A Controversy Engaged: Warrior Guilds

Keiya · **Joined:** Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:08 pm **Posts:** 66

I dunno, I wouldn't really want it... the ability to pick up a stick and goof off on Relto, though, would be kinda fun.

Whilyam · **Joined:** Tue May 09, 2006 1:04 am **Posts:** 4134

It might work as a funny emote like /fly.
You type out /battle and the screen reads: "You flail around for a few seconds and defeat the imaginary monster! 3 billion EXP!"

Ja'de · **Posted:** Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:40 pm

Quote:

The one thing that seperates Myst from other games is the lack of violence and weapons

Weapons maybe if you don't count rocks. I see plenty of violence though we as explorers didn't take part. Just ask Wheely and Rose or any former occupants of the slave pens. Maybe if they had a weapon they'd still be with us.

Whilyam · **Joined:** Tue May 09, 2006 1:04 am **Posts:** 4134

The thing that really separates Myst/Uru from other games is the lack of rewarded/encouraged, player-initiated violence.

Puden · **Joined:** Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:10 am **Posts:** 10

two big thumbs-down on weapons/violence/combat .......... ewwwwwwwww

Gondar · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:29 am

I'm just wondering now.. this is an interesting ideas for more reasons than some people think.

We've already seen fallout of stuff like ths. Remember the whole idea of shards? Imagine, if you will, we get open source Uru, and we can set up our own shards. But Cyan keeps MOULa running too, as another shard in the list (like D'mala was at one point). Remember the UserKI? We had all sorts of arguments here already about that too. It all boils down a lot to the same fundamental question however.

How much diversity and control do we want? How much will we ALLOW? How much does Cyan want to give us? Are they going to say "here's the code, but you can't change a thing of our established content or implied content like D'ni history, and have to follow the FCAL guidelines. Oh, and you have to follow these stylistic guidelines too, if you want to use our ages. Oh, and you can't do X Y or Z to the game either. If you want that redo your own thing. Oh and you can't use or reference our characters either. Or ages. Or anything connected to D'ni."

Mmmh. That's their perogative.. but the question think comes up about how much diversity versus 'purity' people want. We can always keep purity with only one server run by Cyan, no shards, no open source beyond bugfixes. Sure you can have your ages, but they're kept in the new-Age ghetto, segregated. Don't touch our pure plotline of D'ni canon with your 'interpretations' and 'interpolations' and imagining new stuff as anything other than fantasy. It'd be like what they say Second Life is. All these unassociated worlds all just free-floating. You can explore them, but there's no continuity.

It seems some of us WANT that. They don't want a server that pretends anything. Don't pretend you can imagine the timeline, only Cyan can do that, and if you try pretending hypotheticals we will CUT YOU DOWN because we are fans in the pure fanatic sense of the word, and Cyan is our holy gospel.

Maybe I'm just starting to get bitter and cynical of all of these things. Maybe it mirrors too much of what I've seen in the world. My own views are known.. but they have no bearing on this. What gets me and what hurts me is we want to protect what we love so dearly we will smother it to death and strangle anyone who suggests otherwise, who suggests that we let it free even the little bit. Perhaps that's why some people are campaigning so strongly to push us to Second Life.. they see the barriers we're setting on ourselves and want to flee from that, keeping friends with them. This is beyond a matter of "well do what you want on your shard, we'll do what we want on ours" this is the point of screaming "no don't do that you'll KILL URU".

I say his idea is remarkably thought out compared to some you see, and I am GLAD for that. I hope if it comes to it he finds a shard he can work with for that... and it keeps itself going with something to offer for other types too. And I hope the less liberal members of the community realize that part of being a community is a matter of realizing diversity exists, and the only way to stamp it out.. is to get rid of everyone.

And with that enough rambling from me. I doubt most people will read this beyond quoting lines to shout at.. I always write too much particularly late at night when feeling sorry for myself and us. Though.. who knows? My only hope is that people will read this and go "He's a mean person/people, we're fine, and here's what we'll do to show so" or "He's right, man how could we do such a thing? Here's what we'll do to show others!" or "Wow, you know, I never thought of it like that and I don't know either way, but it does raise interesting ideas for me to ponder. I think some is right and some is wrong, and here's why and what I'll do with that"

As long as it gives THOUGHT. Because we can't continue praising the ground Cyan worships on if they are going to be unable to continue it... and me, I'd rather switch to a gas flame than stare at burnt embers because we worried passing the torch would ruin it.

-Gondar (Muffincakes)

Nalates · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:37 pm

Gondar, well thought out. Your mood at the time of writing may have colored your thoughts a bit darker than things are. While I agree with the points you bring up, I’m more optimistic. I also see more possibilities. Also, I’m not worried about what the intolerant think and say… I’ll listen, but unless they have valid points other than their fear… I’ll continue my path. After all only Cyan has any control and that only reaches so far.

Goloth, I’m curious how you know why they made Uru?

Consider. They made it for a present day game with current day characters in it (U-r-u). They omitted player vs player combat and player vs environment competition. They also made it as immersive as they could. No where do I see that they avoid discussion of conflict. A Barho war almost got started. They were working to add some role play conflict to the game to add spice. That some players want to add combat should come as no surprise. Nor should violence be considered foreign to the D’ni. We have records of the things they were doing that are similar to what we in see the world now.

Whilyam is right about: “The thing that really separates Myst/Uru from other games is the lack of rewarded/encouraged, player-initiated violence.” I also think a majority of fans would like to keep it that way and I think that includes Cyan.

Building reward systems and leveling things into the game will not be simple. That alone should prevent or at least significantly delay its addition to private shards. Plus Cyan may restrict how their content (ages) are used. I consider it VERY likely Cyan content cannot be used in a combat scenario. Myst style builds like the Fallout 3 and Team Fortress folks are playing with is already happening. But, those are NOT within MOULagain.

The OpenSIM and Second Life worlds have combat gaming systems. Some are free and some have a cost. It would be possible to build a Myst Style age with combat there. That could be done today.

Interestingly all those building in those systems have not added that combat feature to their ages. I think that says something about where open source will go. While there may be someone that builds a combat system for Open Uru, I think, it would be, for practical purposes, a completely separate game. I can’t image how one could mix that shard in with shards that did not have those features. Too many software incompatibilities.

I expect open source to reach a point where one can link out to other worlds. The standard HTTP links used in various OpenSIM/SL related worlds can work from within Open Uru. Some months ago the use of HTTP links for classrooms was looked at. A link is a link. So, unless Cyan restricts linking from within open source… and that blocks classroom use too… freedom is better. Because of the non-violent and kid friendly environment Myst is being used in more and more classes.

Devokan and Crux Isle are very Myst like. I would not be surprised to see more FCAL builds like Crux Isle in Second Life. At OpenUru.org and GoMa we are considering how we might link to such places. A part of the consideration is how to let people know what they are linking to, puzzles, combat…

All of these things hinge on what Cyan writes into their licenses. Fortunately none of the intolerant really has a say. The flip side is the wild kids also have no say where others play. The game universe is big enough for everyone.

jadawin12 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:17 pm **Posts:** 270

I've been looking over this proposal carefully... well as carefully as I can at 3 in the morning but here are my thoughts.

1. I see no reason for Warrior Guilds not working... as long as they have purpose. For example the Guild of Maintainers watches over Ages for the most part, and makes sure people are not abusing the Ages. An armies purpose is more for a defense against an invading body... which is perfectly possible as there could be hacked off Age inhabitance who go after d'ni but for the most part the Army may be a bit bored unless trying to protect against a Bahro attack or if a Guild/group asked for assistance. Or maybe even creating the new Prison Ages...

2. Weapons in the Cavern... bad idea. If you want them in your own Age no problem but the Cavern should stay without weapons because even if they are sheathed it is asking for trouble in my opinion. Having people without weapons and people with regularly interacting is just a plant that may lead to bad things happening.

3. Seek out non-violent solutions. One of my favorite shows is Doctor Who and in those shows the title character goes against monsters and adavanced cultures and never uses weapons of his own but always wins. Another good example is I remember the story of the old samurai who was considered the greatest swordsman ever so he was continually challenged to duel. When challegenged by a young samurai he agreed to the duel but required the battle be done on a small island they rowed out to the small island on a small boat and the young samurai rushed out onto the shore. The old samurai just rowed away the young samurai shouted after him. "What about the duel." and the old samurai replied " I discovered a way to defeat you without ever drawing my blade..."

4. Veovis had a knife,,, Gehn had a heek... not that they help anything but they are fact.

Goodnight all

A Controversy Engaged: Warrior Guilds

Who is online