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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:13 am 
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Relto is what Yeesha gives you in exchange for... well... this is a no-spoiler forum, so I'll leave it at that.

You can take it or leave it. She tells you to make a home, but there's nothing saying your home has to be Relto. You could make Teledahn your home, if you wanted, or (soon) you could write your own age to be your home. (This seems to be more of a roleplaying issue than anything else.)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:22 am 
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Dachannien wrote:
Relto is what Yeesha gives you in exchange for... well... this is a no-spoiler forum, so I'll leave it at that.

You can take it or leave it. She tells you to make a home, but there's nothing saying your home has to be Relto. You could make Teledahn your home, if you wanted, or (soon) you could write your own age to be your home. (This seems to be more of a roleplaying issue than anything else.)


There a many personal ages which can only be accessed from Relto. I imagine the OP wants the "amenities of home" without actually having to link to Relto.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:19 am 
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Sensei wrote:
aloys wrote:
It's been discussed a lot, and the problem with this idea is the Relto book. In an IC sense we can't write books that works like this one -- books that link with you. Only Yeesha knows how to do that. Of course one could say that some explorers studied the book and managed to replicate the system. But personally, I would find that hard to believe.
Of course, OOC it would be easy to do once we get the source.

Look, if we're really going to be technical here... couldn't you just scratch out the ink (that's what people did before erasers, there's a special knife for it) and replace all the details that make relto what is it geologically, therefore giving you a 'hijacked' linking book that acts with unique yeesha properties?

Similarly, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from copying a book word for word.

No, except for one thing: we have absolutely no IC idea of how the Book works, we have no idea if just erasing the ink would work. And as for the Relto Book specifically for all we know it could be physically different from regular Books. In which case simply copying its text in another Book wouldn't work..

Sensei wrote:
What that means OOC is that if you can copy the relto file, you should be able to redo all the geometry and move about the objects like the closet and bookcase, while keeping all the networking that makes it relto. Above is the role-playing explanation for this. I will now return my newfound linking book to my armoire in the Batcave...

Absolutely; that method works and I've been using a customized Relto with a couple additions for a while now. I haven't totally replaced the Age because I don't have the time to create a full new Age just for that; but it'd should work just as well. Yet somehow my latest addition totally broke it and somehow even restoring the original Relto files won't fix it... :?
So I guess there's more to Relto than meets the eye; but that's another debate for another forum.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:57 am 
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If your custom Relto is crashing, my best guess is that you compiled soemthing wrong, modified a file that the game verifies for non-modification before loading (anti-hacker procedure- althoug modding your Relto online probably wouldn't do any harm, a code might be on all of the ages to prevent cheating).

IC, how the books physically work... It's hard to say at what point a book becomes 'magic' rather than just a normal book. The most logical explanation i can think of is 'magical ink' or some crud, which would certainly explain it, but that's a little insipid for Cyan's often genius writers and of course begs a whole new slew of questions- like "where does the ink come from?" or my personal favorite, "What happens if you spill it on yourself?" I know, however, that we've been shown in the ending of Myst and beginning of riven that respectively, pages can be added to books and words can modified in books. There's further reinforcement in Atrus' journal in Exile. Personally, I think we can let that one slip.

Thirdly: IC, if there's LOTS of people coming down to the cave, wouldn't you have some people setting of permanent residence in the central cavern and ancient D'ni buildings? Obviously physically represented homes in an open shard is a technical issue, but you could have apartments or something where a door takes you to your room.

Lastly: How strongly is the cannon going to be enforced now that the game is Open Source? Not only are there age writers that might break honor with it, but there's lots of people on board right now who never played Live, UU, or Uru's other online incarnations and might not know about some particular story bit that they're violating.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:24 am 
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I don't think the D'ni knew why linking books worked, only that they did and how to make them.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:25 am 
I don't think they did either. And as far as I'm concerned, it's all in the words and the language. Relto, being done at least partly in pictures, is obviously a completely different proposition from a normal D'ni Descriptive Book, so I wouldn't expect, IC, anyone who isn't Yeesha to be able to modify it successfully. OOC, of course, is a different matter...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:46 pm 
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Sensei wrote:
IC, how the books physically work... It's hard to say at what point a book becomes 'magic' rather than just a normal book. The most logical explanation i can think of is 'magical ink' or some crud, which would certainly explain it, but that's a little insipid for Cyan's often genius writers and of course begs a whole new slew of questions- like "where does the ink come from?" or my personal favorite, "What happens if you spill it on yourself?" I know, however, that we've been shown in the ending of Myst and beginning of riven that respectively, pages can be added to books and words can modified in books.

I've always been under the impression that the "ink" was a special kind extracted from a certain type of Beetle and could only work in conjuntion with a very special type of paper. Can't give you specifics other then that revolving room in Exile and the main fort in Gahreseen. I know I've read more detailed explanations elsewhere but just can't remember where right now.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:13 pm 
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The ink used and the paper the Books were made of had specific properties that were closely guarded secrets of the Guilds.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:15 am 
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Perhaps the real secret was that it didn't require special ink at all, and the Guilds just made the D'ni believe it did so that they wouldn't try to make their own books.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:07 am 
Dachannien, that's always been my contention exactly. :D:D:D Thank you!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:27 pm 
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IMHO Relto is the one and only Relto. It belongs to the storyline and canon as it is. So I wouldn't touch its central role and its uniqueness. However, I agree that its is not a very cosy place and further customization options are highly recommended - textures, gadgets, bridges etc. For example, the climbing of the mountain should be enabled. The mountain had clearly been created with mountainering in mind, but later it was never allowed. Why not to have a flag Relto-page"? - to add a customizable flag atop of the mountain? Technically it would be possible to support user-added textures (for example individual carpets at Relto). Of course, should be careful with these - in case of visitors the textures must be send to the other players.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:45 am 
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Trackmania is a good example of that sort of thing at work, actually. They allow signs which use an existing DDS DXT5 for the detail texture, but the actual sign itself can be modified, by use of a folder in which you can place JPGs. Nadeo, the developer, has great networking coders, and JPGs aren't even a slight problem to download upon loading a custom racetrack.

If you haven't guessed already, a similar technique could be used to allow the player to modify any texture of a developer's choosing- flags, shirts, carpets, books, etc. If I want my age book to look like a Dell laptop (because, mac is for noobs) then that would be very easy for even an ameture photoshopper to create. And simpler, flat textures like flags and carpets would look just fine with just about any image.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:05 am 
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NORFREN - so glad to see your name in these forums again....... :D

Quick question - several months ago I tried to revisit "Suprise in Minkata" and found all links to your beautiful age broken. Is that just temporary or is it permanent? Reason I ask is that I have in the past directed others to that thread as an example of the great creativity we have in this community. Now that I know you are still with us I'm not as worried. :wink:

PS: Will we be seeing any Ages from you when URU goes Open Source?

PPS: Sorry about changing topics......

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Last edited by Kero on Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:29 am 
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Kero

as original poster, I certainly don't mind the change of topic direction 'cos I'm a fan of Norfren's work too.

I don't know if it's what you're after, but I noticed recently that what I refer to as "Norfren's Age" has moved to http://www.gunda.hu/myages/

I'll add a bump to your question to Norfren about whether any of his (her?) work will turn up in OS Uru


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:27 pm 
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Kero wrote:
NORFREN.... :D

Quick question - several months ago I tried to revisit "Suprise in Minkata" and found all links to your beautiful age broken. Is that just temporary or is it permanent? ....


Well, I disabled the whole stuff because the spoiler tag of this forum went wrong long-long ago and they've been unable to fix it. I think that the hiding of pictures, questions and answers were quote important part of that interactive adventure and now IMHO the whole stuff is ruined. I thought that perhaps it would be good to compile the whole thing into a point-and-click type adventure, but it is already not the same... and it needs time... Or do you think should I enable it again in its present state?

[spoiler=Does spoiler tag work?]Unfortunately not.[/spoiler]

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