: let me show you
(02/01 04:50:46) splash1: here
(02/01 04:51:23) splash1: the area up there is solid
(02/01 04:51:42) splash1: used to be able to get up
(02/01 04:51:51) Jishin: Mm. Even if so, it's still not as high up as the ramp in the seating area.
(02/01 04:52:03) splash1: true but it's high
(02/01 04:52:04) Jishin: I've actually never been able to get up on that ledge. I've tried. /:
(02/01 04:52:21) splash1: it was wwaaaayy back when the snow in Delin was out
(02/01 04:52:28) splash1: back in Febuary
(02/01 04:52:30) splash1: 2007
(02/01 04:52:35) Jishin nodsnods.
(02/01 04:52:51) Jishin: I'm not sure it's accessible any longer, sadly.
(02/01 04:52:58) splash1: noep
(02/01 04:53:05) MustardJeep: glad they finally fixed that
(02/01 04:53:13) splash1: glad?
(02/01 04:53:20) Jishin: MJ, are you sure this is a dupe of Kemo? It seems like only half of Kemo.
(02/01 04:53:29) splash1: it is only half
(02/01 04:53:36) splash1: it's the back area
(02/01 04:53:37) Jishin: The back half.
(02/01 04:53:39) Jishin: Yeah.
(02/01 04:53:47) splash1: you can tell
(02/01 04:53:53) Captain_Ron: do we know what the spining thing is
(02/01 04:53:54) MustardJeep: glad yes I for stuck it was a hazzard
(02/01 04:54:03) MustardJeep: and yes this is a mirror od kemo
(02/01 04:54:14) splash1: it's a nicer version
(02/01 04:54:19) Jishin: Hmm. Would that make Tsogal a mirror of the front of Kemo?
(02/01 04:54:21) MustardJeep: well actually it is the area where you cet the fireflys
(02/01 04:54:27) splash1: yes
(02/01 04:54:30) splash1: the front half
(02/01 04:54:35) MustardJeep: and the area adound the door in kemo i belive
(02/01 04:54:40) splash1 nods his head
(02/01 04:54:44) Jishin nodsnods.
(02/01 04:54:56) splash1: the linking area is just like the area with the fountain
(02/01 04:55:00) splash1: in Kemo
(02/01 04:55:03) Jishin: Kemo's beacon is also functional, so working with these two Ages may help us a lot with Kemo.
(02/01 04:55:56) Jishin looks thoughtful.
(02/01 04:56:20) Jishin: I think it might be a good idea to get together on the forums and sort of discuss what we want to accomplish with the various missions and see who wants to put what together.
(02/01 04:57:08) Jishin: It took 14 missions to calibrate for Ae'gura ... this is smaller, and not as complex, so we may not need as many. Not sure.
(02/01 04:57:59) Captain_Ron: that would be nice
(02/01 04:58:03) Jishin: It might be useful to see if the GoCartographers have maps we could plot the missions out on, as well as just constructing them free-form here.
(02/01 04:59:10) Jishin: That way we can assemble them a little more deliberately, and make sure we're actually hitting the correct extremes of the Age.
(02/01 04:59:38) Jishin: Yes? No?
(02/01 04:59:43) Captain_Ron: agreed
(02/01 04:59:50) splash1: agrree
(02/01 05:00:00) MustardJeep: yes
(02/01 05:00:10) Vexis: Yes. I know they have maps of Eder Gira, but I'm not sure of the other Eders.
(02/01 05:00:24) Jishin: I thought I saw one of Tsogal, but it's been a while, so I may be wrong.
(02/01 05:00:31) MustardJeep: they do but some are more "artistic" looking then others
(02/01 05:00:49) Jishin: If they don't, perhaps they can help us out and either make one or help us make one. (:
(02/01 05:01:52) MustardJeep: got to run no rest for the wicked
(02/01 05:01:53) Jishin: Anyway ... I'm kinda out of steam right now, to be honest. (: I'd like some time to think and research and talk stuff over with everyone.
(02/01 05:02:17) Captain_Ron: same
(02/01 05:02:33) Jishin: We'll also need to figure out who'll actually be managing the missions and passing them out and stuff.
(02/01 05:03:07) Jishin: I mean, of course everyone who has it can pass it out -- but they gotta come from somewhere, and preferably be stored somewhere so they don't get lost.
(02/01 05:03:16) Captain_Ron: should we hit that in the MOUL forum
(02/01 05:03:19) Jishin: I think so.
(02/01 05:03:23) Jishin nodsnods.
(02/01 05:03:29) Vexis: ALright, I'll check the forums. Thanks for the presentation. Very interesting.
(02/01 05:03:37) Jishin: Thanks for coming! I appreciate it!
(02/01 05:03:50) Vexis waves goodbye
(02/01 05:03:57) Jishin: Later!
(02/01 05:03:57) Vexis (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(02/01 05:04:07) Jishin: I'm gonna head out too. Take care, folks. (:
(02/01 05:04:10) Jishin waves hello
(02/01 05:04:15) Jishin waves goodbye
(02/01 05:04:27) Jishin waves like a Beatles song. q: (:
(02/01 05:04:32) Jishin: See ya. (:
(02/01 05:04:37) ...Chat.log stopped.[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:52 am
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Here's the edited version of the chatlog of the first meeting, held on Thursday 31st January 2008 at 2 pm KI time in the Kirel auditorium.
[spoiler=Summary of the history and general scope of the Great Zero]Jishin: This is not really a "Maintainers" meeting, despite the pink shirts. I hope to make this an effort that folks throughout the cavern will find interesting. OK, let's get started!

Welcome to the first meeting regarding the maintenance and possible upgrading of the Great Zero. How familiar are you folks with the history and general scope of the Great Zero? I don't want to bore you, but I'm glad to provide information.

Nalates: I guess tell us...
Tai'lahr: I think I'm pretty familiar with it, and understand its purpose.
tachzusamm: history none, general scope: only a bit
Aurelias: I only know what I've read in the Kings' journals

Jishin: OK. To be succinct, then, the Great Zero is one of the oldest pieces of D'ni technology still in the Cavern. It was created under Ri'neref. Its initial purpose was to assist the Guild of Surveyors in mapping new Ages. All Ages in past times had their own link to the Great Zero, and could be mapped using the D'ni technology. Interestingly, the coordinate system it uses is now linked into the KI. The KI is a newer piece of technology developed by the Maintainers, and so the GZ must have been altered to support it in the past.

The Great Zero's actual mechanisms are something of a mystery, though the blue neutrino beam that flashes through Ae'gura is supposed to be how it detects location. When we as explorers returned to the Cavern, it was not working, but by running the pre-recorded marker missions, it seems to have started working again. Victor Laxman of the DRC does not know exactly why it started working again; it may have something to do with the marker missions, it may not.

So now here we are, and there are a few questions I'd like to pose as a jumping off point.
1) Are the marker missions what keeps the machine calibrated?
2) If so, are we doing enough to keep it at a correct calibration?
3) What can we do to expand the area the Great Zero can 'see'?

That's pretty much where our discussion in the Guild of Maintainers forum has gone, and we have some ideas. We'd also like to see if you folks have ideas. [/spoiler]
[spoiler=Discussion with Nalates about the work the Cartographers have done with the GZ coordinates]Jishin: If there is anyone here from the Guild of Cartographers, I'd love to have them say a few words. Anyone?

Nalates: That would be me...
Jishin: Come on up. (:
Nalates: Well, I'm not sure what we can do to spread the coords to new areas. Originally in the first Live we had lots of problems. The coords were wrong. We had different ideas about which way was North, Up or Down the stairs. Was the KI like a GPS or compass that points north or something else. In the end the corrds were fixed and the GoC made a coordinate grid map. Well, not so much a grid. It was based on the polar system. Those coords were available in several areas. Now it seems the area where coords work is much smaller. The info we learned is on the CoG's Tech Data site.
Jishin: Could we get that website address, please?
Nalates: THe easy way to find it is Google Uru Maps.
Jishin: Thanks. (:
Nalates: The URL is http://www.cates-associates.net/uru/ A sub site of where I work.
Jishin: I just poked at it; it requires a password?
Nalates: I don't know what else you find interesting... ?

Captain_Ron: could the maintainer stakes that are in the ground in the ages be part of this?

Jishin: One of the things I was wondering is if the GoC uses the D'ni mapping system for all of the Ages, or if they wanted to.
Nalates: We tried to... well that depends on what you mean by the D'ni Mapping System. If you mean coords... we tried. That made some interesting problems. Kirel is an oddball. We used to have coords in Bevin and Kirel. It has been too long since I used them in the first Live to remember how far they reached.
Jishin: Regardless, they don't reach here now, correct? Or do they? *checks her KI* It seems they do?
Tai'lahr: No, I don't believe you do.

Nalates: I have not tried marker missions to see if I get age coords in other ages. Anyone?
tachzusamm: I already tried that, Nalates
Jishin: Currently, no, no other Ages have actual coordinates.

Tai'lahr: I'm not quite sure I understand how the Great Zero can be used in other ages. How could it possibly reach them?
Jishin: Tai'lahr -- we know that it used to, but not exactly how. The Maintainer Stakes that Ron was referring to are believed to be the method of inter-Age coordinate communication.
Tai'lahr: Oh, okay. So, in each age, the Maintainer's Marker would be "ground zero" for that age?
Jishin: Yes, that's the theory.

Aurelias: The Maintainer Stake in Teledahn blinks. Does the GoM or GoC know the reason for this?
Jishin: The one in Eder Kemo blinks too, and no, we're not sure why either.
Tai'lahr: Perhaps Sharper worked on that one, and it's more or less operational than others?
tachzusamm: but the result was much distorted
Captain_Ron: like the GZ marker missions it will take multiple calibrations to lock it in

Jishin: So I think now we kind of get into the discussion and idea-generating part of the exercise, unless anyone has more questions for Nalates?
Nalates: If not I'll sit down...[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Brainstorming session on extending the GZ coordinate system]Jishin: So we've been discussing this a bit over at the GoMa forums, and we think that maybe if we do some work with what we've got available, perhaps we can improve the current condition of the Great Zero. The question is how. (And strictly OOC: No, none of us have access to Cyan's code or anything. This would be purely IC and experimental; don't expect immediate results.)
Captain_Ron: What would be the best way to?
Tai'lahr: Perhaps by creating marker missions similar to the ones used in the cavern?
Captain_Ron: thats were i was going
Tai'lahr: I don't know how they were created or how they work, but it seems that would be the method to follow.
Jishin: Yes, that's definitely a possibility. I think it would be a question of how to get the information back to the Zero. Perhaps it would be a good idea to start with an Age that has a functional beacon. Or at least a beacon that we *think* is functional.

Captain_Ron: and right now there are only two ages
Nalates: Two?
Jishin: Hmm. Well, Teledahn's and Eder Gira's both blink. I want to say that Eder Delin might work too.
Captain_Ron: right
Nalates: Does Gahreseen blink?
Captain_Ron: no
Nalates: IS it solid on or off?
Captain_Ron: more like pulsing
Jishin: The one outside doesn't blink. I'm not sure about the ones inside.
Captain_Ron: that doesn't either
Nalates: I think the one outside is the age's marker.
Jishin: We think that solid means it's off, as it doesn't produce light if it's solid and not pulsing. Nalates -- I agree, but I wonder about the one in the floor. Was it driven in by accident or on purpose?
Nalates: I don't remember one IN the floor. There is the one you can kick aruound. Is that what you mean?
Jishin: I don't think that one's kickable any more, but I could be mistaken. It's been a bit since I've been to that area of Gahreesen.
Captain_Ron: i think it's a clue for what we're working on
tachzusamm: I cannot follow. When talking about "beacon", do mean those Maintainer Markers?
Jishin: Yes, that's what we're discussing.
Captain_Ron: the ones in the ground
tachzusamm: ok, thank you

Gabby: The light in city used to turn red now it stays blue will it turn red again? Sorry i was out of turn
Jishin: No, that's fine. I don't think the light in the city is likely to turn red again, unless the GZ loses calibration.

Jishin: The other thing I wanted to bring to the table ... is a note about the Nexus. I'm sure you've noted the 000 000 00000 numbers in the Nexus panel near the various city locations. General conjecture is that those are also GZ coordinates, but for some reason the Nexus isn't receiving them. So perhaps we can also experiment to try to work out what is wrong there, and fix that.
Tai'lahr: That's actually kind of a scary thought.That we're at the mercy of faulty technology here. [Tai'lahr giggles]
Nalates: No. I think it is because the DRC wrapped the Nexus in tinfoil to protect it.

Jishin: Well, the Nexus is a different Age. Perhaps its beacon is out.
Nalates: Does the KI read coords in Nexus? I forget.
Jishin: I don't believe you get coordinates in the Nexus.
tachzusamm: Maybe the display digits in Nexus just need some oil...

Jishin: There were some suggestions that we could try setting up marker missions that are linked to the various Nexus pedestals, for example.
Tai'lahr: That sounds like a reasonable experiment to start with.
Gabby: Where would we have access to marker missions other than calabration ones?
Jishin: We'd have to create them, Gabby.
Gabby: Oh fun

Jishin: Dot! Welcome! We were just talking about your Nexus ideas.
:dot:: My apologies for the late arrival. Had lots of problems getting down here -- took an hour in all
Jishin: At least you made it. That's the important part. We're discussing the possibility of creating some marker missions now. I think there are two things we want to look at, right? Getting coordinates in Ages outside of the Cavern, and getting coordinates to the Nexus.
:dot:: Yes: that's right

Captain_Ron: should there be a certain title to diff from calibration and explorer games
Jishin: There should be, but right now, all we have are explorer games. Perhaps we can figure out how to upload stuff to the calibration machine specifically later. I believe we could talk with Laxman about that.
:dot:: It might be that we can develop, test and refine particular explorer games and then get them into calibration mode
Jishin: Yeah, that would be a good start! (:

Jishin: So right now, let me put it to you folks: what Age would you like to work on?
Tai'lahr: Which one is the best suited for this?
Aurelias: If Delin is one of the ages you suspect has a semi-functional Maintainer Marker, I would choose that one. It's small, for one. And it's easy to get people into the same instance.
Tai'lahr: And, it's small. Smile
Jishin: My thoughts would be that the Eders would be the right choice, for several reasons. Small is one of them. And since Tsogal has a solid marker, we could set up missions for it as a 'control'. So in case we're wrong about which one is on ...
Tai'lahr nods her head

Jishin: I think at this point, we'd want to work out specifics in more detail. What goes into a good calibration mission? That might be too much for this particular discussion, so maybe it would be better to move that to a forum.
Tai'lahr: Variety of locations?
Aurelias: I would think some mission should cover a broad area, while others should be concentrated. Perhaps the concentrated ones would offer greater precision to the calibration?
Jishin: Variety, yes. Height, width, and length of the Age, I'd think? And definitely take advantage of prominent geographical features.
:dot:: Perhaps developing a grid-like network? Would it be worth setting up one to denote a zero line? then others based on that zero line to finetune the grid?
Jishin: A grid is a good idea too. We could set up lots of different missions. Oo, that's a good idea, [the zero line]. Isn't there one like that in Ae'gura?
dot:: Frisky Badger mentioned one on the forum.
Jishin: Out of curiosity, has anyone superimposed the Ae'gura markers on the Ae'gura map?

Tai'lahr: Um, I know this might be getting away from the "science" of this project, but what about a mission that hits all of the Yeesha cloths there? I mean, you never know, maybe those spots were chosen for a reason.
Jishin: Can't hurt. (: Why not? That is a really good point, Tai'lahr.
:dot:: That would be a good mapping exercise too
Aurelias: Excellent point, Tai'lahr.

Captain_Ron: should we set up one mission for the 2 ages age or multiple?
Jishin: I think it would be better to do separate missions for each Age, that way we don't feed Rezeero too much information. Though doing one that spanned them both might provide "this is Delin, this is Tsogal" information ... i don't know. Thoughts?
:dot:: For starters, might be best to keep them separate. We don't exactly know the mechanisms that apply, so keep the variables to a minimum
Jishin: Makes sense.

Captain_Ron: i guess what i'm getting at is for control reasons that multiple explorers work on the same group of missions
Tai'lahr: That's a good idea.
Jishin: Ron -- yep, good idea.
Captain_Ron: there still can be five missions in an age, just that we all work on the same five

Tai'lahr: Has anyone ever overlaid the cloth locations from both to see if there's anything significant to them?
Jishin: I don't know. It would be worth checking out.

Jishin: I think we've gotten a good start on this. We still need to poke at the idea of the Nexus missions a bit. Also, I would like to discuss what the best way to communicate this information is.
Tai'lahr: When the missions are ready, I'll help promote them to get Explorers to use them.
Nalates: One of the things I do is post in the Pubs.
Tai'lahr: Who are you communicating it to? The Explorers in general?
Jishin: I'm thinking that we can post the missions in the Explorer Exchange, but if we'd like to have dialogue and planning outside the Cavern, where's best for everyone?
Captain_Ron: how does every one feel if the maintainers set up the missions and then send them out
Jishin: I think anyone ought to be able to creat ethe missions. (: The more the better.
Captain_Ron: right
:dot:: Yes, lots of different skills in the community -- let's tap into them[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Where to hold discussions outside the Cavern]Nalates: There are some 'global' calendars out there. I don't know that anyone of them has taken over.
Tai'lahr: Well, have the dialogue on the Maintainer forum, but post to all the others to direct people to go there.
:dot:: It might be worth developing a webpage on the Maintainer site -- perhaps in blog style
Jishin: I don't think it's purely a Maintainer thing, and there are a lot of forums already ... a blog idea might not be too bad. I know a lot of folks don't want to go all over the place for their information.
Nalates: Jishin, you are right. I check about 4 forums now. Be sure to post in GT forums. It pulls the new people to our groups.
Jishin nods at Nalates. Very important.
Tai'lahr: Oh, I thought the Maintainers had a site and forums already.
:dot:: Yes, we do
Jishin: We do -- I just don't think people want to join *more* forums. (: Am I right? (:
Nalates: I suspect so.
Captain_Ron: when you're right you're right
Nalates: I am slow to join new forums.
Jishin: So perhaps we can host the discussion someplace where there are lots of people already? Like MOUL or UO or drcsite? Or GT, I haven't been on that forum yet.
Tai'lahr: In the Guild Section of the MOUL and on the DRC site.
:dot:: MOUL would be good, on the guilds section maybe
Nalates: I am present on UO most often and MOUL next.
Aurelias: My vote would be for MOUL.
Tai'lahr nods her head
Jishin: I'm most frequently on MOUL and GoMa.
:dot:: Same here, Jishin
Captain_Ron: GT not really set up for easy uru foruming. i like MOUL
Jishin: MOUL, then?
Francesca: ok
Tai'lahr: GT would be good for just promoting the idea and then directing them to the discussion.
Captain_Ron: true
Jishin: OK. I'll put the chatlog and stuff in the Guilds section for now, and we can see if the mods need it moved. (:
:dot:: I've noticed that the guilds section tends to be a bit quiet at the moment on MOUL so activity would be a good thing
Tai'lahr nods her head
Nalates: Having a central place is handy for everyone. Sounds like MOUL
Jishin: Posting to GT and pointing them at it should work, I think. Cool. Good stuff. (:

Jishin: So I think all we have left to discuss is distribution of marker games as people create them, and waht to do about possibly doing Nexus games.
Nalates: Posting the new marker games at MOUL in a thread is good. Perhaps someone will voulteer to up the initial post with new missions.
Jishin: We could also use the Explorer Exchange, though that does add another site to deal with.
:dot:: But that might catch other explorers who specialise in marker missions
Jishin: Yep, and the more warm bodies, the better. I mean, look how many we needed to get Ae'gura calibrated.
Nalates: In marketing we hit all the places people hang. We don't make people come looking for us. Posting on MOUL is good. But someone has to tell the UO peole, the GT people, the GoW... etc. I have had to post on many forums and in my Hood and the Pub.
Jishin nods at Nalates. Makes sense. Getting the word out is going to be important.
:dot:: Is there anyone from GoMe who could help with that?
Jishin: We could mosey over to their forums and ask them for their help.
Tai'lahr: I can post to GT and to GoG. Once you get the initial post up on MOUL, it will be easy to post elsewhere and just refer to it.
Jishin: Yep. We'll get that started post-meetings today. (:
Nalates: I am not much of an organizer. Lots of independents in the GoC. I go into a forum and search for the event. If it is not there I post it.
Jishin: I'm glad you came, Nalates. (: Thanks much.
Captain_Ron: yes thank you
Nalates: Thanks.
Tai'lahr: Yes, this was a very productive meeting, I believe. Good work.
Jishin: Yeah, good job, folks. (: This is feeling like a good time to wrap up. I know we haven't gotten the Nexus stuff all banged out, but do we want to do that on the forum?
Francesca: thank you Jishin for organizing this
:dot:: Yes, thank you Jishin. We need to save some projects for later too!
Jishin: No problem. I had good help. (Thanks, Ron and Dot. You rock.)
Nalates: Yes, thanks Jishin!!!
[Aurelias, Nalates, Tai'lahr, :dot:, Francesca, tachzusamm, Captain_Ron, Susi clap/cheer]

Jishin: I am so excited. Let's do this! [/spoiler]


Last edited by Dot on Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Here's the edited version of the chatlog of the second meeting, held on Thursday 31st January 2008 at 9 pm KI time in the Kirel auditorium.
[spoiler=The Great Zero and maintainer marks in other Ages]Jishin: Hiya folks! Are you here for the Great Zero meeting? We'll be starting in just a few minutes.
Valdez: just in time
Jishin: Shorah Valdez! Yep! (:
Valdez: hello... er... Shorah Guild Master
Jishin: [laughs] Titles are totally not necessary. (But thanks. (; I feel flattered. (: )
Valdez: this is about the GZ right?
Jishin: Yep, sure is.
Valdez: what exacly about the GZ?
Jishin: Well, a few things about the GZ. For starters, we don't really know much about how it got calibrated in the first place, so we're not sure if the calibration is being sufficiently maintained. Second, we know that the Zero used to have more functionality than it does now.
Valdez: Laxman did it for one thing
Jishin: Laxman himself said that he's not sure exactly why it started working.
splash1: it's because he's evil. he used his evil energy to start it
Valdez: the Yahvo did it
Jishin: Anyway -- the Zero used to be functional not only in Ae'gura, but also throughout the other Ages. Currently, that's not working, and that's the main thing that we would like to focus on.
splash1: a mini GZ in each age??
MustardJeep: well that is the basic idea of the Maintainer Marks
Jishin: The general consensus that we've heard before is that those nifty Maintainer marks actually transmit or receive GZ information. So the next question is: why aren't they working? (:
Valdez: oh those things. they havn't been maintained in so long!
splash1: or have a GZbeam admit from the KI
Jishin: Yeah, most of them are broken and dark. However, there are a few that are still working, we think.
Valdez: we need to make new ones and yank the old out
Jishin: The markers in Teledahn, Eder Kemo, and Eder Delin all are blinking and glowing.
Valdez: I was just going to say that
splash1: there is one in Tsogal
Jishin: Yes, but it doesn't seem to be functional.
splash1: but it is broken due to water
Valdez: they look waterproof
Vexis: Gahreesen has one as well.
splash1: there are many in Gahreesen mostly because that is where they come from
Jishin: There is also one near the KI dispenser in Gahreesen that is glowing, but not blinking. The one on the outside in Gahreesen is not working.
Vexis: On a plateau outside.
Valdez: yes i noticed it
Vexis: I believe the one on the plateau is.
Jishin: Vexis -- it's not; I checked recently.
Vexis: OK
MustardJeep: The one in gahreesen is on the platue outside like valdez says
Jishin: There are two planted in the ground in Gahreesen. There is one near the KI dispenser, and one on the plateau.
MustardJeep: the ones in the ki room are spare parts probably
Valdez: of course they are
Jishin: There are several that are not planted in the ground, yes, and I'd assume those are spares, but there is actually one in the ground there.
Valdez: they arn't planted in the ground
Valdez: oh
MustardJeep: You used to be able to kick that one.......
Jishin: You can't any more.
splash1: yeah
Valdez: physics engine bug. dang you Ageia!
splash1: well you could but Cyan broke the kickable objects[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Getting maintainer marks to work again]Jishin: Anyway, at the previous meeting, we discussed possible ways of trying to get the Zero to recognize other Ages.
MustardJeep: do tell
Valdez: fix the markers!
splash1: or create small energy tubes that tranfer the beam into other ages
Jishin: Well, there are markers that appear to be working.
Valdez: but they aren't
Jishin: So the thought we had is that perhaps the other Ages also need calibration.
Valdez: they could but how?
Vexis: Interesting.
Jishin: We thought the best way to do that would be to craft a variety of marker missions for an Age with what we think is a functional beacon.
Valdez: and replace the broken ones. I like the idea
Jishin: We can use the current missions as a model, and try to really cover the scope of the Age. Now -- it's worth noting that perhaps the Zero doesn't really 'read' user-generated missions that way. I think we're going to need to do some more research and see if we can contact Laxman about how some of this stuff works.
Valdez: No, it's not the right type
splash1: ummm that won't work. Laxman is a Cyan character
Jishin: I know he's very busy, but he does at least send the pellet point information back.

Valdez: we need to make the GZ make the missions itself
Jishin: I'm not sure that the GZ ever made its own missions. I'm pretty sure they were programmed by the D'ni.
Valdez: or make the KIs a special kind of plugin
Vexis: Yeah, has anyone seen any signs of an intelligence in the Great Zero?
MustardJeep: Well I was there earlier so it's debatable if there was intellegence there or not...

MustardJeep:
I know that one idea I had a while back is embedding location info in user marker missions.
Jishin: [nods at MJ] Yeah, that is a good start.
splash1 nods his head
Valdez: indeed

splash1: those crystals that send the beam farther
Valdez: is that what they do?[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Using marker missions for calibration]Jishin: The other thing we can do is try to craft good user missions, and then see if they can be added to the Lattice, to provide further calibration.
Valdez: good idea... and then replace the broken beacons
Jishin: Again, that will require contact with the DRC -- I don't think any of us have the technical expertise to do that yet.
Valdez: yes. when/if they find more funding again
Jishin: (OOC: what this means is that it's mostly IC roleplay and mission-making and running for us now, with hopefully some help from them later.)
Valdez: hmmmm i like to have IC roleplay most of teh time. makes it user friendly
Jishin nods at Valdez.
Jishin: So the thought at the last meeting was to perhaps craft missions in Eder Delin and Eder Tsogal.
Vexis: I'm certainly willing to help with the attempt.
Valdez: me too
Jishin: Delin has a functional beacon and Tsogal would be the 'control'. And that makes it very easy for lots of people to access a particular age and work on it all at once and so forth.
Valdez: it would be a good start. they are small and simple too
splash1: yes but how would we do it?
Jishin: We start by creating high-quality marker missions that express the features of the Age. For example, we need to address the height, length, and width of the Age. Tai'lahr suggested earlier that we also focus on small areas; I think that would work well in areas with a lot of terrain variability.
MustardJeep: Doing missions in Delin would be good, most of that age is also a mirror image of Kemo so we could reuse some of the effort
Jishin: [nods at MJ] That's a good idea![/spoiler]
[spoiler=Defining a zero line]Jishin: Someone else suggested ... I can't remember who ... that we select a line to be a 'zero' line and place markers along that line.
Valdez: how does that work?
Jishin: OK. Have you played round with the Great Zero coordinates much in Ae'gura?
splash1: no.....
Valdez: I cheat at those [droops his head in shame]
Vexis: I have.
Jishin: If you follow the Great Stairs, you'll discover that there's a line that runs straight to Kerath's Arch that is all 0 on one coordinate. That is the starting point of the coordinates.
Valdez: oh I see. hmmm
Vexis: Yes, I believe I've read that the D'ni purposely located many structures on that line.
Jishin: The idea behind generating a zero line in another Age would be to give the Age a position for its starting coordinates.
Valdez: good idea
Vexis: Perhaps some of the Ages might be similar?
Jishin: Yes. In the Ages when they did that, they'd either line it up with magnetic north or prominent features.
Valdez: most of them probably North
Jishin: Probably. We'll probably need some help from the Guild of Cartographers to determine which way is north in many of the Ages.
Valdez: yes. we would be working closely with the GoC on this one
Jishin: So that's kind of the big overall plan right now.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Coordinates in the Nexus; dissemination of information]Jishin: We'd eventaully also like to get into working on the Nexus, as it also has GZ coordinates in its main panel.
Valdez: i saw that. that would be nice
Jishin: That the Nexus isn't receiving GZ coordinates is mildly worrisome. The Zero is calibrated for Ae'gura, so presumably there's a breakdown in transmission somewhere.
Valdez: after we get this done though. yes
Vexis: Perhaps our KIs are not properly transmitting coordnates to the Nexus?
Valdez: possibly
Jishin: Perhaps not. The KI is certainly a ... er .... puzzle. Yeah. That's the word I want. Puzzle. [Jishin surreptitiously makes a face at the KI.]
Valdez: because it is our KI that gives the Nexus the info
Vexis: Has anyone considered the role the Nexus pedestals might play?
Valdez: no
Vexis: More Ages seem to have them than Maintainer marks.
Jishin: Yes, Dot brought that up. She suggested that we might run missions connecting the pedestals, at least for trying to get info to the Nexus. It sounds like something worth trying.

Jishin: We talked a bit about where to communicate about the project outside of the Cavern. The consensus was that most people don't want to join *another* forum. So we are currently keeping the info in the MOUL forum. It's in the Guilds subforum.
Vexis: Good place for it.
Jishin: So that's where we are now, as of this afternoon. (: Now, let me ask you folks: any ideas, comments, thoughts?
Vexis: No other questions from me. Sounds like an interesting and worthy project.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=A visit to Delin and further discussion]Jishin: So ... sounds like we are mostly done here? Do you folks maybe want to take a wander over to Delin?
MustardJeep: sure
Jishin: Beginners' Bevin has one, so that's easy.
splash1: umm so does UO and GoG and GameBoomers Bevin
Jishin: Doesn't really matter as long as we all end up together. (:
MustardJeep: pick one
Jishin: Yeah, just pick one. (: Doesn't matter to me ... I'm flexible.
Captain_Ron: Beginner's
[Various explorers come into Kirel]
Jishin: We're about to all head off to Eder Delin to see about crafting some custom marker missions.
Tai'lahr: On the Delin run?
Jishin: We're gonna go poke at it and talk about marker missions. Maybe make some, I don't know. Wanna come?
Tai'lahr: Ah, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be here. But, thanks for the invite.
Jishin: Ah, oh well. We'll post stuff, so check the MOUL forum. (:
Jishin waves goodbye
Tai'lahr: I will!

Jishin: Nippy here. I should have brought a coat.
splash1: [points] marker! hey it glowed
Jishin: Yep. (:
splash1: look
Jishin: I wish I had some tools to take some of the spares apart and see how they work.
MustardJeep: you know I still think that our feet should make marks in the snow
Jishin: I agree. Must be some very solid snow.
MustardJeep: terra firma alright

Jishin: So Ron and I were actually poking in here earlier today, trying to figure out high and low points. I think the lowest point here is in the gully down below. The highest we can reach, I think, is in the stone seating area. [points] Up there.
splash1: ah
Jishin: I've done a lot of jumping around in Delin before, trying to see if there's enough stuff to make an extreme marker mission, and I couldn't get much higher than that.
splash1: i knew a area where you can get high
Jishin: Yeah, but Teledahn doesn't count. [ducks]
splash1: no, in Delin
Jishin: Legitimately, or by using false floors?
splash1: there are small mushrooms under the snow. you gotta dig for them [jk] ... let me show you ... here ... the area up there is solid ... used to be able to get up
Jishin: Mm. Even if so, it's still not as high up as the ramp in the seating area.
splash1: true but it's high
Jishin: I've actually never been able to get up on that ledge. I've tried. /:
splash1: it was wwaaaayy back when the snow in Delin was out, back in Febuary 2007
Jishin: [nods] I'm not sure it's accessible any longer, sadly.
splash1: nope
MustardJeep: glad they finally fixed that
splash1: glad?
MustardJeep: glad yes I for stuck it was a hazzard

Jishin: MJ, are you sure this is a dupe of Kemo? It seems like only half of Kemo.
splash1: it is only half. it's the back area. you can tell
Jishin: The back half. Yeah.
Captain_Ron: do we know what the spinning thing is
MustardJeep: and yes this is a mirror of kemo
splash1: it's a nicer version
Jishin: Hmm. Would that make Tsogal a mirror of the front of Kemo?
MustardJeep: well actually it is the area where you get the fireflys
splash1: yes. the front half
MustardJeep: and the area around the door in kemo i believe
[splash1 and Jishin nod]
splash1: the linking area is just like the area with the fountain in Kemo
Jishin: Kemo's beacon is also functional, so working with these two Ages may help us a lot with Kemo.

Jishin: [looks thoughtful] I think it might be a good idea to get together on the forums and sort of discuss what we want to accomplish with the various missions and see who wants to put what together. It took 14 missions to calibrate for Ae'gura ... this is smaller, and not as complex, so we may not need as many. Not sure.
Captain_Ron: that would be nice
Jishin: It might be useful to see if the GoCartographers have maps we could plot the missions out on, as well as just constructing them free-form here. That way we can assemble them a little more deliberately, and make sure we're actually hitting the correct extremes of the Age. Yes? No?
[Captain_Ron, splash1, MustardJeep agree]
Vexis: Yes. I know they have maps of Eder Gira, but I'm not sure of the other Eders.
Jishin: I thought I saw one of Tsogal, but it's been a while, so I may be wrong.
MustardJeep: they do but some are more "artistic" looking then others
Jishin: If they don't, perhaps they can help us out and either make one or help us make one. (:
MustardJeep: got to run no rest for the wicked
Jishin: Anyway ... I'm kinda out of steam right now, to be honest. (: I'd like some time to think and research and talk stuff over with everyone.
Captain_Ron: same
Jishin: We'll also need to figure out who'll actually be managing the missions and passing them out and stuff. I mean, of course everyone who has it can pass it out -- but they gotta come from somewhere, and preferably be stored somewhere so they don't get lost.
Captain_Ron: should we hit that in the MOUL forum
Jishin: I think so.
Vexis: ALright, I'll check the forums. Thanks for the presentation. Very interesting.
Jishin: Thanks for coming! I appreciate it![/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:38 am 
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So I ran marker missions 9 and 11 and found something *very* interesting:

Marker Mission 9: Tokotah Courtyard
[spoiler]MM 9 -- Tokotah Courtyard
#1: 32656, 56, -80 (Ledge above Nexus book)
KI reading: 1477, 56, -80
#2: 31746, 52, -80 (between T.Alley and stalagmite)
KI reading: 576, 52, -80
#3: 62480, 52, -80 (between Great Stair and stalagmite)
KI reading: 62478, 52, -80
#4: 62417, 56, -81 (Great Stair, left as facing Kerath's Arch)
KI reading: unable to read, marker is in the air
#5: 51, 57, -82 (Great Stair, right as facing Kerath's arch)
KI reading: unable to read, marker is in the air
#6: 62485, 49, -80 (inside stalagmite)
KI reading: 62477, 49, -80
#7: 61990, 52, -80 (Tokotah courtyard, near steps to Gallery)
KI reading: 61988, 52, -80
#8: 61746, 57, -82 (on steps leading to Gallery)
KI reading: 61748, 57, -82
#9: 61889, 51, -80 (between stalagmite and plaza overlooking Gallery)
KI reading: 61888, 51, -80
#10: 61535, 53, -80 (plaza overlooking Gallery)
KI reading: unable to read, marker is in the air
#11: 62068, 47, -80 (near steps to Hall of Kings)
KI reading: 62069, 47, -80
#12: 161, 46, -80 (between stalagmite and Guild Hall entrance)
KI reading: 142, 46, -80
#13: 31354, 41, -80 (Guild Hall entrance)
KI reading: 178, 41, -80
#14: 31642, 48, -80 (between stalagmite and DRC tent)
KI reading: 485, 48, -80
#15: 33745, 44, -80 (in front of museum)
KI reading: 2576, 44, 80
#16: 60797, 45, -78 (stairs to Hall of Kings)
KI reading: 60785, 45, -78
[/spoiler]

The KI does not seem to be accurate for parts of this mission. I'm uncertain as to why. I want to lay this out on a map and see what the numbers really mean. Anyone got a good map of Ae'gura they don't mind me painting on?

Below is also the data for marker mission 11. I have not gone and gotten the KI data for it yet, but will soon.
MM 11 -- Zero Line
[spoiler]#1: 0, 1, -3 -- GZ
#2: 3, 75, -93 -- Ferry Terminal
#3: 3, 73, -92 -- First stairs
#4: 3, 70, -88 -- First landing
#5: 3, 64, -85 -- Second landing (on decorative area)
#6: 3, 63, -85 -- Second landing (on deck)
#7: 3, 53, -80 -- Tokotah Courtyard, in front of stalagmite
#8: 3, 49, -80 -- Tokotah Courtyard, inside stalagmite
#9: 3, 41, -80 -- Tokotah Courtyard, in front of Guild Hall entrance
[/spoiler]

I was thinking these would make good models for starting some calibration missions for Delin and Tsogal, but until we understand what's going on with the difference in the first set of coordinates, I think we're going to need more research. I must admit I'm not sure I quite grok the whole polar coordinate thing, so perhaps there is a simple explanation as to why the first set of coordinates are sometimes so different from each other.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:27 pm 
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Marker Mission 11, now with KI readings.
The only one that's really off is the one in the Great Zero itself. The others look like they depend on where you are standing, as they're very close to the 0-line.

MM 11 -- Zero Line
[spoiler]#1: 0, 1, -3 -- GZ near crystal
KI reading: 30869, 1, -3
#2: 3, 75, -93 -- Ferry Terminal
KI reading: 0, 75, -93
#3: 3, 73, -92 -- First stairs
KI reading: 62494, 75, -93
#4: 3, 70, -88 -- First landing
KI reading: 62494, 70, -88
#5: 3, 64, -85 -- Second landing (on decorative area)
KI reading: 3, 64, -86 (difference here is height of KI vs marker, I think)
#6: 3, 63, -85 -- Second landing (on deck)
KI reading: 5, 63, -85
#7: 3, 53, -80 -- Tokotah Courtyard, in front of stalagmite
KI reading: 10, 53, -80
#8: 3, 49, -80 -- Tokotah Courtyard, inside stalagmite
KI reading: 62499, 49, -80
#9: 3, 41, -80 -- Tokotah Courtyard, in front of Guild Hall entrance
KI reading: 62496, 41, -80[/spoiler]

It's interesting to note that marker 9 in this mission (MM 11-9) and marker 13 in Marker Mission 9 (MM 9-13) are very close to each other. They both seem to read correctly on the KI, but the first coordinate that the mission provides for MM 9-13 is just plain wrong.

I have been doing a little poking at the Great Zero line itself, that runs through Kerath's Arch and through the Great Stair and the stalagmite. It is difficult because of human error to determine for sure, but I *suspect* that it's possible that it might be just slightly off. I'm not entirely sure because it is so difficult to position yourself accurately and walk the zero line, and obviously it's kinda hard to link surveying equipment down to the Cavern.

I think it would be useful to keep all these readings for posterity, if nothing else. I'm not sure I've seen anyone actually take down the numbers. I will run some more of the missions so we can cover them all and see what is really off and what is right.

Further discussion is currently taking place in the Guild of Maintainers forum, since most of the interested folks seem to be more active over there. So if you are interested, please either post here or follow along over at the Guild of Maintainers. (: Thanks, folks!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:15 am 
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I would love to help do this just tell me what you need me to do thanks :)

KI#12379098

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:55 pm 
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Right now we're taking a slight side-track on the project since we've discovered that there are some interesting differences between the KI numbers and the GZ numbers. It'd be great if you could run through some of the GZ calibration missions and write down what the GZ says the coordinates are and what your KI says the coordinates are.

We need to put together a central data repository for this -- some of the information is here, some is over at the Guild of Maintainers forum. You can post here if you'd like, or over there -- I'll see about getting the info collated and put in one spot.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:16 am 
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Ok i will do this asp, i could run through say the first 10 or so then compare them to the GZ reading, and then do another 10 or so and just keep doing that for a bit and see what the numbers say. I can post it of the Guild of Maintainers forum for the data base. which i think would be more useful or here as well if you like

let me know what you think.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:55 am 
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Given that most of the folks interested in the project seem to be of the Maintainer bent, it's probably best to post it there for now. (: Thanks for helping out! Getting the data will be very useful!

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