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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:22 am 
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My own Observations: I am wrong? Is there room for a better system? Better defined roles?
Some posts I have read, expressed that many Uru Explorers seem to be of a mostly single minded nature, lone wolf types who loved those stand alone Myst games more than Uru. :oops: I myself stand guilty as accused! :oops:
:twisted: Other types seem to cause the uru community to suffer fragmentation. :twisted: Guilty again without wanting to be intentionally.
The Guilds evolutionary struggles to define their Guilds roles and limits in working with one other turned out mismash.
:? They seem to compete with one another in replicating places for Ages to be built & tested. :?
:shock: Some might might remember witness the bumpy road of ego power struggles the process turned out to be. :shock:
I am unable see any defined lines and rolls to which they work their particular function as one would expect to have seen in the true D'ni traditions.
Instead, our Guilds system seems blurred from each trying be everything to and for all the community.
One has to wonder how Cyan might have organized them individually into their particular functions and roles.
The whole thing seems parlyzed in fears of to much power and authority for any one Guild or system.
:?: Where is the Cyan King! :?: :roll:

My own thoughts; Half Facetious Outline
Guild of Messengers being the place where the other guilds post announcements ,events, ect...
Guild of Writers being where the story and age get built.
Guild of Maintainers being the place ages get sent to be tested and refined for release.
Guild of Cartographers being where the writers send ideas to be mapped into visuals to aid building.
Guild of Greeters hmmm With out OP URU? :roll:

I just have to think the current Guild system is not what Cyan had in mind nor would have done.
Seems so dysfuntional and scatters the uru community into drawing lines.

To end on a more positive note. Yes! They have worked very hard to overcome lots of problems.
Yes! They have accomplished and organized a lot. 96 Ages already created and counting about 14 game quality..
Can't take that away from them! Surviving the uncertainty of Open Source returning the Online game.

POST is not to put them down but inject opinions for improving them, helping them.
Create a uru community mirror for them to see themselves in the eyes of uru explorers from their posted opinions and views of them. Post frustrations, disappointment and the POSITIVE PLEASE !


Last edited by Jahmen on Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:18 am 
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There needs to be a unified interguild entity to collectively bind them. I had the spark of idea about that and not so long ago approached several people I would trust with anything. They all declined because I think it's just too loaded an issue when you have a real life to live. It is a daunting task, not the least of which is trust, cooperation and sharing resources when with some things there can be only one owner. The core needs ultimate trust and must be capable of transparently honoring the responsibilty. Tough to find.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:49 am 
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007
http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 076#194076
greydragon wrote:
Remember, the guild system will change in the future. Feel free to talk to each other about what you would like to see in a guild system. Cyan has a plan for what it wants the system to be and we hope to show you that plan in the future.

I see a few problems.

1- Cyan never did come back with a real update for its plan.

2- Some people with big ego have taken over the task of imposing their "views" about
what some Guilds should be or become. Many of them being GMs on different Guilds
which leads me to beleive that they have a well hidden agenda. (the image I see in my mind
is almost like a kind of an "Uru Jonesville" or "Waco" type.


Last edited by Artic_Wagon on Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:22 am 
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I suspect Cyan never anticipated the guilds being anything like what we see. I have never heard it expressed by Rand whether the guilds were a story device to just add color to the D’ni or was a pot device to add tension and may be explain some in-game happenings.

All my experience tells me all the guilds formed by fans with similar interests coming together to help people or accomplish something. None of the guilds have been more than a group of likeminded fans.

Today fans are still gathering in likeminded groups and doing their things. The fan base has spread to several virtual worlds. Jeff in Eder D’Uru is forming a new set of guilds and experimenting to see how well new structures may work and evolve. Again there are new fan needs in SL that never existed or were possible for players to participate in. The Guild of Maintainers is spreading through virtual worlds where they can be of service to builders.

The existing OOC guilds have been pretty well defined. But it does not really matter how we define the guilds or describe their job descriptions. If you have ever looked at what the GoC was doing 2004, you will see it was more than just mapping. When you look at the GoW you see programmers (which guild do they fit in?), fine artists (why aren’t they over at GoFA?), story writers, people making maps, 3D modelers, people working with Plasma and server side code and more. Look at the GoMa and you find the same thing, a wide range of activities.

The point here is no matter how you describe the guilds and their activities; almost every guild has someone involved in nearly every aspect of the game’s creative process. The guilds are an abstract thing we use as a handy fun way for people to work together. They formed for natural reasons and the fans adopted the story IC names they liked and thought fit. At best they can only be described as loosely descriptive.

If one were to refine that, what would we gain for the effort?

…JWP rips on Jahmen in another thread for being totalitarian and then puts forth the idea of an inter-guild system to bind them… (I’m teasing JWP)

@Jahmen, if you think there is a better way to run the guilds, put your ideas forward, do the work to set it up and if it is a workable idea and better, people will use it. JWP’s OpenUru.org is an excellent example. He did not get lots of support. I being one of the ones going ...another forum? But, he persisted and OU is filling a need and moving several subjects ahead.

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Last edited by Nalates on Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:42 pm 
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I did edit some posts and removed some reactions.
Please try to be constructive in your reactions.
If you notice a message in another forum do react on that place and not here.
I expect we can have a constructive follow up for this thread.
Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:13 pm 
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Here's an interesting bit of history regarding the Uru Guilds. Lee Sheldon is a game designer and writer (both Hollywood and computer games) who is credited with Story Design for Uru: Ages beyond Myst, and who also did other work for Cyan in the development of the online Uru. Here's an extended excerpt from his book, Character Development and Storytelling for Games:
Lee Sheldon wrote:
One of the systems I worked on for Uru: Ages beyond Myst was a guild system, based on the preliminary work we'd done in The Gryphon Tapestry. It was near the end of my tenure at Cyan, and I'm not sure how widely distributed that document was, or if any of it made it into the multiplayer version of the game, another one that died in beta. ...

[NOTE: The following mostly refers to guilds in The Gryphon Tapestry]:
My thought was to create "state-run" guilds (hey, it works for totalitarian regimes!) that players could join, with solid structures, paths for advancement, and special skills or products non-guild members would need. The guilds could be based on the adventure aspects of the game, crafting, or any other major factors.

In the beginning, man the guilds with the NPCs. Then over time allow players to succeed to those positions through elections, even the highest. Such guilds can be a source for quests and stories. When a particular NPC has been voted out of office in a guild, we can give him a story. He moves to another guild, or becomes an embittered opponent. The story progresses as the world moves on.

We also allow players to form their own entrepreneurial guilds in competition with the NPC-run guilds, and give them all the tools necessary to match the gameplay of the others, including the ability to create objects and rewards. It never got to this point, but eventually we expected players would control all the guilds, but those guilds would be solidly anchored within the world fiction, and would still be resources for authorial storytelling.

Now, most of the detail in that quotation refers to guilds in The Gryphon Tapestry, but the general idea of starting with in-game, developer-run guilds and then allowing a slow but steady "takeover" as well as competition sounds pretty cool. Unfortunately, Cyan didn't follow that path, either because guilds didn't get introduced until late in the game or because Cyan simply didn't choose to follow Sheldon's suggestions. Cyan has always had a tin ear in regard to the social aspects of Uru (Liaisons, liaisons, liaisons .....), but in this case it was probably aggravated by the lack of resources to give any in-game guidance. (Although, on the third hand, I still feel as if Cyan too often treats players as rats in a poorly designed maze....)

I corresponded with Sheldon awhile back and asked him if that design document he mentions in the beginning was anywhere around. He said he did not have a copy (and probably would not have released it if he had, as it was a work product for Cyan).

Maybe Cyan would be willing to release that document as part of the open sourcing of Uru?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:47 pm 
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I don't see the problem.
People are diverse and I can't understand why they should be forced into restricted spaces, especially with the overlapping functions we have in places.

Sorry, but that excerpt from Lee Sheldon's book sounds horrible. Some people speak of World of warcraft as "your second job" - this sounds worryingly much like an even better fit for that epiteth.

Now, to many people, climbing the corporate ladder is a goal in itself and I suppose for them, it could be nice with an opportunity to do what they may not fully manage in real life... (Yes, I'm an unfair burger :P)

I do understand that Cyan would have needed a stable framework, within their control, to work with, with their story/players meshing, but...
I guess multiplayer gaming is just not for me... :7


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:48 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
Quote:
Jahmen, if you think there is a better way to run the guilds, put your ideas forward, do the work to set it up and if it is a workable idea and better, people will use it. JWP’s OpenUru.org is an excellent example. He did not get lots of support. I being one of the ones going ...another forum? But, he persisted and OU is filling a need and moving several subjects ahead.


OK Nalates I will put forward some better ways guilds might be run.
As far as doing the work to set it up? I won’t pretend to be savvy at setting up and running a Guild web site, moderating, doing code, blender or having all or many of the talents so many explorers have, use and contributed with. Even so, I am not with out some talents and abilities. More importantly though, as a fellow explorer in Uru I chose to try to help in my own way.

In fact Nalates, what I will suggest comes from professionals and what they say and offer.
Other suggestions come from core of explorers posting in the forums I have found and assimilated into my own way of trying to understand the big picture.
I am probably more of a mirror. That often has some reacting to what they see not liking it. Just trying to help the Uru community see things from other perspectives. Hopefully might help improve what they are doing. I don’t pretend to know better, be better or have all the answers. Just pointing out things I see that don’t always make sense or could use some work from where I sit.

My suggestion(s).

Here is what I have found to use in making some suggestions with.

First: MustardJeep Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:37 am Subject: Team Age building

Quote:
1. If you want a good team start with your friends.
2. Learn from a Game Mod community setup and run by a Game company for their game.
3. If all of your friends are out of high school but not yet retired spend more time on planning; If they are all retired or in high school be more accepting of their designs.
4. Accept the mistakes no one likes to admit, and build a small test age outside of Uru if you can't build it inside.


I thought his post was really good place to start with helping organize teams, though noticed it also might fit the Guilds.
I googled online game companies to see what and how they make games.
What I found was articles from those in the gaming industries on how they do it and what the common problems and misconceptions are that often derail and delay projects.

It was clear to me from reading through the ABC’s of how projects are set up and run that the Guilds had perhaps unknowingly, fallen into many of the things spoken of in those articles. To that end I felt compelled to bring out some of these points for them to see in the hopes it could help them become better at what they do.
I am still reading through and trying distill it down into Open Source Uru age building for teams, though the same might also fit the Guild efforts as I have come to believe.

Here is some of what I have already. Just started. For posting on my organizing teams thread.
Source http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/articl ... story=3972

NOTE: Before all you explorers go off posting how this is wrong and this can’t be that.
THIS THREAD IS FOR POSITIVE, CONSTRUCTIVE POST IDES FOR HOW TEAMS CAN BE ORGANIZED AND FORMED TO WORK AND FUNCTION IN BUILDING AGES IN OPEN SOURCE URU.
It is NOT for creating a debate on the topics of the politics of controls and rules and everything else under the sun some like to post just to post to stir the pot!
The information is research I found from online publications on the topics of game making from Game companies and those in the industries who have shared their knowledge there of. It is mostly comprised of the things I believed to be key points taken and adapted into the simplest form of basics I could manage. These are points and knowledge not of my own, but those within the game industries posted in articles I found and took pieces from and put into the context of Uru Age building.

This was done in response to MustardJeep’s Posted suggestion number 2.

Leaders with good management skills are ideally started from those who have experience from being a part of a successful Age build group. An individual small age build project is ideal to develop a team for larger and more complex Age builds later on. Advantage, leaders will emerge from smaller team efforts to start their own projects and teams for Age builds. Open Source Uru will most likely develop team leaders who have already been a part of team builds.


Production:
Broken down into compartments, tasks and work cycles. Helps with proper placements.
Story Writer(s), Art Director, Graphics, Music, Sounds, etc...
Individual team members can be seen during the course of a small Age build project to demonstrate an inclination to work with others and do so effectively. The team leader can get group feedback and have sessions at early stages to get an indication of what to expect overall in the ways of how well everyone can work together. Setting up working cycles in which small set goals of tasks can be done. Again, this allows everyone a chance to see how well they work together and get along. Individual team members can become competitive or more motivated about the Age build from experiences of cycle successes. Individual work ethics and sense of responsibility to their specific task lists

Several possible points of failure in Age building with regrettable regularity is the lack of people to fill the tasks needed for the Age build. Another is

1. The Age build is greater in scope than what can realistically be accomplished with those participating in the team effort.

2. Leadership, individual team members or both haven’t the aptitude or desire to manage the Age build.

3. Issues of favoritism or nepotism and simple inexperience will exist.

Favoritism can be extremely dangerous, even if it is merely perceived to exist. It often can be very detrimental. Far worse, an individual is not qualified or is perceived to be not performing to expectations and no action is seen to be taken by the leader or leadership. Most common errors based on inexperience involve selecting leads based solely on production art, design, or coding skills.
The result is often a lead who is most comfortable doing the job that he or she has always done and trusting that the team will take care of itself from a supervisory perspective.
Few if any teams are capable of self management and it become more impossible for larger groups that require far more communication coordination.

Ideal and the Real
Find the right people and match them to the right role within the Age building project.

Get the idea? I am attempting rewriting and adapt what I pull from articles to fit with Open Source Uru teams. Though I thought the same could benefit the guilds. I couldn’t help but see and notice some similarities with the Guilds in regards to setup, leadership, structure, tasking, delegating. I have been attacked in threads for posting things advocating use of - rules - templates - outlines - structure - leadership - etc...
with some post fears of having a Uru police being put into use to enforce everything and WHO will they be who does this.
Uh well I had thought maybe just the need for and the benefits might be enough for them to be incorporated, used, implemented. More of a win them over with common sense, look thses examples and maybe try them approach.
Not! This is how you must do it now do them!

What I am suggesting is this. I see 2 Guilds trying be everything. Duplication!
Perhaps to help sort out some of it. Outline Drafts of what the game companies use and do to run things approach tailored to those guilds, who seem to be over powering others.
Sometime the best way to inffluence change to come about it by pointing to those who can best explain and show better ways to run things. Success is hard to argue with. Plus, those resistent can't really take issue with you, if it is not coming from you, but you pointing to this and saying, "see how they did it and it worked better than what you have or are doing now". Avoid the clashing of egos by taking them out of the mix.


Last edited by Jahmen on Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:07 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Zardoz wrote:
Here's an interesting bit of history regarding the Uru Guilds. Lee Sheldon is a game designer and writer (both Hollywood and computer games) who is credited with Story Design for Uru: Ages beyond Myst, and who also did other work for Cyan in the development of the online Uru. Here's an extended excerpt from his book, Character Development and Storytelling for Games:
Lee Sheldon wrote:
One of the systems I worked on for Uru: Ages beyond Myst was a guild system, based on the preliminary work we'd done in The Gryphon Tapestry. It was near the end of my tenure at Cyan, and I'm not sure how widely distributed that document was, or if any of it made it into the multiplayer version of the game, another one that died in beta. ...

[NOTE: The following mostly refers to guilds in The Gryphon Tapestry]:
My thought was to create "state-run" guilds (hey, it works for totalitarian regimes!) that players could join, with solid structures, paths for advancement, and special skills or products non-guild members would need. The guilds could be based on the adventure aspects of the game, crafting, or any other major factors.

In the beginning, man the guilds with the NPCs. Then over time allow players to succeed to those positions through elections, even the highest. Such guilds can be a source for quests and stories. When a particular NPC has been voted out of office in a guild, we can give him a story. He moves to another guild, or becomes an embittered opponent. The story progresses as the world moves on.

We also allow players to form their own entrepreneurial guilds in competition with the NPC-run guilds, and give them all the tools necessary to match the gameplay of the others, including the ability to create objects and rewards. It never got to this point, but eventually we expected players would control all the guilds, but those guilds would be solidly anchored within the world fiction, and would still be resources for authorial storytelling.

Now, most of the detail in that quotation refers to guilds in The Gryphon Tapestry, but the general idea of starting with in-game, developer-run guilds and then allowing a slow but steady "takeover" as well as competition sounds pretty cool. Unfortunately, Cyan didn't follow that path, either because guilds didn't get introduced until late in the game or because Cyan simply didn't choose to follow Sheldon's suggestions. Cyan has always had a tin ear in regard to the social aspects of Uru (Liaisons, liaisons, liaisons .....), but in this case it was probably aggravated by the lack of resources to give any in-game guidance. (Although, on the third hand, I still feel as if Cyan too often treats players as rats in a poorly designed maze....)

I corresponded with Sheldon awhile back and asked him if that design document he mentions in the beginning was anywhere around. He said he did not have a copy (and probably would not have released it if he had, as it was a work product for Cyan).

Maybe Cyan would be willing to release that document as part of the open sourcing of Uru?

That sounds like a solid idea, but it faces one major challenge in Uru: all of the people that fear/hate guilds/leadership/organization because of what happened in the stories of the Myst series.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:48 pm 
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Jahmen, whether your ideas for building better teams are good or not, I'm not sure what they have to do with "Guilds" in the context of the Uru universe. Guilds should play a role in Uru, rather than merely be sources of fan labor for an open source software product. Until there is a role for Guilds inside the Uru world, then my personal opinion is that it is silly to even call them "Guilds". This was brought home with great force when Cyan opened up the Guild Halls. They were .... different colors?!?!?!

As for Frisky Badger's point, I think the utter lack of Cyan's (open) involvement in building the Guilds basically feeds that paranoia. Given that, calling your group the Guild of Anything gives the appearance of power grabbing, D'ni history or not. I say, dismantle the Guilds, reform them exactly as they are, and call them Clubs, because that's what they are.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:14 pm 
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Zardoz wrote:
As for Frisky Badger's point, I think the utter lack of Cyan's (open) involvement in building the Guilds basically feeds that paranoia. Given that, calling your group the Guild of Anything gives the appearance of power grabbing, D'ni history or not. I say, dismantle the Guilds, reform them exactly as they are, and call them Clubs, because that's what they are.


I agree that Cyan being more involved probably would have made the Guilds at least a little more tolerable for people. As far as dismantling them and calling them clubs, Cyan is pretty much out of the picture storywise (at least until Myst and Riven on the iPhone/iPod Touch as well as the Myst movies are a runaway smash :D ). People are going to have start trusting explorer groups; whether they're called Guilds or Clubs doesn't matter.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:14 pm 
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This is so interesting that this conversation is taking place, especially to me, because this is just the sort of gap I once tried to fill with the Assembly of Guilds forum.

That failed for several reasons, three of which being the fact that the need wasn't fully developed, the support just wasn't there, and there was too much confusion between IC and OOC matters. But at this point, it seems like that sort of thing is really what is needed-- not even so much to "organize" the Guilds, but more provide a platform for intra-Guild communication. On a whole, coordinating conversations between whole groups is not only hard, but isn't even happening at all. Most communication between the Guilds at this point is done via the GM or on an individual scale, and this is perfectly fine. But for broad topics like cross-Guild relationships, Guild structure, and cooperation, one almost needs a Guild Hall just to get everyone in one place long enough to discuss it.

This is partly what bothered me about the "Guild Pubs". They served a purpose, but while it was nice for the Guilds to have a place dedicated to congregating in-game, the fact that there was no way for these groups to coalesce in one place forced communication onto the forum, thus separating it from the game entirely. And once Cyan made the Guild forum, the AoG's purpose became defunct.

The one good thing that came out of the AoG was the Guild of Maintainers. We gave them a home and a place to collect and organize before they moved on. So at this point, would "another forum" be beneficial to intra-Guild communication? Yes and no, because if it's not already being attempted here on this forum, there's no reason to believe that having another place to do it will cause people to want to do it.

Now that said, much like JWPlatt's insistence on creating the OU forum, the need wasn't recognized until the solution was in place. Perhaps intra-Guild communication is a similar matter. One might also wonder what intra-Guild communication on a larger scale is even necessary at all, and the answer to that is this thread's very existence. It feels like people aren't satisfied with the current Guild structure and their relationships with each other. But if this is so, the only way something can be done about it is if the Guilds start talking to each other.

JW is right in pointing out that the reason change isn't really happening is because nobody wants to touch the issue. People's outrage at "power-grabbing" and "egos" tends to scare people off. Quite frankly it's disgusting. This is a game we're talking about. We're trying to keep a venue of entertainment alive, and yet the moment someone steps up to try and move things forward, certain people assume the worst and cry loudly every chance they get.

Perhaps if people took a moment to get to know the leaders they have so much distaste for, and examine the motives behind every action instead of translating fictional game lore onto real-life groups, their fears would be alleviated.

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The Guild of Maintainers greatly appreciated the hospitality of the Assembly of Guilds forums, Calam! It truly was the birthplace of GoMa! :D

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:25 pm 
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[spoiler=Do you remember the speech from Dr. Watson?]

Speech Dr Watson 9-12-2007
Good afternoon.
I've been asked for my advice on many issues since my recent return. I really
haven't had time to get caught up on everything that 's been happening here, but
I sat down this morning and attempted to come up with some kind of statement on
the issues that have been brought to my attention.
First, the Guilds. I've been told that there are folks who are very upset that
the DRC are attempting to follow the D'ni lead in taking steps to re-form the
Guilds. They say that the Guilds are "bad", that they inevitably lead to Pride.
The Guilds are not inherently bad in and of themselves. Those who blame "the
Guilds" for the Fall of D'ni have not understood Yeesha's words and have missed
her point completely. The Guilds provided stability and structure for the D'ni
culture, which allowed their civilization to thrive for tens of thousands of
years. The problem with the Guilds in D'ni history is the same thing that's the
problem here in the Cavern today: people. More specifically: our Pride. The very
lesson that Yeesha has repeatedly attempted to teach us.
We already have our own problems of Pride. We haven't needed the Guilds for
that. If things are going to be different this time around, it's up to all of
us, including you Explorers, to choose to be more responsible than the D'ni were
at the time of the Fall.
Just as the Bahro are finding out right now with their newly-found freedoms - it
all comes down to the choices we make. Frankly, from what I've been hearing,
there are many Explorers who are not ready for this responsibility. What's the
alternative? Learn to work together. Stop complaining when things are not
exactly as you'd like them to be. Stop bickering among yourselves. Stop choosing
to divide yourselves. There is much more at stake here than our egos. You do
have the ability to choose to work together. Make that choice.

As for the Cavern, I was asked yesterday if we should all leave the Cavern, so
let me clarify my position. When the Restoration first began, what seems like
decades ago, I gave another speech. In that speech, I explained that I felt
"Called" here. I said that this Cavern was meant to be inhabited, and that it
was our intent to make it habitable once again. (oops, repeating) I said that
this Cavern was meant to be inhabited, and that it was our intent to make it
habitable once again. I was convinced of it. I was sure that the warnings of
Atrus did not apply to those of us from the Surface. I no longer believe that is
the case. But do not misunderstand me, I am still drawn here, but now I'm drawn
to learn the lessons that this Cavern has to teach me. But I will apply those
lessons elsewhere. No longer is it my goal to restore this place with the hope
of reinhabiting it. That is where the DRC and I differ in our opinions. Of
course, I'm perfectly willing to admit that it may turn out that I am wrong;
that they are right. Should we leave, then? No. I think that would be just as
grave an error. As I said, this Cavern still has much to teach us.
But what of the Bahro? The conflict that is going on all around us here in the
Cavern and in many of the Ages? I've been asked why the "bad" Bahro are
attacking us. Is it because they think we're the D'ni? no, I don't think that's
the case. In fact, after hearing of the destruction in Negilahn from Douglas
Sharper, I think it's clear that the Bahro who have chosen to become bent on
destruction are completely indiscriminate about what they destroy. What did the
animals around the pods ever do to the Bahro? They clearly weren't killed for
food. It seems to be destruction simply for the sake of destruction. Cruelty for
the sake of cruelty. they seem to do it just because they can. And the Bahro who
killed Wheely, from the description of events that Michael has given me,
specifically kept her alive while she was trapped. My only conclusion from that
behavior is that it was studying her or toying with her. Which immediately
brings to mind the many Bahro who received a very similar treatment from a D’ni
man who lived in Noloben named Esher. I'm told the Bahro even specifically
attempted to say the word "Noloben" before it attacked her. But what can we do
about the "bad" Bahro? Not much. For now, we are protected. The "good" Bahro
protecting us have created a grand deception for our peace of mind - an illusion
that all is well here in the Cavern and the Ages.
We now know that this is not the case, but how much longer will their protection
last? A week? A month? a year? a decade? a century? I have no idea. Funny thing
about prophecies... they don't always come with an expiration date. But we have
been told that "Destruction is coming." I believe specifically that that
destruction is coming to the Cavern, but I could be wrong about that, too. It is
entirely possible that the "destruction" is a great deal larger than that.
Either way, we need to use the time we are being given to "Find a way. Make a
home." How can we do that? That's where the Guilds come in. We have got to work
together. It will not happen overnight. It will likely take many years, in fact.
But I believe the Guilds are the key.
Yeesha has already been to hundreds of Ages, looking for something, anything,
that might help to end the Bahro conflict, or, at the very least, help to
protect us from it in case there comes a time when the "good" Bahro are no
longer able to. As time passes, it grows increasingly unlikely that anything is
going to be found in an Age the D'ni have or had access to. And so, we are going
to need new Ages at some point. There are those among the Explorers who may
eventually be able to assist in that regard. That is the direction I believe we
must take. The Guilds (and even the Explorers who are not interested in joining
a Guild) will have to work together: writing, maintaining, mapping, and
exploring those new Ages. It is a grand undertaking. And much of it depends on
you Explorers, and how well you choose to work together. Will we be up to the
challenge? That definitely remains to be seen. I hope we are.
Thank you for your kind attention.
[/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:29 am 
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 5:22 pm
Posts: 1814
Location: California
If I look at your recommendations and the guilds, limited to those I’m familiar with, I see it this way;

If you want a good team, start with friends.
I think in the beginning that is how the guilds formed. I was not so much friends with those forming the GoC as we were compatible. Now guilds have elections. Fortunately most of those running for office are already members of a guild and compatible with or friends with the active members of the guild. So, one either believes this recommendation is pretty much the way it is or the guilds need to be take apart and reassembled. But how would one do that and what would we get for having done it? Much less how do you convince existing guilds it is worth the change?

Learn from the Game Mod community…
It sounds as if you a presupposing people are not. What is there from the Game-Mod-communities that you see that the guilds are not using?

If all of your friends are out of high school but not yet retired spend more time on planning;
Are you presupposing they are not spending enough time to too much planning? How would we know what they are planning?

Accept the mistakes no one likes to admit, and build a small test age outside of Uru if you can't build it inside.
…we have three regions (one region per server) in SL that are very Uru like. Thend was experimenting, The Forrest was a fourth Myst-Uru style but that is done. There are two more in the works. There is an award winning Myst-Uru style build in THERE. Plus there are untold UU style servers running for private experimentation. I run an Open Sim to test things I’m building for SL.

Jahmen wrote:
I see 2 Guilds trying be everything. Duplication!

I really don’t see it that way. I mean I know it can’t be the GoC, GoA, GoMe and numerous others. About the only ones I see much POSSIBLE duplication in are the GoW and GoMa. While it may appear they are doing the same things, I say it is only similar. Not real duplication. I have also never gotten the impression from those involved that they wanted to do everything and be a sole source for the Uru community. One is creation oriented and another is testing oriented. The related material is posted at the respective sites and there is considerable overlap.

I do think people in each of those guilds are duplicating tasks. As Andy, a mover and shaker at GoMa (retired now and chasing after donuts), builds Zypher Cove he does many of the same things people at GoW are doing as they build ages. Don’t confuse that with the GoMa wanting to build ages. GoMa is still about testing them. People in the GoMa are building ages and they are writing tutorials and posting them on GoMa. Those posts are not on a guild site because of some decree from the guilds. Those are personal choices made by those doing the work.

So again what is it you think should really change and what would we see different?

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