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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:08 pm 
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Yeh, interesting.

I haven't weighed in here for ages and ages, preferring a below-the-line profile where cyclones, hurricanes, volcanoes, and other natural disasters don't register, but as this has come up over at the Guild I happen to know and love and which has been much bashed here on mystonline, I think it might be time to speak up.

This is the question: WHERE ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE???

Ambient blame keeps trying to find the Greeters, as if this group were somehow singly responsible for the fact that these 400 a week don't seem to stick around, Please. Try to find them. I have. I can't. Can you?

So... I love that we have hit 50,000 as some sort of symbolic victory, but at the same time I think we need to stay realistic about these players. Is it really the fault of the Greeters that these 400 fabulous newcomers don't stick around for very long? Is it? Really? Would a Greeter a day keep the meter in play?

I think the Greeter argument is the ultimate Strawman. My opinon is this: instancing and the peculiar start of the journey in the current incarnation of Uru actually directs new players AWAY from the common areas, so that a natural, organic journey will be mainly performed alone. I have played URU for so long and in so many ways that I am no longer the person to prove that, but my instinct tells me this is so. Myst players, the largest demographic that might be drawn to Uru, are zenlike loners who want the solo experience and likely fear social encounters rather than seek them out. Marry that to a game design that gives the option of lone instances and you have a game made for the solo player, albeit online.

There are never thousands of players clogging up the common areas. Never. And there should be, if there are 1200 newbies, on average, a month.

Now, tell me that Greeters, who by rights would hang out in their pubic hood, or helpfully go proactively to newly created public DRC bevins, or maybe in a pinch see if someone needs help in the public city areas are really the key issue here as to why these players are not being retained.

There is a Greeter hiatus. That is true. We can all agree that isn't helping but I don't think ANYONE can really say with any certainty that it is hurting. So, can we stop saying that? The Greeters are chillin' because it takes a lot of time, energy and organisation to put forth a full roster, and the current level of INTERACTIVE newcomers simply doesn't warrant that. Moreover, the newcomers who do make it into the communal areas are really well taken care of by non Greeters who also happen to love the game and want to help, a position the Greeters has always been in support of, by the way.

It would be a really nice start if we were to stop bashing the Greeters on these forums, as far as interguild communications are concerned. And also that might help us all see where the real problem of player retention might be coming from.

All the best
nerfy

many apologies if I took this off topic, but as I see it these statistics support my point of view. Squish.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:10 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:40 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:25 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Thank you for making my point so brillliantly. The GoG has not now, nor ever has had, a responsibilty to retain players in any form or version of this game. That is, was, and always has been the resonsibility of Cyan, in the main. The GoG's very simple mandate has been to help newcomers who want that initial help so they can go off and enjoy the rest of the game and the community. It is about entree into the game; that's all. I would argue that if anything player retention rests with the other guilds who form the matrix of the community the player will encounter AFTER their initial entree. GoMe is a fine example of this principle at work. (Once a player has been launched into the game, how do we continue, as a community, to communicate with them effectively?). That is why Cyan set up partitioned areas of responsibility as manifested by the individual Guilds in the first place, surely.

Whether or not Greeting works as it should depends on newcomers being able to find their way to the Greeters or the Greeters finding their way to them. Over the years, the ease with which that happened changed as the mechanics, venue and tenor of the game changed.

Things have worked differently in other iterations of the game. A Beginner's Bevin was one way to counteract the impact of those changes that were put in place in the GameTap days. Syphoning Visitors directly into the GoG hood was another. I think I have already outlined the difficulties that currently exist, but, yes, things are NOT THE SAME now. I am sorry we are not on the same page here and I am saddened that you took my reasoned plea to stop bashing the GoG as an invitiation to bash it some more instead. Isn't this a bit like shooting yourself in the foot?

What I would like you, and others, to consider, is this further question: Is this prevailing, pervasive and chronically negative attitude toward the GoG the effect, or instead the cause, of a declining and demoralised Guild? Now, that's an important question if ever there was one.

And again, I am sorry as this has now defintiely derailed this topic - my original purpose was directly connected to interpretation of the statistics earlier posted.

nerfy

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:18 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:21 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:08 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Narameh brings up an interesting point: if a newbie can't even find the GoG, how can they possibly get any help from it?

The problem may not even be at the Guilds' end - it's the way Uru is set up. At the present, when you link to Bevin from Relto for the first time, you get (what seems like) a random DRC Bevin. Perhaps Cyan should set it up so that GoG (or better yet, A Beginner's Bevin) is the default Bevin/Neighborhood.

How can we help newbies if they can't find us and we can't find them?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:49 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:52 pm 
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For the record, I "greet" in the Guild of Greeters Hood every night, albeit late. I have been in the game every night except 4 nights since MOULagain started last Feb.

It has always been my belief that the Greeters lost energy because the game is in a static state with no new content. The vast majority of new players will either:

1. Take a look, and not return (what, no guns and swords?)
2. Take a look and play an Age or two, then not return.

A small percentage will play a lot and make some friends, but lose interest (i.e., no new content).

A smaller percentage sticks around longer, getting involved and making friends. I think it's the social aspect that keeps those folks around.

So, with no new content (and I mean new Ages and gameplay, not Bevin parties), most of the Greeters I have spoken with tell me that they came to the GoG Hood for "duty" and stood for two hours with no visitors. No fun in that. Last night I was in for an hour and had no visitors. All of us will scan the new Hoods for new players, and we also seek out explorers in the City.

Regarding new Greeters, I have suggested several interested explorers as potential Greeters in the past year.

Cheers to all. Enjoy the game!

Dadguy :-)

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