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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:21 pm 
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Ok, so in a nutshell, they lied about releasing myst opensource.

A. They are only releasing some undefined part, probably only the tools for creating ages and some mechanism for getting them into the correct MOUL formats and

B. They are not going to even to that before I collect social security.

Don't delude yourselves folks, this is never gonna happen.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:07 pm 
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Who told you that? you say they lied, and as a proof you say "because it hasn't happend yet" or "because I said so". They told us several times they need to keep the company up. They can't work on Uru full time, and there is work to be done.

And by the way, you may not know that, but you can make ages right now! yes, that's true. So I suppose when Cyan said they are releasing the source, they meant that they are releasing the source (including several plugins). They aren't going to release age-making tools, when they already exist.

If you have any serious proof, bring it on. But until than, you don't have one, don't delude yourself.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:48 pm 
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No, I don't offer proof that it hasn't happened yet. Cyan's spokesman said so and they are involved in building a different game.

He explicitly said they are not releasing the server code. One doesn't actually need the client code. So the only part of MOUL OS of any real interest is the server code, WHICH THEY INTEND TO KEEP.

So that leaves OS for the client only. So they lied.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:51 pm 
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jmdoggett wrote:
He explicitly said they are not releasing the server code.

Where?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:53 pm 
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...and which spokes person?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Just a short word of caution, jmdoggett. Interpretations are funny things. They often reveal what we wish to see and hear, not always what's true. Plus, things can change from the intended path without making where you have been a lie and where you are going any less true. I suspect whatever you use as your source, and I think it is obviously the Mysterium transcript, there will be plenty of other ways to interpret an informal conversation until open source really does happen.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:47 pm 
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stanhin wrote:
Plowing through that mountainous transcript was not easy at all. :)

Here is the near near-gibberish that seems to constitute the relevant (and ultimately depressing) part:

Rand: We ah, we, lets see here, We're rolling down the, ah, I'll make a story out of this...we're chugging down the open source path because we don't really have anything else to do, and we're hoping for things to do because we've laid off people we don't have any income and we need kind of money and then this other deal came in where people said well hey, we'd kind of like you to use your engine and do this stuff for us, and suddenly Mark DeForest who was the engineer of the Open Source Train, choo choo -[makes pulling whistle cord motion], suddenly got involved in other things and we have our plans laid of what we need to do, and some of it is just technical, we'll pull certain things out that are, that we’ve licensed that we can't just let the public use and we have to, we have plug ins that we have to be careful with letting out, and we’ve got a plan about how to do it but suddenly Mark DeForest was engaged in money-bringing-in-work so that took priority, so we still have no other plans other than to do Open Source and like to move it out there, this time we are thinking we want to do
something a little different... boy its been a while since we did all of this, ..but it’s… we’d like to run the server, or run servers, and, but still have Open Source where people are able to build stuff and adjust stuff but We'd be more the keeper of it. mm. and see where that goes, cause it seemed like that might be a cool way to do it that way, we'd keep things going but its still passing thru a filter, m, but anyway that’s the plans, and as soon as really we run out of work we will get back on that.

[Audience laughter]

01:05:56: Questioner: A followup question. Are you planning on releasing the server code and the engine code separately so you could just run URU and (plug) another engine into it, or does it have to be together?

[Crowd murmuring]

Rand: I think it is a fit together kind of thing, and some of that is, we, I mean, OK so, we planned for the future we’ve opened it up where, all of this is this weird parallel with the D'ni universe (Dunney) where we want whoever wants to be a write to be a writer, and , at the same time there is like these you know Master Writers who we like to think of ourselves as, who potentially like could make new books that we could add in that might be income producing but keeping it all together
and letting you guys write stuff that could be fun to experiment with and potential for us to stick a book in and it would be like, oh, cool, that continues the story ...it seems like a cool way to do that, so, I think we are planning on keeping things tightly tied together.



I enlarged d the relevant sections of the transcript. This is not open source. They plan to keep the servers and "filter" anything we make. Its as plain as the nose on your face.

The video and transcript are available above.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:01 pm 
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Does it say that there will be only one server?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:10 pm 
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There are three server types - authentication, file and game. You can't tell from that quote which server they are talking about.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:11 pm 
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Yeah, it does say that. What do YOU think it means when they say they will be the keepers of "it" in the same sentence as "servers"? Also Rand said that what they wanted was for us to be creating content which they want to filter.

If they intended otherwise, when pressed specifically on the server question he could have quite simply said: "yes". But instead he dissembled and gave us to doubletalk about creating content for them. Did you actually even read the transcript?

Look, I am not interpreting ANYTHING or trying to troll here. I've been a software developer for very long time and I know corpspeak inside out. They are not releasing the server code.

Please, the generic question asked by the audience covered all the back end code and Rand's answer clearly says they are keeping it. otherwise how could they FILTER our content?


Last edited by jmdoggett on Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:13 pm 
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Cyan wrote:
Cyan Worlds, Inc. has agreed to put the program code sources for Myst Online: Uru Live into open source. The code sources that will be included are the code for the client, all the servers and tools. With the source to the client and the servers, fans should be able to set up and run Myst Online: Uru Live and bring Uru community back online.


This is still the official line until the tab is updated.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:18 pm 
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Rand's statements supersede the website, which seems to be lagging their actual intentions. They could yank out the problematic parts of everything TODAY and post it, allowing us to deal with the issues how best we may.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:21 pm 
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Running servers is not the same thing as keeping the code. Nor can you assume that theirs will be the only servers. If they run servers, they can control what goes on them. I'm sure they'd like to offer something directly from Cyan Worlds if they can.

The "keeper" of the code is the one with commit rights to the main trunk of an open source project. That's not to say there won't be other forks. But Cyan's would be the "official" version.

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Last edited by JWPlatt on Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:22 pm 
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jmdoggett wrote:
Yeah, it does say that. What do YOU think it means when they say they will be the keepers of "it" in the same sentence as "servers"? Also Rand said that what they wanted was for us to be creating content which they want to filter.

If they intended otherwise, when pressed specifically on the server question he could have quite simply said: "yes". But instead he dissembled and gave us to doubletalk about creating content for them. Did you actually even read the transcript?

Look, I am not interpreting ANYTHING or trying to troll here. I've been a software developer for very long time and I know corpspeak inside out. They are not releasing the server code.

Please, the generic question asked by the audience covered all the back end code and Rand's answer clearly says they are keeping it. otherwise how could they FILTER our content?

That is quite simple. They run an SVN/Hg/GIT/CVS/ repository, that is open (read-only) to the public, with an included issue tracker. Bugs, improvements, patches and new features can be made by anyone to their local copy, and diffs/patches are posted to the issue tracker, at which point a Cyantist takes a look and decides if they want that in the "Official" codebase or not. You know, the way MythTV, XBMC, the Linux Kernel, Mozilla/Firefox, and pretty much every other open-source project out there does it.

That satisfies the requirements both for "Open Source", "Keeping it", and "Filtering", all at once. It also implies that they will be running a "Game server" of their own, open to anyone to play on, probably running from the standard codebase in SVN, as an "Official" server.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:56 pm 
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I think Rand was referring to the idea the idea of one day Cyan returning to Uru in the form of running an official cyan shard in addition to letting other people run shards if they want. Cyan did this for a while with D'mala during Until Uru. I should also preface this by saying Rand is an optimist. When he uses the word "want," what he is really saying is, "if everything goes the way I wish it would."

I know that this isn't the first time this idea has been talked about but for the life of me I can't remember where I heard that. If anyone with a better memory can think of it, let me know.

To be honest, I wouldn't turn my nose up at a Cyan run shard as that's the first step toward new cyan-created content. But in the end weather it's through Cyan or through the community, I just want to get back to the cavern.

The future is an uncertain thing and everything could change tomorrow. Nothing is certain.

EDIT: Yikes, a lot of responses all at the same time.

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Last edited by greendragoon on Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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