Cyan has been saying they're going to "open source" Uru. What does this really mean? (What degree of free au libre is this going to be?) Does this refer to the client or the server or both? Does this include the graphical and audio elements?

Will we be allowed to implement Ages from the other Myst games into Uru if we want, as the community has already done in Second Life? It's not as if we'd be competing with realMyst.

Will Open Uru become sufficiently separated from Cyan Worlds that we'll be able to do fun, "fair use" things with famous characters and images and so forth without getting Cyan in legal trouble? I'm thinking specifically of the experiences of moddable games in other genres like Quake. You might not like the idea of Superman, Yoda and Duke Nukem running around in Uru, but whether you like what people do with the technology isn't the point - the point is that it's better when people get to do what they want.

You might not like the idea of Superman, Yoda and Duke Nukem running around in Uru, but whether you like what people do with the technology isn't the point - the point is that it's better when people get to do what they want.

Cyan has been saying they're going to "open source" Uru. What does this really mean? (What degree of free au libre is this going to be?) Does this refer to the client or the server or both? Does this include the graphical and audio elements?

Will we be allowed to implement Ages from the other Myst games into Uru if we want, as the community has already done in Second Life? It's not as if we'd be competing with realMyst.

Will Open Uru become sufficiently separated from Cyan Worlds that we'll be able to do fun, "fair use" things with famous characters and images and so forth without getting Cyan in legal trouble? I'm thinking specifically of the experiences of moddable games in other genres like Quake. You might not like the idea of Superman, Yoda and Duke Nukem running around in Uru, but whether you like what people do with the technology isn't the point - the point is that it's better when people get to do what they want.

I strongly disagree, as I believe that what Cyan is handing us is a game that we're supposed to continue and build upon (continuing the experience that they have given us all these years), not tear down and break apart. In my opinion, this is a very different case than all the other game modding examples out there. I'm not trying to take away 'what people want', but Uru provides a certain experience (which, presumably, we all want, since we're here) and the kind of 'anything goes' content that is suggested simply doesn't fit in that experience, at least that's how I feel. There are other places where people who want that experience can go to get it.

For some examples of the kind of modifications and additions that I personally think open source Uru should be about, check here and here.

The nature of open source is that people will likely end up making their own shards and probably someone will be weird enough to put Yoda into the cavern. As it appears right now though, the Cyan-run and/or Cyan-approved Shards will almost certainly reject all such things.

Many of the mods done by the Doom/Quake community involving other IP's (Mortal Kombat music, Simpsons graphics etc.) are also infringing on copyright as the uses certainly do NOT qualify as fair use, but the holders have not taken action. It should be noted however that those communities have come to have serious criticisms against such mods, and many new mods of the sort have faded into obscurity because of it.

I believe you can get a good idea of what will or will not be allowed in open-source Uru by taking a look at RAWA's Guidelines for Official Story/Age Creation.

Unless they're going to continue to focus on crappy Myst ports or are going to be doing items 1 and 2, I don't see how implementing ages from those games into Uru by fans will hurt their business in any way. Particularly when the puzzles don't work.

FYI: Screwing around with Myst stuff isn't anything new. Remember Pyst and the Myst map for Bungie's Marathon?

Chances are that we will not be able to re-create ages from other Myst games, as that would fit into the territory of messing with Cyan's content and story, which is a big no-no. The recreations in Second Life and other virtual world programs are infringing upon Cyan's property, and are highly illegal, though Cyan hasn't had the opportunity to take action against them, if they even desire to do so (which we do not know one way or another).

I'm not talking about what makes business sense for Cyan, so much as copyright law, and a copyright holder's obligation to protect their property. Cyan will not lightly decide that the content of their games is of no value to them, and therefore they have to challenge blatant infringement--it's just how U.S. copyright law works.

Even for all the years that John Carmack has been releasing the source code for the id Software games, that public release has never included the game content. There's lots of precedent for open sourcing a game but keeping your content locked down.

U.S. copyright law doesn't work, as it's goal (according to the Constitution) has nothing to do with "a copyright holder's obligation to protect their property" (I have no idea where you are getting this philosophy from but I think it's credentials are dubious at best, despite my immense respect for the notion of private property) but is for "promoting the progress of science and the useful arts." That is the only valid reason for giving authors and inventors these exclusive rights, and if our courts had an ounce of sanity or respect for the Constitution, they'd require every claim of infringement to be based on an argument that stems from how the infringement hinders this progress.

Yes, but that's because he's still trying to sell the game content. Cyan isn't trying to sell 3D versions of their older games, only 2D versions.

And speaking of Carmack's business strategy, why not build a little program that checks whether you own the original Myst or Riven before it'll let you onto those areas of Uru? Scan the CD or DVD and it will let you on. That's how modding worked for a while before the open sourcing of the id Software games. You had to have the original commercial DooM wad in order to play any un-specifically-licensed total conversions.

As it happens I agree that U.S. Copyright law has become distorted and indeed totally preempted by corporate interests (thanks, Disney). But I doubt we'll make any progress on overhauling U.S. Copyright law during the MOUL open source process, we have to deal with what is.


You don't think Cyan would like to do RealMyst on iPhone 12? I think Cyan would like to keep the option of selling their games if the opportunity arises--Myst iPhone was so easily doable (comparatively) because it's already been through ports and rerenders.


But how does that continue to work once the open source arrives, and anyone who wants can simply comment out that part of the code?

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As to Cyan's business model ... let's face it. All their recent pre-rendered Myst ports have been crappy compared to realMyst - even the ones that include pre-rendered stills of Rime.

Screwing around with Myst stuff isn't anything new. Remember Pyst and the Myst map for Bungie's Marathon?

Yes and no… some of the things in SL have a FCAL.

U.S. copyright law doesn't work

Yes, but that's because he's still trying to sell the game content. Cyan isn't trying to sell 3D versions of their older games, only 2D versions.

1. By going open source, they are enabling "anything goes" from a technical perspective. People are going to do stuff like this anyway, the only question is whether Cyan wants to make them criminals or not.

2. Most players who don't own the games won't know how to build the Uru client from source. It would be much easier to pirate the original games (Which happens anyway, this wouldn't change that) and run the official client than to take it out of the official client.

3. If the main branches of the Uru viewer have it and Cyan works together with the community to boycott viewers that don't, (if the license says so, they'd be illegal anyway) it would effectively make those versions that don't have it invisible to most people.

4. By putting this into the main branch of the Uru viewer (and possibly specifying the requirement of each player owning Myst or Riven or Exiled to access fan created Ages based on those games in the license) it would provide a way to legitimately do this, rather than making all ways of doing it illegitimate.