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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:23 pm 
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Herohtar wrote:
Karkadann wrote:
I am kinda wondering, If VoiZod's rumor is untrue, what could have motivate it?
Unless it was just misinformation


Umm... are you familiar with VoiZod's "rumors" at all? :P


No not really.

I was just thinking of the over all effects of such a rumor if people started believing them, considering Spring is almost over,

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:12 pm 
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Nature hates a vacuum, it tends to fill it with crap. It takes about 30 seconds to post some kind of update, even if it's just "we're completely stopped and we hope to make some progress by X". Especially in light of announcements on other products.

I would like to see some kind of update at least once a week. That's not an unreasonable request. If there are parts of the software system that are broken, give us an opportunity to fix them or replace them. We are well into July now.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:18 pm 
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I agree how long does it take to post a one line weekly update I spend more time than it takes trying to decide if I should have tea or coffee as my next hot drink.

Quote:
Back in 1977 I was serving with the Royal Air Force in Germany as a member of the junior ranks and a motor mechanic our social centre was an esteemed but much maligned club known as the NAAFI. The NAAFI club had a machine in the lobby where we could get sandwiches pies etc. out of hours. Nothing fancy.

One night one of the guys returning back to his billet, probably a little worse for wear having been out to sample the local beer returned via the NAAFI looking for something pleasant prior to slumber.

All the machine had left to offer was one large baguette style sandwich stuffed with ham and salad. It was expensive as these things go but it was definitely an object of desire.

The young airman searched his pockets and found he had just enough left for the sandwich so he deposited his last coins and tried to retrieve the last sandwich.

The machine refused to yield reasoning was tried but the dumb machine refused and coin rejection also refused to return his last coins.

Shaking and thumping the machine also left the airman confronted by this last sandwich appearing like a toothy grin on the face of the machine that now stood taunting him.

Now desperate to at least get his money back the airman went into the woods (the billets and NAAFI were located in the woods surrounding the airfield). And here he looked for and found a stout branch with which he proceeded to pummel the toughened glass on the front of the machine.

The glass was thick rounded and extremely strong but the relentless banging eventually cracked the glass unfortunately nowhere near enough to access the sandwich.

The noise had attracted the attention of the NAAFI manager who called the military police who arrived to find the airman sitting on the floor in front of the machine crying.

Next day the said airman was charged and early in the following week was paraded in front of the Officer Commanding Engineering Wing this required that the said airman be escorted and that’s how I got to hear the story being one of the said escorts.

The officer listened to the story an as is the form in such cases the airman was given his chance to add any comments before sentence was passed.

This was his reply (this is not verbatim I am remembering back a good few years).

“Sir just imagine you have returned from a long journey hungry and thirsty from your travels you manage to get a drink of water and someone who calls himself a friend offers you a delightful sandwich in return for the last of the coins in your pocket. This so called friend takes your money but refuses to give you the sandwich. Sir wouldn’t you smash him in the face to try and get the sandwich?”
The officer fined the airman the cost of the glass repair minus the cost of the sandwich and had the NAAFI manager post a sign on the machine with a number where the manager could be contacted should the machine break down again.

Let’s just say the Manager was not a happy bunny as he expected the airman to be punished for venting his anger at the machine.

Here we have an analogy Open Source Uru is the sandwich. The forum is the machine. The community are represented by the airman. The Military Police are the forum moderators. Finally the posts we post are the stick he found in the wood.

Given the way we are beating at the machine to get at the sandwich ranting tearfully at the Military Police wouldn’t it be nice for the NAAFI manager (CYAN) to post that message on the machine to let us know when we may be able to access the sandwich.


PS The sandwich has been in the machine that long it's growing a beard.


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 Post subject: ...sandwhich
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:53 am 
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great story! and i must say that this is a great analogy to what is currently going on. I hope that Cyan takes notice, and gives us the cortesy of at least a small weekly update on what is going on with the Open Source project.


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 Post subject: Re: ...sandwhich
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Dragonfetch wrote:
great story! and i must say that this is a great analogy to what is currently going on. I hope that Cyan takes notice, and gives us the cortesy of at least a small weekly update on what is going on with the Open Source project.


Except that the problem isn't that the machine is broken in this case. The machine works perfectly; it is just working on something that some in the community aren't necessarily interested in.

jmdoggett wrote:
Nature hates a vacuum, it tends to fill it with crap. It takes about 30 seconds to post some kind of update, even if it's just "we're completely stopped and we hope to make some progress by X". Especially in light of announcements on other products.

I would like to see some kind of update at least once a week. That's not an unreasonable request. If there are parts of the software system that are broken, give us an opportunity to fix them or replace them. We are well into July now.


You're right, posting doesn't take long. But there are two reasons I don't mind the silence:

1. I have personally worked through breaks and lunch unintentionally. Don't you think it's possible that Cyan is working so hard that by the time they are done with work and have spent some time with their own personal lives they might accidently forget to post a small "nothing new to report" post?

2. The last update we got, Chogon said that they were waiting for a piece of vital coding that only one person could provide; what would happen if all we got for several weeks in a row was:

Week 1 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 2 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 3 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 4 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 5 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.

Then people would be complaining about that. Cyan will give us an update when there is something to tell.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:30 pm 
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Quote:
2. The last update we got, Chogon said that they were waiting for a piece of vital coding that only one person could provide; what would happen if all we got for several weeks in a row was:




From a Business point of view, taking into consideration the economy, the fact that Cyan is not gonna make any money on open source, not to mention the time and labor involved in the "secret code" needed for open source, I wonder is Cyan waiting for this Mystery person to do the work for free, or is Cyan willing to pay for something they aint gonna make any money on.

On one hand I can see Cyans point of view, why Should Cyan pay for something their gonna give away?
On the other hand I can also understand the Mystery persons point of view, Why should the Mystery person work for free if he can make money working somewhere else?

Mind you this is only my own personal crack pot theory, however it would explain the long wait and if true we have a much longer one ahead of us.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Quote:
2. The last update we got, Chogon said that they were waiting for a piece of vital coding that only one person could provide; what would happen if all we got for several weeks in a row was:

Week 1 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 2 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 3 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 4 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 5 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.

Then people would be complaining about that. Cyan will give us an update when there is something to tell.


Atleast people will complain about the lack of ability to continue work on Uru, rather than complain about the lack of knowing about the ability to continue work on Uru. I believe it will reduce the number of complainers.

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 Post subject: Re: ...sandwhich
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:18 pm 
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Frisky Badger wrote:

1. I have personally worked through breaks and lunch unintentionally. Don't you think it's possible that Cyan is working so hard that by the time they are done with work and have spent some time with their own personal lives they might accidently forget to post a small "nothing new to report" post?

2. The last update we got, Chogon said that they were waiting for a piece of vital coding that only one person could provide; what would happen if all we got for several weeks in a row was:

Week 1 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 2 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 3 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 4 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.
Week 5 - Still can't work on OSMO waiting for the code.

Then people would be complaining about that. Cyan will give us an update when there is something to tell.


1 Nobody works that hard because that would entail an awful lot of missed lunches.

2 One message per week recuring may prove repetative but none for months feels like a lack of respect.

There's a load of us out here want to work for free to maintain the Myst/Uru franchise, a lot of us have invested heavily in time study and paitience. I still believe Uru has a future and I want to continue my contribution to it. I have however reached a point where I have lost belief in something coming the other way. While I continue to wait I have stopped development till I feel that I can again believe in the promise that Cyan made.

In the past Cyan have been good to us I have bought every Myst/Uru title for the PC and if they were to drop something new on the market tomorrow I would be there like a shot.

If Cyan were to say we realy need some money to progress this I would be there. We sunk good money into Game Tap to back Cyan and have repeatedly said give us a way to pay and we will contribute so we are not asking anyone to work for free.

In a world hit by job insecurity the community has repeatedly said we will pay you to progress this, so what's the problem? It just doesn't add up. It almost looks like Cyan wants us to fade away. :(


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 Post subject: Re: ...sandwhich
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:26 pm 
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Frisky Badger wrote:
Except that the problem isn't that the machine is broken in this case. The machine works perfectly; it is just working on something that some in the community aren't necessarily interested in.


I agree the machine as a whole isn't broken, but the window with our "sandwhich" in it is. It takes seconds to make a small post with any kind of update on OSMO, even if its "can't work on it, waiting on code" I would much rather deal with that than not know at all whats going on. Its common courtesy, and with the fan base that Cyan has it would make sense to cater those few seconds every week to ensure that we don't feel cut off and ignored.

Frisky Badger wrote:
1. I have personally worked through breaks and lunch unintentionally. Don't you think it's possible that Cyan is working so hard that by the time they are done with work and have spent some time with their own personal lives they might accidently forget to post a small "nothing new to report" post?


I have done the same as well, but not for weeks or months at a time. a day or two, maybe a week, after that it is no longer accidently forgetting, its ignoring a task that needs to be done.

JKla wrote:
2 One message per week recuring may prove repetative but none for months feels like a lack of respect.


I fully agree, better to have a repetitive message(its still an update) than to be given nothing at all.


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 Post subject: Re: ...sandwhich
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:53 am 
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JKla wrote:
1 Nobody works that hard because that would entail an awful lot of missed lunches.

Dragonfetch wrote:
I have done the same as well, but not for weeks or months at a time. a day or two, maybe a week, after that it is no longer accidently forgetting, its ignoring a task that needs to be done.


Well, you two are luckier than me. I have been working through breaks almost every day for a year and a half, so I can completely understand why Cyan might forget to (or choose not to) post a tiny update when there is nothing to report.

Dragonfetch wrote:
I fully agree, better to have a repetitive message(its still an update) than to be given nothing at all.

You are entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion a broken record is more annoying than having no music.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:15 am 
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I think we need to have "Opinion Tags" that are "Spoiler Tags". If you don't like opinions don't read them. We could have "Opinion Free" forums too. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:56 am 
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A forum without opinions isn't a forum. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:57 am 
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JKla wrote:
Quote:
(Machine analogy story...)

PS The sandwich has been in the machine that long it's growing a beard.

>look

You are standing in front of a coin-operated sandwich dispenser. Most of the sandwiches appear quite tasty, but a few are, shall we say, looking a little blue. There is something stuck inside preventing the mechanism from working. It looks like someone tried to use the object to get a free sandwich. It appears you could free it with some effort. A heavy smudge can be seen on the glass. It looks like street grime with the outline of a dirty, desperate face.

>get cloth

Whoba, look at that, there's a ShamWow shammy cloth in your pocket! How did that get there?

>polish machine

You polish the machine. Big deal.

>polish machine

Well, we could do this all day if you'd like. Okay so it's a little cleaner. Probably more time wasted.

>polish machine

Persistent, aren't you? The machine enjoys your gentle strokes and begins to vibrate. The vibration grows stronger until the machine seems alive as it loudly clanks and dances to and fro. The racket is deafening but you enjoy the heavy metal rhythm. Sparks suddenly fly out everywhere and a torrent of water issues from the integrated complementary water nozzle meant for a small cup. A rainbow from the water spray appears in the sun behind you. It's beautiful.

A large umbrella falls out of the machine, getting your attention. Having dislodged the umbrella, the mechanism also drops a ham & bleu cheese (Ha! Get it?) sandwich at your feet. You are soaking wet. The umbrella clatters to a rest on the ground just behind your left foot. The handle appears broken. You hear someone behind you pick up the umbrella.

>duck

Do you mean the noun or the verb?

>turn around

The sun is behind the dark figure of a man. You squint. He picks up the dislodged umbrella and holds it rather grimly. Unbelievably, you think you recognize him. You begin to greet him but the words you try to mutter trail off as the heavy umbrella comes down upon your skull and all turns dark. "Bill, Shorah! Is that y..." You never hear him cry out with the response of a crazed, beaten man over your limp body, "My umbrella, man! Mine!"

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 Post subject: Re: ...sandwhich
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:47 am 
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JKla wrote:

In a world hit by job insecurity the community has repeatedly said we will pay you to progress this, so what's the problem? It just doesn't add up. It almost looks like Cyan wants us to fade away. :(


But we wont fade away :wink: we keep coming back :roll: and I think or hope that eventually our persistence will pay off

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:55 am 
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“No great achievement is possible without persistent work.”
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