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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:40 pm 
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 Post subject: Lessons
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:56 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:32 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:58 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:19 pm 
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Now, now, Jojon. I realize that you know me to be an absolutist at heart, but in this case i am not issuing the imperative.

It is the choice of choosing wrongly which Gehn offers so beautifully in those scenes from inside his cage.
And after all, such a choice is the basis for all good literature, is it not?

Besides: Philosophy is really the stuff of life -- only put in fancy clothes.
You don't kid me, Jojon. At heart you really enjoy those slippery slopes [don't you?].

pappou

Edit: [don't you?]

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 Post subject: A New Guild System?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:18 am 
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Last edited by Jahmen on Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:17 pm 
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@Jahmen:

I believe what Nalates might have meant, was the old adage that "you can't please everybody all the time". "The overall community" is not some sort of Gaia hivemind, that speaks with one voice. No matter WHAT you do, you are bound to irritate SOMEone.


As for part two of your post:
(If anybody feel pointed out here; please don't -- there is no way you could be as crazed as some people in the other community, I'm about to mention.)

Some people are doers, that simply go on and be productive. These would be the ones who have come together in the guilds, as they stand and publish newsletters, churn out maps, program tools, builds and tests ages and so on. The really wise ones never let themselves get involved with petty politics.I am pretty sure that everyone involved healthily enough recognise that these guilds have no official status -- the writers in particular have managed to attain a rather open-minded attitude to the whole thing and I can't see any one of them protest, should someone decide to set up his own guild of writers in parallel.
Others are talkers, who are fiery abyss bent on telling others what to do...

Now, I am also part of another "community" revolving around another outdated piece of technology ("Amiga" computers, if you wonder).
This communty is left in total tatters, due to a clique of self-appointed "community leader" figures. They are not "doers" in any true sense, but talkers with ambition: they wanted to "be" someone, despite lacking any relevant skills, so they began talking a lot and use their one real strength: deceit. The Amiga brand, since the fall of the already incompetently managed company that used to make and sell them, has passed hands several times, from one hoax outfit to another and this is where the talkers found their niche as corporate apologists. They try to surpress bad news at any cost, frequently referring to them as "FUD" (fear-uncertainty-doubt) and inflate any moderatly good ones to ludricrous proportions. When alternative paths arose, the talkers would immediately brand the proponents of those "splitters" and not miss an opportunity to trashtalk them.
When bad news became too obvious to ignore, the talkers locked themselves up, with their core group of faithful sheep, into a closed community.

I hope the irony is obvious here:
These people, who still speak so angrily about splitting the community, not only actively CAUSED that very split, but has kept doing it, over and over.


Where is the wardrobe of life left, if there is only one costume allowed?


*gleefully slips down the water slide* :P


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:55 pm 
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So, tell me again: Whats the Problem?

Sorry, Jahmen, if I wandered off course from your preferred theme (I.e.: with my Values comments). But to my mind your whole discussion is a contest between different sources of values.

* DELETE

Every guild probably has its own set of characteristics. I don't really know. What does seem clear is that there are many vague and diverse characteristics in all these guilds, and they make the generalizations appearing in this thread (Jahmen's as well as Nalates and mine and all the others) difficult to unify. We lose contact with the fixes because the descriptions of the Problem are too difficult. The clearest statement of the 'problem' I have seen is Jojon's. But that only applies to GoW. Still, I have seen no 'fixes' proposed for it.

* Edit: I used Jojon's name in vain here; please forgive, Jojon.


The Medium is the Message: PART TWO

Perhaps, there is another way to locate the heart of the Guilds problems.
It seemed to pass unnoticed that someone in an earlier message mentioned the power of the forums. I am not sure why people ignore this as a really ripe problem. I brought up this very issue in the Subterranean Restorations organization, when it was going through one of its several small heart attacks.

My point, since the mod showed little interest in the forum, was to run it democratically, not by moderator fiat. However, I lacked the skill to interest the grouop – except Whilyam, who did wake up to the threat and take active control of the forum.

I mentioned this same democratic procedure on the series of forums that Tweek was setting for artists and photographers and such. That only sent Tweek into a twit and I was effectively banned.

But why, I ask? All the primary control in any on-line organization lies in control of the forum. Both Wihlyam and Tweek know this quite well. I'm sure many others do too, but you won't hear them broadcasting the point. And so far, members have not cared to voice their dismay.

My question to this forum then is, Why not look into the nature of the medium (the guild forums) and don't worry so much about their vague and various messages? The medium of the forum itself is far more amenable to definition; it is the heart of power and no message may get out which is not strained through the medium's filters.

pappou

EDIT: PART TWO Combined at mod's request
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Last edited by mcbride3 on Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:25 pm 
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The Medium is the Message


................................................moved

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Last edited by mcbride3 on Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:29 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:42 am 
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You cut with a sharp sword, Nalates.

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