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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:11 pm 
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As I see it, there is a lot of confusion and fighting over people's opinions on how OSUL should be run. Perhaps if we had a place to lay out our ideas without fear of attack, we could move on more unified.

Here are the rules for this topic.

You have only one line of "normal" sized text to express your opinion on each point.

You may not attack or degrade a person for their views. You may not argue over opinions.


Please be civil, kind, and rational.

Cleft vs. Relto: Single Plr Cleft but w/ a quick way to get Relto for those who want a shortcut. Still have all the puzzles up.

Guilds/Cyan/Dictator/OpenUru/etc.: Nonpartisan. I trust the community and the dedicated groups to be the best they can.

SL/WoW/etc.:Uru is very different game. When immersion/Uruness not at risk, adaptions could be made.

Shards: Seems inevitable, so keep them few and sane. Testing, bizarre things, theatrics, should all get shards. One Log-in.

Canon: Let's not kill it. No cheesy sci-fi recycled storylines. Leave room for return of Cyan in whole or part.

the KI:It's not YouTube or a magical flying device, but make it work fine and stay Mysterious. I don't care about the shape, although the "big KI" looks nice.

Conflict: Sides give rewards, and let people choose as/when/to what degree they want. Keep Relto - no logical alternative. DRC or so can grudgingly accept.

The tunnels et all: There are a bunch of legal, canon, etc. issues. Give it time, but they'd be cool. Perhaps be considering the Myst Movie as well.

Anarchy vs. Tyranny: It's Open Source, we don't have to worry so much about tyranny. Be wary of where your freedom takes you.

(oh yeah, you can also suggest new points to discuss)


Last edited by Gehn, lord of ages on Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:02 pm 
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Cleft vs. Relto: begin in personal desert, a small optional public town to go to, the cleft is personal and so are the tunnels.

Guilds/Cyan/Dictator/OpenUru/etc.: no ruler. Though I would like to see some kind of a shard agreement or normal behavior of shards, to keep stuff united.

SL/WoW/etc.: as long as the spirit stays, I would like to see something which keeps explorers explore, it's an MMO, after all. Some sort of "interesting experiences" which the player collects. A story screen (your story) to develop... something.

Shards: there should be few testing shards or "nonsense" shards. The most, IMO, should be uncrazy. Different from each other, but not crazy. And there need to be a way to keep these shards united...

Canon: keep it, don't delete it or continue the official storyline. You are welcomed to create your own story, of course.

the KI: update to choru style KI, just with a few upgrades. Close down the gahreesen machine, get a KI 1) from the table at the cleft, no machine, just put on your hand or 2) from machine in the descent.

Conflict: be able to choose DRC vs.yeesha. Each side get it's own features (one line? can't describe in that). Relto for urus, small normal linking book to 'hood for autherized.

The tunnels et all: like, tunnels to d'ni? this, if we make it, should be a combined project, cyan and players. It should be top quality (eve if it takes few years) ad we should be guided by cyan (it's their creation, after all).

Anarchy vs. Tyranny: we don't need a king as much as we don't need flying avatars.

Fans ages: normally, I would say "accept fans ages only when at high quality" but it's open source, so there you go. Still, no crazy ages.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:08 pm 
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Yes, the tunnels mean the tunnels to D'ni (from the Cleft area).

I'm sorry, stranger, but your post goes over the one line limit for multiple points. I will have to ask you to condense your ideas or wording.

Fan Ages: Let's make quality stuff and Uru type stuff - no lala lands, definitely no copyright infringement


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 Post subject: Re: Your Opinions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:24 pm 
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This topic: Should be moved to the Open Source Myst Online General forum with a better title. ;)


Cleft vs. Relto: Alahmnat and Tweek combine talents and implement this project with others to a creative conclusion.

Guilds/Cyan/Dictator/OpenUru/etc.: Freedom to choose. I like the OpenURU.org project resource idea. ;)

SL/WoW/etc.: Family, non-violent, visual and challenging with things to do.

Shards: Freedom of choice. Open source realities will drive this model.

Canon: Canon is what Cyan does on an official shard. All else is not canon.

the KI: Submit your bugs and ideas to the open source developers. Let them choose priorities.

Conflict: No Manufactured Divisions. Integrate story with real gameplay, or don't bother.

The tunnels et all: See "Cleft vs. Relto".

Anarchy vs. Tyranny: Neither.

Fans ages: Freedom to produce; freedom to choose. Quality is more likely to succeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Your Opinions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Gehn, lord of ages wrote:
You may not attack or degrade a person for their views. You may not argue over opinions.[/b]

Please be civil, kind, and rational.



As long as I know these are still the forum rules so if people follow them they should be no problem ;)

Moving the subject to the Open source forum...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:21 pm 
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Why don't you just wait and see what Cyan will release under which conditions and take it from there. All these heated discussions will be worthless, as they are not based on facts but speculation. Just let Cyan release something first.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:20 am 
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elektrolott wrote:
Why don't you just wait and see what Cyan will release under which conditions and take it from there. All these heated discussions will be worthless, as they are not based on facts but speculation. Just let Cyan release something first.

Psychologically, the community feels the need to talk about something. They therefore speculate and prepare themselves for the release. In this rush of discussion, there is a lot of discord and confusion, partly based on the fact that nobody knows really what the other people's opinions are. This topic is a place to discuss them calmly - because there will be no retorts or attacks and people don't have to start out on the defensive.

oh, another thing to add.
The out-of-game interface: Tweek's plan, preferably the dark version


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:31 am 
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Cleft vs. Relto: Cleft was fun but if relto had the same style opening sequence it would be better.

Guilds/Cyan/Dictator/OpenUru/etc.: None of the above Shard Owner/Dictators along side Cyan. Everyone else is just invited to play.

SL/WoW/etc.: Family all the way, I see enough stuff that makes me want to burn my eye's out used as sprays in other games.

Shards: Anyone with the resources can have one, poo on them if they don't want to play with friends however. :lol:

Canon: Canon is Cyan's stuff. All else if someone ever does a large multiarc decade sweeping story is Fan Canon. :P

the KI: Burn it! :lol: In lower pop Shards it's issues will not be so obvious, so while bad it allows coders to carefully take their time and fix it.

Conflict: What JW said. No more MO:UL speeches of wonderful things happening just out of sight stage left.

The tunnels et all: Can't till EoA rights are regained by Cyan or someone makes a very different set of tunnels. Sorry.

Anarchy vs. Tyranny: A properly organized mess can be mistaken for the first, and only the people playing at CS will suspect the latter if it's done right. :lol:

Fans ages: Bad Ages will have a short shelf life. ;) Good Ages will be what you keep tripping over and pester your home shard to import.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Let's do a "the Giver"esque announcement

You have only one line of "normal" sized text to express your opinion on each point. This keeps it at a level playing field.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:26 pm 
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I want to see an Uru where there isn't so much argument over how things should be done, and people quit making it out to be such a huge problem. Independent shard owners and developers will have the power to choose how things work on their shard. The existence of multiple shards will be important because there will be some disagreement. People don't like getting their toes stepped on; give them some space to do as they wish.

I think after a while that the game has been running, the best ways to do things will become more clear and most of the community will gather on just a few shards that they like, while a few others will continue to exist for more radical ideas.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:39 pm 
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Cleft vs. Relto: Cleft always struck me as a nightmare for new players because of its complicated controls in crammed space and I'd prefer tunnel access.

Guilds/Cyan/Dictator/OpenUru/etc.: Would be nice to have a "canon" shard with QA, but Cyan should not grant special privileges to this shard, it will have to prove its status by reasonable and fair decisions.

SL/WoW/etc.:Open architecture with clients that suit every control preference.

Shards: Use a central "registration" server for connecting shards. Different list sorting options like "# population, ping time, language preference" to find a suitable shard. Protocol version numbers to exclude incompatible servers with "protocol extensions".

Canon: Make the guild QA good so using approved ages is attractive for shard owners.

the KI Some ages will require special KI features, so there needs to be a standard for presenting certain KI elements. Additional "skins" may be used to decorate the KI.

Conflict: As long as choosing a "side" doesn't exclude experiencing content (but T-shirts are ok) that is fine for me. But don't make it PvP!

The tunnels et all There is enough existing material from Myst V to demonstrate the direction in which they should be developed. The approval process would be much harder though.

Anarchy vs. Tyranny: That's what shards are for.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:45 pm 
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(It's tough to tell what's a line and what's not, as line-wrap vs screen-size vs formatting inserts changes stuff. I figure a few lines at most and we avoid the problem, but keep true to the idea of quick points)

Cleft vs. Relto: Both, though we'll likely see shards running the classic MOUL system, and ones with a descent system. And eventually, no Relto at all.

Guilds/Cyan/Dictator/OpenUru/etc.: You're welcome to try, but at this point (like before) people can say "You're dictator? That's nice" and do what they were doing anyways.

SL/WoW/etc.: Uru is Uru. Good ideas not game-related can transfer (like interface or network design tips) but not all-out content.

Shards: Yes please! :D

Canon: Cyan is behind Canon, but I think Fanon should exist and expand. Maybe it'll unify, but I doubt it. That's ok, so long as you can keep track somehow.

The KI: NEEDS CHANGE. No, really. It failed in MOUL. The 'minimalist' idea is nice, but don't break functionality to hold that. Open it up so people can extend it freely via some sort of plugins/external files.

Conflict: Age designers will be the ones doing a lot of this, and if they want to go for your setup plot or not it's their choice. This will be per-shard though, like other stuff.

The tunnels et all: Sure. I'd like to see them.. whenever someone does. We'll see when people start making ages like that, however.

Anarchy vs. Tyranny: Tyranny of choice, baby! You can't expect to be able to lock it down and keep control on all of it, unless it isn't open source. There's no way to stop some group from forming their own shard and playing on it instead. Set up resources and "Thou may" locations to offer and let people centralize on their own, instead of trying to force it with "thou shalt not" proclamations and having everyone just ignore you.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:49 pm 
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Cleft vs. Relto: Cleft.

Guilds/Cyan/Dictator/OpenUru/etc.: Everyone can do what they feel is right.

SL/WoW/etc.: Not really relevant IMO, because people will play on the shards they like anyway.

Shards: As many as necessary. No limits. Also see previous answer.

Canon: If someone wants a sci-fi shard, so be it. There will be (canon) IC shards anyway.

The KI: Could use some user interface improvements.

Conflict: I like the idea of picking sides. There's nothing like a GOOD FIGHT!!

The tunnels et all: I am really looking forward to this.

Anarchy vs. Tyranny: People do what they want. Also see previous answers.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:12 pm 
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Cleft vs. Relto: Either or. ;)

Guilds/Cyan/Dictator/OpenUru/etc.: All - each in their own area.

SL/WoW/etc.: None.

Shards: Yep - as many as we want/need.

Canon: Yep - not enforced though.

The KI: Redesigned, prefereably - python, GUI et al.

Conflict: Since when has Uru and Myst been based around conflict - no this game is about the mind and strategy - if we resort to this, then long gone will be the days when we can play Myst for the adventure, exploration on the joy of solving the puzzles. Too much of this in the world today anyways, no conflict for me IMO.

The tunnels et al: Yes, this'd be great - it'd require much user expansion and months of modelling with or without intervention from Cyan but I'd love to see it done and would lend a hand if I could - also, it would complete the DIRT experience

Anarchy vs. Tyranny: Preferably neither.

My added sentiment is this - MORE/MOOSE/OSMOUL or whatever you want to call this next incarnation should not be about changing everything we already have, but preserving the spririt of the community and the Myst series in the game - the legacy of the franchise has been handed over to us and it's our opportunity to craft it while Cyan can't - we need to encourage what makes Myst and Uru what it is - the puzzles and the excitement of finding the next door or the next journey or the next part of the adventure. The weaving of the community into the story can now be done through many different shards by many different people but if we hold together the fabric of Uru in whatever form we choose and we do so sensibly with the history of the game in mind, then one day we can hand back a tapestry of achievement to Cyan and show that they imbued their trust in us correctly and that we succeeded with this endeavour and can continue the history of the game, community and company. We can work together to make Myst and Uru online better.

TG

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:40 pm 
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Cleft/Relto: I like the Cleft opening but having greeters or alone/together choice for new players is important.
SL/Wow/…: Better AV’s, chat, clothes, etc. Keeping Uru style is important. Dragons are out.
Shards: Adding all shards chat channel w/ability to mute a shard or all. Good for a help channel.
Canon: Cyan=existing canon. Extended canon seems likely and gives players the ability to add to the story.
KI: Better chat. Better friends and groups control and direct player to player chat.
Anarchy/Tyranny: If server operation is a significant cost, Tyranny becomes a real concern.

New Players: Needed. Changes like ‘Where to Begin Game’ should fit the current MMO gamer expectations.

Things to do: Puzzles & exploring demand new content. Other activities could reduce demand.

New features: Picture save to disk in plain jpg format to folder of choice. In-game links to web pages.

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