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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Well...OK. Nevermind. :?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Well we all (ok maybe not all) watched the Rand interogation at the Mysterium. It looks like it's a plugin licence issue and It sounded like it was on Chogons todo list. Ok Rand implied he has had other things to do but have we been spun a line by Chogon or is he waiting to hear from a particular plugin licence holder.

That would fit with the alleged facts we have been fed. If so who owns the cage we want to rattle? :)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:11 am 
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JKla wrote:
Well we all (ok maybe not all) watched the Rand interogation at the Mysterium. It looks like it's a plugin licence issue and It sounded like it was on Chogons todo list. Ok Rand implied he has had other things to do but have we been spun a line by Chogon or is he waiting to hear from a particular plugin licence holder.

That would fit with the alleged facts we have been fed. If so who owns the cage we want to rattle? :)


First; for those of you who couldn't go to Mysterium (like myself) there's a video of Rand's speech on Youtube; you can barely make out the questions and it's a little easier hearing Rand's responses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgV_8IvuXds


And second, agreed JKla! I guess if it's licensing issues it's going to take a while before we get to go Open Source.

On another note, Rand also said he didn't want Uru to be like Second Life. I completely agree, since there's way more to do in second life that doesn't focus entirely on the Myst series like Uru does.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:17 am 
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I think it was stated that they were waiting on a guy who was leading this, and was the only one who could make some vital code additions, but then he got a job or something and now he's busy.

Quote:
Rand: ...ah, I'll make a story out of this...we're chugging down the open source path because we don't really have anything else to do, and we're hoping for things to do because we've laid off people we don't have any income and we need kind of money and then this other deal came in where people said well hey, we'd kind of like you to use your engine and do this stuff for us, and suddenly Mark DeForest who was the engineer of the Open Source Train, choo choo -[makes pulling whistle cord motion], suddenly got involved in other things and we have our plans laid of what we need to do, and some of it is just technical, we'll pull certain things out that are, that we’ve licensed that we can't just let the public use and we have to, we have plug ins that we have to be careful with letting out, and we’ve got a plan about how to do it but suddenly Mark DeForest was engaged in money-bringing-in-work so that took priority...


tl;dr/I don't get it: Mark DeForest hasn't been working on the open source project ever since Cyan became involved with Creative Kingdoms, because the cyan team has to eat.

I can't be the only one who thought of this... it's the Myst forums! Solve a puzzle, people!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:29 am 
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I keep returning to the thing where Cyan have people laid off and an army of fans out here are prepared to throw money into any hat if neccessary to get this project sorted.

Give one of your laid off guys a job sorting the open source tell him/her they are self /funded i.e. they are free to raise their wages from the community.

This way the fans are happy Cyan has control and not only do Cyan get to eat but somebody who would otherwise be laid off gets to do something usefull.

Not to mention gains the undying gratatude of all the Uru fans out in cyberspace.

Sorry if I sound troubled but doing joined up thinking for others leaves me a little fractious. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:44 pm 
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Can It be that such a solution would have to be considered in a very careful way to understand the legal implications, the promises involved. Well that takes time and effort, and in the end fans may not pay up, the job not get done, and the blame will go to Cyan for breaking a promise.
Look at how everything gets twisted right now. One moment there are cries of "please some news, something in blue please. Just to keep the spirits up, you know!" Them some blue stuff followed by 3 pages of complaining and really weird interpretations. Then complaining again based on the weird interpretations.
I'm allready laughing out loud at the possible respons that may explode here if CW actually proposed to have fans pay for (a maybe production of) something Cyan would still own, and may not in the end choose to deliver for whatever reasons.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:47 pm 
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JKla wrote:
Quote:
Given the way we are beating at the machine to get at the sandwich ranting tearfully at the Military Police wouldn’t it be nice for the NAAFI manager (CYAN) to post that message on the machine to let us know when we may be able to access the sandwich.


PS The sandwich has been in the machine that long it's growing a beard.

If we wait any longer it's going to release itself.

Which is going to happen first - the Open Source release, or the Iotians win a game of Fizzbin?

JKla wrote:
I keep returning to the thing where Cyan have people laid off and an army of fans out here are prepared to throw money into any hat if neccessary to get this project sorted.

I keep returning to the thing where virtually any component Cyan is apparently working on could be replaced by open source work. Cyan apparently keep returning to the idea of keeping tight control over the thing (I thought they already made that decision), which takes us back to the point that most of us have already bought hard copies of most of the game data via Complete Chronicles or the two original boxed releases.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:36 pm 
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Here's the entire text of what Rand Miller said, such as it is. I got this from what CrisGer posted in the forum - the text.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Rand: We ah, we, lets see here, We're rolling down the, ah, I'll make a story out of this...we'rechugging down the open source path because we don't really have anything else to do, and we're hoping for things to do because we've laid off people we don't have any income and we need kind of money and then this other deal came in where people said well hey, we'd kind of like you to use your engine and do this stuff for us, and suddenly Mark DeForest who was the engineer of the Open Source Train, choo choo -[makes pulling whistle cord motion], suddenly got involved in other things and we have our plans laid of what we need to do, and some of it is just technical, we'll pull certain things out that are, that we’ve licensed that we can't just let the public use and we have to, we have plug ins that we have to be careful with letting out, and we’ve got a plan about how to do it but suddenly Mark DeForest was engaged in money-bringing-in-work so that took priority, so we still have no other plans other than to do Open Source and like to move it out there, this time we are thinking we want to do
something a little different... boy its been a while since we did all of this, ..but it’s… we’d like to run the server, or run servers, and, but still have Open Source where people are able to build stuff and adjust stuff but We'd be more the keeper of it. mm. and see where that goes, cause it seemed like that might be a cool way to do it that way, we'd keep things going but its still passing thru a filter, m, but anyway that’s the plans, and as soon as really we run out of work we will get back on that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I'm getting this right (Rand Miller is unclear, very disappointing) - it seems to me that they were going to do open source, but they want to run the servers, and control what gets released. That doesn't make sense to me. Once you release it, you can't control what people run. What's to stop anyone from running their own server. I'm not in favor of Cyan running Uru. I think Cyan has shown us they can't do it. Look, they can't get open source going - what's makes me think that they could commit to running a server, releasing things on a timely fashion, without a publisher being involved?

It also looks like, from the last sentence, that, per what Rand Miller said, they won't do anything with open source Uru until they have no work. Rand also said (very interesting) that they were doing open source Uru because they didn't have anything else to do. Is that right, wasn't it supposed to be a gift to the fans so their legacy could live on? It is unclear if Rand is saying something official or just talking hopes and dreams.

I'm annoyed. I'm sure Rand knew he's be asked about it, and you think he could have come up with a a better answer, something more articulate, something easier to understand. I realize that was a lot of fan fondness going around at Mysterium, but I would have liked it if someone at Cyan would have realized that some of us want something that is clear, even if the answer is "no". If you aren't going to do it, update mystonline to say you aren't going to do it, and be done with it. Enough of this "yes, not now, maybe someday, plans have changed" thing.

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Last edited by mszv on Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:45 pm 
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mszv, Cyan could still control the main (golden) branch and the repository. There has to be a source server as well (think file server, I suppose).

We always have to be aware of the distinction between authentication, file / data and game when talking about servers.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:03 pm 
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Right. And it was Rand, the CEO, the visioneer with the concepts and not the details, who was there. It was not Chogon, the CTO, the engineer, who was there with the details of implementation which come at the end of all internal discussion and decisions - the details which Chogon has mentioned are to come.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:22 pm 
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Great. So when they run out of work, they'll get back on it. That is both funny and sad. Now I want Magiquest to succeed AND end quickly at the same time.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:45 pm 
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Calam wrote:
Great. So when they run out of work, they'll get back on it. That is both funny and sad. Now I want Magiquest to succeed AND end quickly at the same time.

How about we wish for it to succeed on such a grand scale that Cyan can afford to hire more people and do both MQ & & Uru? :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:51 pm 
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You know, I couldn't make this stuff up - it's there in the transcript. I'm not reading anything into it - it's what Rand Miller said.

"we're chugging down the open source path because we don't really have anything else to do"
"as soon as really we run out of work we will get back on that"

So, if Rand misspoke - then I think that Rand should say so. Everyone says things that aren't exactly what they mean. The thing to do is to correct what you said, publically.

If this is correct, then as long as people are paying Cyan to do stuff, they won't do anything with Uru. They can do that, of course, it's their game, but it does put a different spin on waiting patiently, doesn't it?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:49 am 
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I go along with Tai'lahr and wish Cyan much success. That could work.

I also fear mszv has a point. I think MQO and present work will further delay MOOS. I can hope not.

Following along in the transcript and listening to the video gives one about the best feel for what is going on one can get short of having been there. The video is hard to understand, bad acoustics. Reading just the transcript leaves out too much of the emotion and body language (as good as they were to add in some of the emotive info).

Contradicting Rand's words, assigning different meanings to the simple words and running off on speculation just makes no sense to me. I can see coming away with the idea Rand would prefer to do something else, other than open source. But he seems to realize there is not much of any other choice. While he may want to keep options open and possibly take a turn if possible, for now he is headed down the open source path and is clear about it. Not racing down it... but he seems to be purposefully moving down that path.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:30 am 
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From mszv, quoting Rand:

"we're chugging down the open source path because we don't really have anything else to do"
"as soon as really we run out of work we will get back on that"

The second part of that quote was clearly meant to lighten the mood, a joke pointing out the Catch-22 aspect of the open source project. And it did, check the transcript for the

[Audience laughter]

Cyan is in a tough spot, but I didn't hear anything there that sounded like they were intentionally delaying releasing the material they promised.

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