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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:06 pm 
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THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD IS FOR URU COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO POST BRIEF SUMMARY DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT THEY KNOW OR FOUND IN THE GUILDS AND OTHER FORUM THREAD LINKS TO BUILD AN OFFICIAL PLACE TO GATHER TOGETHER URU COMMUNITY ISSUES, ANSWERS, RESOLUTIONS AND A RUNNING HISTORY TO THE STAGES AND PROCESS TO THE STAGES OF OPEN SOURCE. LETS HAVE A CENTRAL PLACE OF ALL BASIC INFORMATION THE URU COMMUNITY MEMBERS WANT TO KNOW. LETS ELIMINATE THE URU COMMUNITY DARKNESS OF WONDERING WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHERE CAN I FIND ANSWERS, WHERE DO THINGS STAND WITH THE PLANNING AND IMPLEMENTING OF OPEN SOURCE. LET ESTABLISH A CENTRALIZED KNOWLEDGE BASE THREAD FOR WHAT COMMUNITY MEMBERS WANT TO KNOW!

I wrote 2 pages to express the reasons and reasoning behind Posting this New Topic.
The short and simple version is this; I personally being an average Uru Community member would like a place to find answers to core issues facing the Uru Community. I have found endless threads all over the forums of various topics, great stuff of proposals to organize and centralize the Guilds and the Uru Community. Plans to streamline Community issues into a process for the Community to vote and decide matters. Threads that speculate and comment more than have any factual or actual remedies to resolve the topics. Maybe the Guilds could get organized together with the Uru Community and start being accountable to the Uru Community as to what their plans and intentions are: define the stages for MOOSE. What will be the Official name the Community will give to Open Source Myst Uru Online Live? Did the thread discussing it ever reach a vote stage? What will stage one give us? What is stage one called? Any word from Cyan on that yet? What is stage 2? How may stages are there? What will be in each stage? Will the Guild of Writes get stage 1 first? Will the Guild of Maintainers get it? When? Will it become available to other Myst sites? Who is deciding what the platform will be to run Open Source on? Who is setting it up? Who will post how to host open source? Why not have an Official place for all the Guilds and Communities issues and news to be discussed and voted on, wait! How about the Guild of Messengers host the Uru Community news thread as to what is happening and voting results. Or maybe just a Sticky Official thread to establish a process for the Uru Community Members to refine matters and issues to a vote for the Guilds to at least see what the Core Community wants.

My thoughts elaborated on in ramblin fashion:
At the risk of looking stupid in text, again, I will put forth this to the Uru Community as a whole. I very well might be ignorant, out of line or even way off base, but my understanding of Cyan releasing the Open Source Code, Tools, etc... was from the Chogon posts via Myst Online Uru Live forum. Cyan would release in stages and to the Guild of Writers, at least in MORE, the Code Source, etc...

The Guilds, Cyan set up and established at the end of MO*UL as the entities for managing the Uru Community Members Fan Created Art Content for future use has run a course of many ups and downs. As I understood it, the Guilds where based upon the Archive Story line of the D’ni Governing Order. And yet, did not the Guilds answer to a central figure, the King for over all guidance, centralized purpose and direction?
The Guilds have grown and organized themselves considerably well under the constant uncertainty and instability of a promised third (3) return for MOUL. Threads to organized and centralize the Guilds roles and combined purposes have grown up and withered, grown up and withered, sustained only by the core Uru Community techs, artists and story tellers with no real outcome ever accomplished.. At least not that I can find in the public forum threads clearly stated and updated and to date.
The announcement of “Myst Online Open Source Experiment” being one of many proposed names, has again breathed new life into the Guilds and Cavern..
In surfing through the many Forum threads, I have seen great efforts to establish a system or website to centralize the Guilds and a place for Official Threads of Posts for the Uru Community to grow upon. Thus far, Myst Online Uru Live is the most recognized Official place. To me, the efforts to organize the Guilds into clear and defining roles seems to have alluded all the Guilds efforts to accomplish, as well as the Uru Community as a whole. By all means, please post the thread link if there is a central governing theme and purpose stated and agreed upon by all the guilds and uru community if you know of it.

To me there seems to be an ongoing lack of cohesive roles and purpose within the Guilds System. Or Maybe I haven yet found that central post of overall purpose. Everyone is so overly concerned about any group or panel members having any real power over the Guilds, that there remains no real ability between them all to act together as a whole with the Uru Community members being any real part of any process. We are letf more as spectators, with our threads ending with wirthered results. While each Guilds organizational structures and web sites got established and purposes defined, who organized the Guilds as a whole to act and work together or with the Uru Community Members? Because I don’t see any centralized “Official Thread” or place for which they speak together and to the Uru community as one Guild Voice.
I propose there needs to be a Master Guild comprising a panel membership made up of a member from each Guild, not to represent the Guilds interests, but the Uru Communities interests and will as a whole in what is done..
The Uru Community of the Master Guild. This Uru Community of the Master Guild would be for organizing Uru Community issues and concerns into structured threads posts in a central location of thread topics, establish and define a voting system for the community as a whole to express what they would like to see happen, done, etc... The Guild of Messengers could run an Official Uru Community of the Master Guild thread for posting the results of the voting and what and how the other Guilds did in getting those things tasked to them accomplished.
The Uru Community of the Master Guild could act as the Community Watchdog for all the Guilds in conveying the will of the Uru Community and not just the will of a single or pair of Guilds and their heads. A Democratic Uru Community for deciding the direction and issues facing the coming Open Source. I have read a few threads based upon something similar in the past, but the threads always died out over and over from the long Cyan silences between announcements of hope and doom. It is the lack of an Official Forum Thread being Officiall established and run for and by the Uru Community to centralize what is being done, accomplished and what is to come and when. This is what I think cripples the Uru Community and Guilds efforts the most. The Guilds need to harness the heart and drive of the Uru Community. This is my own opinion and frustration!

Where is the ongoing OFFICIAL thread for how things stand with the Guilds (GoW) and Cyan with Open Source Uru? Other than what Chogon posts on occasions. Where is the follow up to those posts as to what will and is being done, where those things stand at any given time?

Of all the things any of, if not all of the Guilds could accomplish, I wish it would be to establish a unified OFFICIAL sticky thread of running topics of News. Sticky Threads of posts updated of the status of what has been done, is being done and still needs doing. Place where the Uru Community can see where things stands at any given time as to MOOSE or what ever it has, might be called. This being good example for the need to establish a Uru Community system for the Guilds to maintain a Thread for posting things decided upon by votes. Haven’t exactly seen anything established for the Uru Community members to go and vote on matters discussed and framed for a vote. Oh that's right, there isn't any Officially established or recognized system or panel members to run the Myst OnLine Uru Live Community forum or threads for which community members could synthesize matters down into a vote format by which the Uru Community voice might get heard.
BAD had a thread post on Guild of Writers Board index News Administration Representative Discussion in topic “Time to do this.”
http://forum.guildofwriters.com/viewtop ... 559#p28559
Councilor of Artistic direction job position, whereby he said it quite well as to how he felt about wanting to get Members better organized i.e. artists, coders and modelers for projects that might otherwise never come about or stall out and be lost.
I felt the way he did, but more so as to no real central coordination of the Guilds in their efforts and roles in conjunction to the Uru Community Members as a whole. I felt the Uru Community as a wholes needs a more unified system for getting and helping to drive and get things done.
A place to find and Post things that become of debated interest within the community and what the outcome is as to what the community voted.. Maybe I am the only one who still has a sense of the Guilds dysfunction, lack of cohesiveness in putting together a central panel membership of the Guilds for working out a master plan and system for the Uru Community to follow what is going on and voice with. I want to know if I am alone in feeling this way or seeing things like this. Please Post links for topics discussed that you felt was relevant, important, but never was handled for a Uru Community decision, because no one had the recognized authority to take hold of it and get the topic distilled down into a Community vote.
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Last edited by Jahmen on Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:21 am 
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For a starting review, have a look at this post and the ones before it.

re: threads of special interests...
http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewto ... 070#269070

I beleive that a special list for Open Uru related threads from the Main Sites
is a great idea. (the same list could be copied on each of them)

You have my "blessing". Image

I did not start such a list because my technical knowledge is about "niet" and
I am not able to understand a good 75-95% of the present comments.

Good luck.

P.S.
An all capital letters text like the top of you post is like shouting
and generally seen as being impolite.

Suggestion: Use bolded letters or the Font size option box at the
top left side in the reply window.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:06 pm 
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Jahmen, many would like to see all the information nicely organized in a central place. There are several problems that prevent that from happening. Notice I did not write that it is impossible. AW maintains an ongoing effort to collect and reference important information here.

Quote:
The Guilds, Cyan set up and established at the end of MO*UL as the entities for managing the Uru Community Members Fan Created Art Content for future use...


Which guilds is it that Cyan set up? Most of the guilds I know formed before MOUL, a few during and some since. But, all those were set up by fans. Which guilds do you have in mind when you think of guilds setup by Cyan? The original storyline IC guilds may be?

Fans have broken into groups based on their interests. The creative types can be found in small guilds like the Artists' guild and the larger GoW. They have a forum that works for them. Talking them into using this one and giving up theirs, I don't think that is going to happen. There are benefits and reasons they use their own forum and formed it in the fist place. Until those benefits and reasons change...

The techie types are spread around. They seem to be congregating on GoMa and OpenUru.org to deal with OS software issues.

The amount of material the fans are dealing with is huge. AW spent considerable time researching and linking to the important information and threads here. Still people are having trouble finding what they are looking for. Its better, but there are still problems.

The more information that is added here, the more there is to dig through to find what one is looking for.

Plus I have not even gone into the political problems and personalities involved. For instance, JWP wanted to set up OpenUru.org. I opposed the idea. Yet, another forum... noooo. He was free to set it up, did, and people are doing a good job there and the forum is reasonably popular. I think it serves and important group of people and it works well for them. They use that forum because of the benefits it provides them and because it works better for them than the MOUL forum does. I would rather they had used an existing forum. Some others feel that way too. For various reasons some people refuse to post to or read that forum, just as some do this forum, and so on long that line. I think that is counter productive. I read many of them and post on a lot of them. Its more effort. But that is the way it is.

If you read a lot you will find that on GoW an idea may be boiled down for a time and then posted here. Same with some of the other forums. Other times it is splashed across several forums at the same time. Each month the Messengers summarize what is going on and publish a newspaper. I think that is as good as it will ever get in the Uru community. We have never been united in anything but a love of Uru, and those reasons are varied.

I wish you luck with getting everyone united and posting here.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:28 am 
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Nalates wrote:
The techie types are spread around. They seem to be congregating on GoMa and OpenUru.org to deal with OS software issues.


Uhm... I'm really not seeing many people who know what they're talking about at both places (mostly GoMa).

I see people hacking out plans based on misinformation for the most part (this board is rank with this behavior but that's beside the point).

You called yourself a "techy type"--if I recall correctly--yet you don't seem understand what's actually going on with the Plasma Engine and don't seem to want to hear people who actually know.

Sorry for the somewhat harsh words here.

I feel that not including the GoW in this crowd was an intentional snipe at us. Then, there're people at GoMa getting the number of servers Uru uses wrong and most of the others there believing them.

Also, how much actual opensource software publishing do those two before mentioned entities do?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Lontahv, you shouldn't assume the GoW has a monopoly on open source developers and technically orientated/minded people.

I do know of some technically orientated people who would not touch the guilds with a 10-foot-pole..


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:00 am 
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GoW has a fair share of techies. They maintain the PyPRP and built their own branch of it. They maintain a wiki on PyPRP, Drizzle, ULM, tutorials and etc. I’m aware of all those. I meant the GoW no disrespect. But per capita I think GoMa and OpenUru.org have more techies and that makes information easier to find on those sites. If you disagree with that, point it out on merits and at least try to stay on topic.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:03 am 
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kaelisebonrai wrote:
Lontahv, you shouldn't assume the GoW has a monopoly on open source developers and technically orientated/minded people.

I do know of some technically orientated people who would not touch the guilds with a 10-foot-pole..


Did I say I assumed that? I only mentioned that the GoW was ONE of the entities that has a fair number of "techies". You're getting this view from somewhere else.

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